A Question That Has Haunted Me - What If 2017 Draft Was Different By That Trade Back ?

[MJS]

McDermott wanted Beane to get there to have a full scouting season evaluating QB's before picking one for the franchise. QB was not on the table for the Bills in 2017.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

It’s hard to give credit when the competition was not complete. When I said the NFL was more established I wasn’t implying that the NFL team would win if they’d played. I was implying there were more talent on that side as it was more established. So you can’t expect most Bills fans to be comforted by those distant championships from a bygone era when the Bills keep getting knocked out every January. That’s why Romo’s ill advised moniker ‘Mr. January’ for Allen during the WC around was very cringey. Takes on a whole different unintended meaning when you keep losing. 

 👍

 

Allen keeps losing?  Are you still trying to tie "13 seconds" to Allen? 

[colin]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

So you’re saying Henne could’ve won those Superbowls for KC? As for Mahomes looking lost after his OL got hurt…was this the season they thrashed us in the AFCCG (‘20-‘21) or the season he broke all Bills fans hearts in 13 sec (‘21-‘22)? Cuz he didn’t looked very lost in those games. He did struggled in the Superbowl against TB when 4 starting linemen were out. I guess that’s what you meant?

 

no, silly!  i meant what i wrote!

 

it's pretty clear he's got a much better team around him, especially on O, and he's gone down a few times and his back up nobody QB has gotten production.  

 

why are you working so hard to put words in my mouth?  such a cheeky lil rascal!

[LeGOATski]

I have to wonder if Mahomes' brother and/or Mom came with him to his interview with the Bills.

[T master]

On 4/15/2023 at 7:26 PM, machine gun kelly said:

T, enough on the what if in 2017.  If you truly love Josh, moving on that’s it.  No rethinking every decision they’ve ever made and Whaley was fired the day after draft day and brake was hired immediately.  If you do t think beane was talking under the radar with McD who hand picked him, we’ll.

 

josh Super Allen is our leader and is who is best for Buffalo.  We have lots of other opportunities to improve and no argument from me.

 

it’s certainly not Josh as the problem.  I’ll take him over Mahomes anyday and that doesn’t mean I do t think Mahones is the best outside of Josh.

 

Josh will impress you but maybe 15 years will need you to be impressed.

 

Dam ya'll are pretty harsh ! I started the post with I'm ecstatic that we have Josh but i guess y'all either forgot to read that part or something

 

It was just one of those I WONDER type of posts & y'all act like the entire post was like i was slamming Josh saying he was a POS type of QB or something like he's no better than Peterman was .

 

Some people got it one said that if Josh was with the staff that the chiefs have they'd be even better than they are now especially with Andy Reid leading the way then there are those that think i am cusifying Josh 

 

I think y'all are a bit sensitive or something dam ...

[90sBills]

49 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Allen keeps losing?  Are you still trying to tie "13 seconds" to Allen? 

Do you think when people look at results of each year’s playoffs that they’d dig into the minutiae of all the games and look for excuses? Or do they simply form narratives based on results of those games. Whatever your personal reasoning is, and we all have them, Bills have lost in the playoffs. Knocked out every January. The qb gets a big portion of the credit when a team does well so conversely the qb also takes majority of the blame. That’s why they get paid the big bucks.

 

Some of you can’t or won’t tie Allen to the Bills when critiquing the team. He is a big part of this team. Its leader. When goals aren’t met leaders get blamed. He is very talented but far from a finished product. He has to improve along with the team to get to the next level. 

[2003Contenders]

Just some random thoughts and why no one should be "haunted" about that trade back in 2017.

 

First and foremost, even if the Bills had stayed at 10, they were not drafting Mahomes. Whaley was on the way out and the new regime did not want to entrust him with making the pick at QB. (Reportedly Whaley was enamored with Watson, whereas the Pegulas loved Mahomes.)  When the Bills were on the clock at 10 they reportedly were prepared to draft Lattimore if the trade had not materialized.

 

Mahomes is a generational talent -- but he had the luxury of having a red shirt year sitting behind a professional veteran in Alex Smith. He was also blessed with one of the all time great play callers in Andy Reid as his head coach and a very good supporting cast. I do wonder what trajectory his career would have taken on if he had played on the same Bills squad that Josh did in 2018 with no mentor at QB, a horrific OL and garbage at WR?

Edited April 17, 2023 by 2003Contenders

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, colin said:

 

no, silly!  i meant what i wrote!

 

it's pretty clear he's got a much better team around him, especially on O, and he's gone down a few times and his back up nobody QB has gotten production.  

 

why are you working so hard to put words in my mouth?  such a cheeky lil rascal!

I think we have very different definitions of working hard. 😂 

 

Bills overall receiving corp was better than Chiefs this past season. It’s not like Bills are devoid of talent. Davis would be WR1 in KC right now. 

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

Dam ya'll are pretty harsh ! I started the post with I'm ecstatic that we have Josh but i guess y'all either forgot to read that part or something

 

It was just one of those I WONDER type of posts & y'all act like the entire post was like i was slamming Josh saying he was a POS type of QB or something like he's no better than Peterman was .

 

Some people got it one said that if Josh was with the staff that the chiefs have they'd be even better than they are now especially with Andy Reid leading the way then there are those that think i am cusifying Josh 

 

I think y'all are a bit sensitive or something dam ...

You did the unthinkable for most on this board. Implying, hinting, thinking (as fleeting as it may be) that Mahomes might have done better for the Bills if he was drafted by the Bills. Triggered topic around here for sure. 😅

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Yeah sure. That’s the same hollow record as the Herbert one with best stats first 2 yrs starting blah blah. Both are possible because of a technicality. Which, of course, was Mahomes sitting out his first year. If you took Mahomes’ 1st 5 Starting years it’s not even close. There’s a reason he has won 2 league MVPs and our guy hasn’t right?

 

But that should not be the focus for Bills fans. Mahomes is great for KC. Awesome. Allen is very good as well. Let’s see if he can take that next step and win a 🏆 

Allen is not just “very good.” He will be a HOFer when it’s all said & done regardless of a ring. Also, It takes a team to win a championship along w/ good coaching, drafting, LUCK, etc. it’s totally unfair to put it all on the QB. KC has simply been better in all those those other facets. Put Allen on those teams and I’m sure he would have at least 1 ring. I could care less about MVP awards and other accolades. How has that fared for Lamar Jackson and countless other MVPs/Heisman winners? 

Edited April 17, 2023 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Do you think when people look at results of each year’s playoffs that they’d dig into the minutiae of all the games and look for excuses? Or do they simply form narratives based on results of those games. Whatever your personal reasoning is, and we all have them, Bills have lost in the playoffs. Knocked out every January. The qb gets a big portion of the credit when a team does well so conversely the qb also takes majority of the blame. That’s why they get paid the big bucks.

 

Some of you can’t or won’t tie Allen to the Bills when critiquing the team. He is a big part of this team. Its leader. When goals aren’t met leaders get blamed. He is very talented but far from a finished product. He has to improve along with the team to get to the next level. 

I don't care what other people think, particularly other teams fans. I'm confident that any fan with a brain when looking at Allen's performance in the 2021 season playoffs are awe struck. 

 

And if I'm going to assign blame for the Bills exits from the playoffs the last 3seasons Allen would be dead last on any such list. The real question is why do you and other Bills "fans" insist that Allen is playing a big role in these season ending losses? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I dont think anyone has made the connection until now.

it really makes you think 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I don't care what other people think, particularly other teams fans. I'm confident that any fan with a brain when looking at Allen's performance in the 2021 season playoffs are awe struck. 

 

And if I'm going to assign blame for the Bills exits from the playoffs the last 3seasons Allen would be dead last on any such list. The real question is why do you and other Bills "fans" insist that Allen is playing a big role in these season ending losses? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Allen was great during the 13 sec game…in a losing effort. That game was 2 seasons ago now. He hasn’t played up to that level in postseason since. This past wc playoff he single-handedly brought the Dolphins back into the game with his turnovers. If the Dolphins won that game he could’ve been mvp for them. Bills should’ve won going away. In the Cincy game he was really disappointing. You can’t score 10pts in the playoffs as an elite qb. You just can’t. There were plays to be made if you watch the game over. He just didn’t make them.

 

Yes, I and a minority of others, hold him accountable as much as the rest of the team. You seem to think the only way to be real fans is to say he can do no wrong and is the most talented ever. 

 

 

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Allen is not just “very good.” He will be a HOFer when it’s all said & done regardless of a ring. Also, It takes a team to win a championship along w/ good coaching, drafting, LUCK, etc. it’s totally unfair to put it all on the QB. KC has simply been better in all those those other facets. Put Allen on those teams and I’m sure he would have at least 1 ring. I could care less about MVP awards and other accolades. How has that fared for Lamar Jackson and countless other MVPs/Heisman winners? 

I’m only bringing up the accolades because you questioned Mahomes having the most accomplished start to a career for the position. It isn’t even debatable at this point.

 

Allen is very talented but hof will remain to be seen without a Lombardi. Right now he’s on the Phillip Rivers career track. 

[BananaB]

I’m pretty happy with Josh, he’s Buffalo. Pats two sidekicks would never of fit in here, and I doubt he would have left them behind. He’s lucky he was drafted to a team that was winning 10+‘games a year with Alex Smith, basically the dream situation for any young QB. 

[97bills]

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

A coach can make all the plays he wants.  He needs a great QB to execute it.  Mahomes made those clutch plays in those 17 seconds to get them to FG range, just like how Allen ran over those KC defenders in the regular season game.    Mahomes makes a little more plays than Allen right now.  Hopefully, the script will be flipped this year.   

 

A few years ago, the Bengals HC Taylor, was a laughing stock in the NFL...However, once he got Burrows he is not the real QB whisperer....give credit to Burrows.

 

If you want to say mahomes makes a few more plays then Allen ok. I can live with that, but you better believe having Andy Reid helps a lot. When you have two teams both with good talent, play calling and drawing up plays. Can definitely be the deciding factor. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

56 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I’m only bringing up the accolades because you questioned Mahomes having the most accomplished start to a career for the position. It isn’t even debatable at this point.

 

Allen is very talented but hof will remain to be seen without a Lombardi. Right now he’s on the Phillip Rivers career track. 

Should dump him while his value is high!!!  Go back to QB purgatory where the few of you thrive on misery!

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

Allen was great during the 13 sec game…in a losing effort. That game was 2 seasons ago now. He hasn’t played up to that level in postseason since. This past wc playoff he single-handedly brought the Dolphins back into the game with his turnovers. If the Dolphins won that game he could’ve been mvp for them. Bills should’ve won going away. In the Cincy game he was really disappointing. You can’t score 10pts in the playoffs as an elite qb. You just can’t. There were plays to be made if you watch the game over. He just didn’t make them.

 

Yes, I and a minority of others, hold him accountable as much as the rest of the team. You seem to think the only way to be real fans is to say he can do no wrong and is the most talented ever. 

 

 

You act like the "13 seconds" game against KC was a long time ago. It was one season ago. 

 

The idea that Allen "single handedly brought the Dolphins back into the game" is ludicrous. The Bills as a team rushed out to a big lead and then got sloppy, including Allen, letting the Dolphins back into the game.  To say Allen would have been the Dolphins "mvp" if they had won the game is laughable.  Sure Allen had 3 TO's but he also had 352 yards passing, 3 passing TD's had another passing TD dropped and a perfectly thrown 55 yard completion dropped. 

 

Was Jim Kelly an elite QB?  I think the answer is obviously yes but in an AFC championship game at Rich Stadium he and the Bills O were held to no TD's & 3 points. And is Mahomes elite? Because in the SB loss to TB he was held to no TD's and 3 FG's.  I could go on but you get it.

 

Are you really a Bills fan?  Sure criticizing Allen doesn't preclude someone from being a Bills fan but the degree to which you attack Allen is over the top and there's no way a real fan throws the stuff out that you do.

 

And for the record what you're posting is not holding Allen accountable.  It's nitpicking the guy to death.  And while you do this you  ignore the reality that without him at QB the Bills are not even a 500 team let alone a yearly division winner and playoff team.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The 9 Isles]

Mahomes and Kelce and Andy Reid are a match made in heaven. 
 

I wish Mahomes had gone to Jacksonville or Chicago, he probably would’ve been benched at some point and the Chiefs wouldn’t have to torment the AFC every year. 

[JohnNord]

On 4/15/2023 at 8:10 PM, T master said:

Okay let me first say that i am ecstatic that we have Josh Allen as our QB he fits exactly what the Bills are in most every way a guy that had to work & is still working to be the best version of himself every year not only for the Bills but the community yet i have often wondered or had this question of what if ?

 

In 2017 the Bills got a really good player in the first round of the draft & i understand why they traded away there pick to the Chiefs to add draft capital to add other picks & even though Tre White has been a really good player taken in the 1st for the Bills just what would the Bills look like if they would have kept that pick instead of trading it & drafted Mahomes ? 🤔

 

Has any on else here ever wondered just what might have been if that would have taken place ? Also i wonder the thoughts of those in charge of that draft about Mahomes did they think he wasn't that good or was there something they heard in a interview that they didn't like ?

 

In 2017 that was the year before Beane came here correct ? Whaley was still the GM at the time or am i thinking wrong, i know we got Josh in 2018 which again i am very glad of he is a beast but this question has alway haunted me in some ways would the Bills now have 2 SB's under their belt if that would have happened ?

 

Or in part is the reason why Mahomes is so good is because of the leadership of the offensive guru that is Andy Reid ? I know this is a question that would only be answered if we had a crystal ball to see what the change would be like but was wondering if you all have thought this as i have .

 

I know we all have had thoughts in the past of why certain players were passed over & hind sight is definitely 20/20 to all the arm chair QB's in the Bills mafia but after seeing what Mahomes has been able to do in the relatively short time he has been in the NFL i ask the "What IF" question & wonder if any here have done the same ? 

Like you said, you can do this with so many players.  To add fuel to the fire I remember reading an article from Tyler Dunne where he said Terry loved Mahomes 🤣

The bigger question is, should Terry have fired Whaley along with Rex?  Because the whole situation in the winter of 2017 was not ideal in anyway for the Bills.  

 

The entire Whaley/Russ Brandon/Scott Berchtold regime was filled with leaks to the media.   McDermott wisely didn’t trust any of the incumbents and he was given the autonomy from Terry to make any change after a complete evaluation.

 

I get the impressions that Terry was advised not to fire the GM until after the draft, as there’s a thought that you don’t want your scouts/GM sharing.  It’s also hard to hire a new scouting staff and GM in January and then do all the personnel/scouting stuff but it has been done before.  
 

From McDermott’s perspective he 100% made the right call.  You sometimes only get one shot at a franchise QB.  Rather than taking a gamble on intel from the lame duck, untrustworthy GM, he stuck to what he knew - defensive backs.   He found an All-Pro and also received a #1 pick to help draft his franchise QB so I’d say it worked out.  
 

It does make you wonder if Beane gets hired along with McDermott in 2017, if they take the big swing to draft Mahomes or Watson and start “the process” a year earlier.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Billl]

10 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I dont think anyone has made the connection until now.

Right?  Like, have you ever wondered “what if” about that Norwood kick against the Giants?  In a weird way, I feel like the Buffalo Bills would have won the Super Bowl that year.