AJ Klein Expected to Sign with Bills

[boyst]

Told ya all this last month. 😘

[5ths the charm]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Klein is better than Dodson and has shown to be able to play both LB spots in a pinch.  Beane has probably realized McDermott screwed him by recommending Bernard.  Now he needs insurance if they cant get the MLB they want in the draft or it allows Beane to package some of his draft picks to move up and get the player he wants.  He knows he needs MLB, WR, and OT in this draft but if he is targeting a certain player WR or Robinson perhaps he likely will have to give up one of his Day 2 picks to move up.  

How do you know McD picked Bernard, maybe our "scouts" and Leslie were the ones who cried for the guy.

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Why would we have a cap penalty to move on from Klein?  He's likely to have been signed to a vet minimum contract - or has something come out that I missed?  He had vet minimum from the Ravens and then from the Bills last year.

 

What better options are there in FA at his price point?

 

I don't think that signing Klein will preclude the Bills from drafting a player.  The guy is gonna be 32 years old; he's not their future at LB, he's not a guy you want to count on to take 100% of the snaps almost every game like Edmunds did.  He's likely to be a situational player and a backup.

 

I disagree that he's "just not a good player".  He's nowhere near the athleticism or the coverage skills of Milano or Edmunds, but he's a student of the game who makes up for his lack of elite physical tools with his knowledge of the game.  And he can hit hard enough to knock a player back to Friday.

 

 

I'm chill with wanting someone else, but if Klein signed for more than ~ vet minimum, I'll be surprised.

So who else at that price point in FA?

I have no problem with him wanting someone else.  I hated him at one point but I think he’s proven to be a sound LB and a great backup. I didn’t think we missed much when he was filling in. 
 

like you alluded too, it’s all about the price tag and I’m confidant it won’t be very much.  We’ll have to wait and see what these other FA eventually sign for to see if we could’ve afforded better

[John from Riverside]

This is a typical bean move and not a bad one

 

Fill the position with a veteran

 

Don’t pigeonhole yourself

 

Maybe the bills like somebody like Jack Campbell but they just don’t like him at 27

 

Any time you wait till the second round or you attempt to trade down? There’s always a bit of uncertainty.

 

At least you have a player that you know could start week one at the position people are going to have their own thoughts on how good he actually is and that’s fine

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Hi, "two years ago" can be ambiguous, but if you're talking about the 2021 Oct KC game which we won 38-20, Klein was playing for Milano, not for Edmunds - Tremaine played 100% of the snaps. 

 

It stuck in my mind because that was an interesting game for the Bills defensively.  Klein played 63% of the snaps, but we actually played a fair amount of Dime with Siran Neal coming in.  IIRC we were mixing up the blitzes and the defensive fronts pretty well in that game as well. 

 

Klein has played MLB for us in several games though - two later in the 2021 season (win vs Jets, very bad drubbing vs. Colts) and the game vs. Detroit last season.  Results have been mixed, but I think if they had to rely on him for a stretch of games they would adjust, just as they adjusted in 2020 when Klein initially tried to play for Milano and it went...badly...but after the defensive brain trust got the flick that they couldn't just plug him in and adjusted the scheme, Klein won DPOW.

I am aware of all this.. Klien gave us physicality at the line even Milano can not. THAT is why it worked out. 

[Beck Water]

23 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I am aware of all this.. Klien gave us physicality at the line even Milano can not. THAT is why it worked out. 

 

No argument that Klein was a very physical player in that game, but the post to which you were responding was asking about Klein playing MLB.

Klein did not play MLB in that game. 

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Hi, "two years ago" can be ambiguous, but if you're talking about the 2021 Oct KC game which we won 38-20, Klein was playing for Milano, not for Edmunds - Tremaine played 100% of the snaps. 

 

It stuck in my mind because that was an interesting game for the Bills defensively.  Klein played 63% of the snaps, but we actually played a fair amount of Dime with Siran Neal coming in.  IIRC we were mixing up the blitzes and the defensive fronts pretty well in that game as well. 

 

Klein has played MLB for us in several games though - two later in the 2021 season (win vs Jets, very bad drubbing vs. Colts) and the game vs. Detroit last season.  Results have been mixed, but I think if they had to rely on him for a stretch of games they would adjust, just as they adjusted in 2020 when Klein initially tried to play for Milano and it went...badly...but after the defensive brain trust got the flick that they couldn't just plug him in and adjusted the scheme, Klein won DPOW.

 

The bolded is especially intriguing, in that I really covet those games (that seem too few and far between) since 2017 when the Bills successfully employed creative gameplans tailored to stop specific opponents. I am especially curious if we might now see MORE of such opponent-specific personnel groupings, alignments, and schemes? Feels like when it mattered most (in the playoffs recently and just recently in general) the Bills fell back into predictable, passive defenses. You need ELITE talent to beat good QBs who know what's coming. 

 

Times when the Bills did things differently (and effectively):

The 2017 Jacksonville playoff game sticks in my mind as it felt to me like Lorenzo Alexander was a revelation at MLB. Just an absolute beast. The perfect guy for that opponent, that game. Left me wanting more.

 

The San Fran primetime game from 2020, where the Bills played a lot of 46-defense, with Klein lining up in the middle as the only off-ball LB. If I'm remembering accurately. Def a ton of 5 and 6-man fronts. Huge departure for them. 

 

The quoted stuff about Klein and the learning curve to figuring out how to best use him (attacking downhill, something Edmunds just was NOT good at).  

 

Similarly, I recall in the Patriots MNF blizzard, McD, knowing the Pats were only running, took Milano aside and was seen pantomiming how to attack the run gaps. Milano then made consecutive TFLs, if memory serves. (Might have been only one TFL and another solid play.)

 

That's a lame list of competent defensive gameplans/adjustments, but I like to imagine that kind of aggressively tailored approach to specific opponents becoming more common. What a world that would be. 

 

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I have no problem with him wanting someone else.

 

I kind of would have liked for us to make a bigger push for Lavonte David.  1 year, $4.5M-ish is definitely something we could have afforded and that guy can Ball.  But who knows what all went into David's decision to re-up with the Bucs....next season will be his 12 with that team.  He's married, kid, family is from S. Florida.

 

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

like you alluded too, it’s all about the price tag and I’m confidant it won’t be very much.  We’ll have to wait and see what these other FA eventually sign for to see if we could’ve afforded better

 

So which FA LB who are still out there would you prefer?
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/inside-linebacker/all/

I can't claim intimate familiarity with every name on that list, but overall find it uninspiring.  Zach Cunningham was benched in Houston, struggled with injuries and was outplayed by Dylan Cole (who just signed for $1.2M).  Deion Jones was a very good LB in his prime, but people I know who watch the Browns say he was playing with 1 arm last season in Cleveland, really struggling.  Myles Jack seems to be struggling with his knees.  Kwon Alexander was a Beast in his day, but he's really struggled with injuries - last year with the Jets was the first time he's played a full season since 2016, and he only played about 50% of the snaps.  Jarred Davis didn't play well enough as a 1st round pick to earn a 2nd contract from the Lions - I guess he struggled with injuries? and has been bouncing around different teams and spending time on practice squads.  No thanks.

 

Van Noy of course was a very good player once upon a time, I thought he was primarily an OLB most of his career and that he was kind of disappointing for the Chargers last season?  Nick Kwiatkowski I thought was a good player with the Raiders a couple years back - he got beat out for starting ILB on the Bears, but the guy who beat him out was Roquan Smith.  But he hasn't managed to crack the starting lineup since 2020.

I don't know much about the 3 FA LB from LV - Corey LIttleton, Jayon Brown, and Micah Kiser.  No scratch that, I know nothing.  Ditto Neville Hewitt from Hou.

 

Anyway, I thought it was a sort of uninspiring remaining list.  Not sure I see anyone on there I'd be enthused about as an upgrade over what Klein has actually contributed as a Bill the last 3 seasons.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Beck Water

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, 5ths the charm said:

How do you know McD picked Bernard, maybe our "scouts" and Leslie were the ones who cried for the guy.

Yeah at this point I don't know who's picking who?  McD, Beane, Frazier,  confused scouts?  Whoever is missing on these picks needs to stop.....Now!....I'm terrified we'll waste Josh.

[Norcalbillsfan]

"we're sorry, we want you back... again, but this time its different"

- mcd and beane the toxic ex girlfriends of kleins career

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

Problem is these guys have been part of a D that has given up over 100 points in 3 playoff loses. You don’t play playoff teams every week in regular season, you definitely don’t play elite teams every week. This group gotta get better to get to the Super Bowl and signing the same players every year and having our rookies sit on the bench with limited playing time does not make us better. For what Beane has invested in the D, the group has not improved. So Continuing to bring back the same guys is starting to make no sense to me. 

I hear where you’re coming from, but two things:

 

1) We’re hoping they go offense early, maybe often.   Year 2 of Kromer, hopefully better weapons and better OL talent around Allen. 
 

2) The defense will rely on a few things .. and those aren’t, and shouldn’t be, more investment..  

 

-Von back healthy

-Hyde back healthy 

-White back healthy

-Poyer back healthy

-Elam Year 2 jump

-Rousseau Year 3 jump

-Oliver contract year 

-Epenesa contract year 

 

A top 5 regular season defense has done nothing for us in the postseason.   We now have a change from Frazier to McDermott and have to hope that we don’t keep getting hit with the injury bug at key positions. 
 

Im perfectly content banking on investments already made for the Defense.  Klein is good depth and a serviceable starter if the young guys can’t hang, given the level of investment everywhere else (especially once Von is back). 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, 5ths the charm said:

How do you know McD picked Bernard, maybe our "scouts" and Leslie were the ones who cried for the guy.

 

Thank you!  His draft choices of Edmunds and Allen notwithstanding, Beane, in particular, has a thing for undersized smart hard-working players "it's the size of the fight in the dog, not the size of the dog in the fight" mindset. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

This is a typical bean move and not a bad one

 

Fill the position with a veteran

 

Don’t pigeonhole yourself

 

Maybe the bills like somebody like Jack Campbell but they just don’t like him at 27

 

Any time you wait till the second round or you attempt to trade down? There’s always a bit of uncertainty.

 

At least you have a player that you know could start week one at the position people are going to have their own thoughts on how good he actually is and that’s fine

McDermott move.

2 hours ago, 5ths the charm said:

How do you know McD picked Bernard, maybe our "scouts" and Leslie were the ones who cried for the guy.

Watch McDermott talk about his relationship with Dave Aranda. He said when Aranda speaks he listens when discussing Bernard after the draft.

[Beck Water]

53 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

The San Fran primetime game from 2020, where the Bills played a lot of 46-defense, with Klein lining up in the middle as the only off-ball LB. If I'm remembering accurately. Def a ton of 5 and 6-man fronts. Huge departure for them. 

 

I'm not sure that's the game you're thinking of, since a glance at the box score shows Edmunds and Taron Johnson played 100% of the snaps that game.  Klein split time with Milano (coming back from torn pec)

 

53 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

That's a lame list of competent defensive gameplans/adjustments, but I like to imagine that kind of aggressively tailored approach to specific opponents becoming more common. What a world that would be.

 

I think we did a pretty innovative defensive gameplan against the Chiefs last season, using Milano as a spy to contain Mahomes.  I vaguely recall I thought we had some wrinkles against Tennessee last season as well, though I can't remember what - 5 and 6 man fronts there?

 

One thing to remember is that throughout the regular season, our regular D has been pretty good most of the time, and has gotten the job done.  So there hasn't been the need to attack other teams with specific tailored plans.  But, one thing I have noted is that where the plan we come in with hasn't worked, Frazier seemed slow to adjust.  He actually said that in an interview at one point, something to the effect that he doesn't like to change the defensive game plan too quickly because he doesn't want the players to lose confidence in what they practiced all week.  I'm not a football player but I thought it was a weird comment, if you're a player who is getting his ass kicked because the plan you practiced is getting shredded, wouldn't you have more confidence not less if your coaches asked you to try something different?

 

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Watch McDermott talk about his relationship with Dave Aranda. He said when Aranda speaks he listens when discussing Bernard after the draft.

 

Got a link for that?

Edited April 17, 2023 by Beck Water

[Buffalo_Stampede]

16 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

 

Got a link for that?

20:00 minutes in. He talks Dave Aranda and the Bernard pick.
 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Richard Noggin]

57 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

The San Fran primetime game from 2020, where the Bills played a lot of 46-defense, with Klein lining up in the middle as the only off-ball LB. If I'm remembering accurately. Def a ton of 5 and 6-man fronts. Huge departure for them. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm not sure that's the game you're thinking of, since a glance at the box score shows Edmunds and Taron Johnson played 100% of the snaps that game.  Klein split time with Milano (coming back from torn pec)

 

One thing to remember is that throughout the regular season, our regular D has been pretty good most of the time, and has gotten the job done.  So there hasn't been the need to attack other teams with specific tailored plans.  But, one thing I have noted is that where the plan we come in with hasn't worked, Frazier seemed slow to adjust.  He actually said that in an interview at one point, something to the effect that he doesn't like to change the defensive game plan too quickly because he doesn't want the players to lose confidence in what they practiced all week.  I'm not a football player but I thought it was a weird comment, if you're a player who is getting his ass kicked because the plan you practiced is getting shredded, wouldn't you have more confidence not less if your coaches asked you to try something different?

 

 

As for the bolded reply to my 2020 San Fran observation, Edmunds DEFINITELY played, but on early downs was lined up a bunch on the edge in a 2-pt stance. On those plays, Klein was the off-ball MLB (he played 69% of snaps). 

 

As for the nonbolded paragraph on competing philosophies (keeping it simple to improve execution versus mixing it up to attack specific opponents), I tend to agree that the Bills probably mix it up on D a little more than many of us see, AND that during the regular season they have had a TON of success playing a core scheme...BUT we probably agree that this approach hasn't gotten it done when it matters most. 

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

No argument that Klein was a very physical player in that game, but the post to which you were responding was asking about Klein playing MLB.

Klein did not play MLB in that game. 

who has said we were going to play him at MLB?

[davefan66]

Like Klein. Wasn’t surprised he was cut last season, but would have rather of kept him.  Happy to have him back.

 

I’d guess the contract is team friendly if they are able to find an upgrade over Klein via the draft or FA.  Don’t see this as an imminent, feel they like him enough to ride him for the season.

[Sierra Foothills]

7 hours ago, boyst said:

Told ya all this last month. 😘

 

Yes, the return of AJ Klein, Shaq Lawson, and Jordan Phillips were not in the least surprising and in fact expected by many on this board. Moreover if these three can stay healthy and play to their expected levels they will be good signings. Staying healthy will be the key.

 

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

So which FA LB who are still out there would you prefer?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/inside-linebacker/all/

I can't claim intimate familiarity with every name on that list, but overall find it uninspiring.  Zach Cunningham was benched in Houston, struggled with injuries and was outplayed by Dylan Cole (who just signed for $1.2M).  Deion Jones was a very good LB in his prime, but people I know who watch the Browns say he was playing with 1 arm last season in Cleveland, really struggling.  Myles Jack seems to be struggling with his knees.  Kwon Alexander was a Beast in his day, but he's really struggled with injuries - last year with the Jets was the first time he's played a full season since 2016, and he only played about 50% of the snaps.  Jarred Davis didn't play well enough as a 1st round pick to earn a 2nd contract from the Lions - I guess he struggled with injuries? and has been bouncing around different teams and spending time on practice squads.  No thanks.

 

Van Noy of course was a very good player once upon a time, I thought he was primarily an OLB most of his career and that he was kind of disappointing for the Chargers last season?  Nick Kwiatkowski I thought was a good player with the Raiders a couple years back - he got beat out for starting ILB on the Bears, but the guy who beat him out was Roquan Smith.  But he hasn't managed to crack the starting lineup since 2020.

I don't know much about the 3 FA LB from LV - Corey LIttleton, Jayon Brown, and Micah Kiser.  No scratch that, I know nothing.  Ditto Neville Hewitt from Hou.

 

Anyway, I thought it was a sort of uninspiring remaining list.  Not sure I see anyone on there I'd be enthused about as an upgrade over what Klein has actually contributed as a Bill the last 3 seasons.

 

 

Yes, for the money that Klein has played under as a Buffalo Bill he's always been an excellent value and an asset to the team.

 

I tend to doubt the acumen of those who feel otherwise.

 

Klein epitomizes the expression "a good pro" and all winning organizations need players like him who can be counted on to bring acumen, toughness, and competence to their position group.

 

None of the "known names" in the bargain bin inspire any belief that they would be an upgrade over Klein and the only type of signing that might possibly end up being an upgrade would be a speculative pick on a player analogous to Kevin Jarvis, the offensive lineman the Bills signed two days ago.

 

 

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

A top 5 regular season defense has done nothing for us in the postseason.   We now have a change from Frazier to McDermott and have to hope that we don’t keep getting hit with the injury bug at key positions. 

I still think the easiest fix is just a healthy Von Miller as getting home with four works no matter who is calling plays.  Von made the plays that won us the Chiefs game and probably the Ravens game.  We were not the same dominant team when he went down in Detroit.  The rest of the D-line was better when he was in there.  I maintain that if he stayed healthy all of last year we win the Super Bowl.  Same goes for this year if he's back to his old self after the ACL tear.