Does US NOT want peace in Ukraine?

[Tommy Callahan]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Wrong- Russia is actively cozying up to China and China just got France to say Taiwan isn’t their concern after a cozy meeting with Marcone…

 

don’t any of you pretenders pay attention past the orange man headlines?? Ugh

from the way they comment. it seems most of the media they get info from, just reports on what fox is talking about or the orange dude.

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Chris farley said:

from the way they comment. it seems most of the media they get info from, just reports on what fox is talking about or the orange dude.

 

 

I’ve seen this spate of fairly recent absurdity where fox reports on dumb things cnn or msnbc said and the later two do the inverse. It’s the entire tv News cycle at this point.

 

here it is even from the naive cesspools the left sheep know and love.  just the past few days… 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/12/opinion/biden-foreign-policy-china-russia.html

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-could-become-china-s-economic-colony-cia-director-says/ar-AA19MCne

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-march-trade-with-russia-was-robust-despite-weak-global-outlook-2023-04-13/

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-china-fm-attend-high-level-conference-on-afghanistan/ar-AA19OIf1

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

15 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’ve seen this spate of fairly recent absurdity where fox reports on dumb things cnn or msnbc said and the later two do the inverse. It’s the entire tv News cycle at this point.

 

here it is even from the naive cesspools the left sheep know and love.  just the past few days… 

 

Do I get included in the "left sheep" category because I pointed out that a sex offender on the staff of Russia Today is an unreliable source?  When it's obvious the thread author thinks sex offenders on the staff of Russia Today have meaningful opinions? 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Coffeesforclosers

[ChiGoose]

40 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

So the US/Ukrainian Goal is to go back to pre 2014 (euro maiden) borders?  at least someone is saying what the goal would be.  While the leaked papers showed moves into Russia as part of the offensive, to create a buffer zone the same size as the disputed regions in Ukraine.

 

 

Ukraine has publicly stated that their goal is to restore their original borders from before the 2014 invasion. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

17 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Do I get included in the "left sheep" category because I pointed out that a sex offender on the staff of Russia Today is an unreliable source?  When it's obvious the thread author thinks sex offenders on the staff of Russia Today have meaningful opinions? 

Well, attacking the source instead of the argument is a typical sheep move. 

But tell me about this sex offender… I don’t know the story. Was this dude convicted of a sex offense?  And is it the case that conviction of these sorts should unequivocally result in dismissing credibility? I’m open to it provided it’s the standard. 

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

15 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Well, attacking the source instead of the argument is a typical sheep move. 

But tell me about this sex offender… I don’t know the story. Was this dude convicted of a sex offense?  And is it the case that conviction of these sorts should unequivocally result in dismissing credibility? I’m open to it provided it’s the standard. 

 

 

Interesting. I dont think it's an Ad Hominem attack to disregard anything said by someone who works for a propaganda ministry. That in itself is disqualifying, but I'm interested in your thoughts to the contrary.

 

Check Ritter's wiki page. He's a character. 

[Tiberius]

So the guy who leaked the classified info was a gun enthusiast? 

 

From the Wash Post article: 

 

In a video seen by The Post, the man who the member said is OG stands at a shooting range, wearing safety glasses and ear coverings and holding a large rifle. He yells a series of racial and antisemitic slurs into the camera, then fires several rounds at a target.

The member seemed drawn to OG’s bravado and his skill with weapons. He felt a certain kinship with a man he described as “like an uncle” and, on another occasion, as a father figure.

“I was one of the very few people in the server that was able to understand that these [documents] were legitimate,” the member said, setting himself apart from the others who mostly ignored OG’s posts.

“It felt like I was on top of Mount Everest,” he said. “I felt like I was above everyone else to some degree and that … I knew stuff that they didn’t.”

[Tiberius]

He's MAGA

 

But OG had a dark view of the government. The young member said he spoke of the United States, and particularly law enforcement and the intelligence community, as a sinister force that sought to suppress its citizens and keep them in the dark. He ranted about “government overreach.”

OG told his online companions that the government hid horrible truths from the public. He claimed, according to the members, that the government knew in advance that a white supremacist intended to go on a shooting rampage at a Buffalo supermarket in May 2022. The attack left 10 dead, all of them Black, and wounded three more. OG said federal law enforcement officials let the killings proceed so they could argue for increased funding, a baseless notion that the member said he believes and considers an example of OG’s penetrating insights about the depth of government corruption.

[BillStime]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

If you set aside this guy and just read a couple newspapers, even the corrupt party mouthpiece ones buried in the back, it’s obvious Russia and China are diplomatically out-flanking our foreign policy and overtaking some old us alliances at an alarming pace. 
 

The foreign policy landscape change in this administration is the worst in a  long time. 
 

 

 

Yeah. sure.

 

 

 

[OrangeBills]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

 

Yeah, REAL leaders stay on Mar-A-Lago's golf course sucking down diet coke. 

 

China maybe, but Russia? What "alliances" are Russia forging? Even China is distancing itself from Putin. The only ones still with them are Iran and North Korea. 

 

You are missing A LOT of what's being lined up here.  Don't fall for the "friction" between Russia & China, there is none.  That is all a mirage to hide what's actually happening.  The BRICs are aligning to eliminate the PetroDollar and destroy the US Reserve Currency construct (Brazil is in China today talking about shifting from US$).

 

You may not have an appreciation for how important that is, but it doesn't mean it won't dramatically affect you when it does happen. 

 

This is the worst possible Administration hitting at the exact wrong time, unfortunately.

[The Frankish Reich]

16 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Furthermore, the only reason the war is still going on is because it seems the US and it’s NATO allies keep funding it, to the detriment of the Ukrainian population…

I couldn’t agree more. On a related point: the only reason WWII in Europe went on so long was the bullheaded insistence of Churchill and FDR to keep fighting the fight the French/Dutch/Belgians gave up on, to the detriment of their fine countries. On another related point: the only reason the Cold War went on so long was the mulish devotion of men like Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, and Reagan who didn’t see the wisdom in simply letting the Soviet Union have all of Eastern Europe, thereby depriving hose fine people of the brilliance of their Russian overlords. 
Thank you for this remarkable insight. You may have just brought us peace in our day. 

[Tommy Callahan]

Dont know about the US. But in here, all over social media are people on the left, rabidly supporting the "War" in Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Irv]

10 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Don't know about the US. But in here, all over social media are people on the left, rabidly supporting the "War" in Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ukraine is the perfect tool for Demented Biden supporters to distract the masses from the domestic mess they've created with their experiments.  What a mess.  Sad.      

[Tiberius]

18 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Dont know about the US. But in here, all over social media are people on the left, rabidly supporting the "War" in Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And winning. You are supporting Putin, so you go 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Irv said:

 

Ukraine is the perfect tool for Demented Biden supporters to distract the masses from the domestic mess they've created with their experiments.  What a mess.  Sad.      

Winning mess. 

 

Meanwhile you guys want to hurt women while claiming to support the unborn, evil clowns you are 

[ChiGoose]

17 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Dont know about the US. But in here, all over social media are people on the left, rabidly supporting the "War" in Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Russia stops fighting, there’s no more war.

 

If Ukraine stops fighting, there’s no more Ukraine. 
 

It’s not they people want war. It’s that they want Ukraine to survive and they don’t live in some fantasy world where a terrorist state that is currently murdering civilians is going to suddenly negotiate in good faith unless it’s been beaten so badly it has to. 
 

Anyone thinking a long lasting peace deal can be achieved now, without Ukraine further bloodying the Russians and forcing their retreat, is just not living in the real world. 

[Tommy Callahan]

11 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

If Russia stops fighting, there’s no more war.

 

If Ukraine stops fighting, there’s no more Ukraine. 
 

It’s not they people want war. It’s that they want Ukraine to survive and they don’t live in some fantasy world where a terrorist state that is currently murdering civilians is going to suddenly negotiate in good faith unless it’s been beaten so badly it has to. 
 

Anyone thinking a long lasting peace deal can be achieved now, without Ukraine further bloodying the Russians and forcing their retreat, is just not living in the real world. 

I must of missed the part where any discussion of negotiations were even mentioned.  Similar to any Ukrainian source saying the goal is the pre 2014 border.

 

 

[snafu]

14 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Early on, the expectation was that Russia would roll Ukraine and decapitate the government within days of launching the war. 
 

In the face of that, it would be understandable for Ukraine to want to broker a peace deal even if they got a bad deal. 
 

Since then, Ukraine has proven effective at combating a Russian army that is weak from corruption and ignorance. Ukraine now hopes to regain all of its territory, not just what has been taken in the last year. 
 

In addition to that, the Russians have been committing atrocities and war crimes. From torture and mass murder in places like Bucha, to beheading POWs and other horrors. 
 

Given that and Russia’s lack of trustworthiness, any peace deal signed now would likely only serve to buy Putin time to reorganize and resupply his forces before violating the deal and continuing his murderous rampage. 
 

So why would Ukraine sue for peace now? And what would we gain by pressuring them to do so? It doesn’t make any sense.
 

If Ukraine can gain the upper hand with its upcoming advances, it might put itself in a position where Russia will have to listen to its demands. In the meantime, asking for “peace” is really just asking to give Russia more time to organize and kill more people. 

 

Just my two cents...

 

Ukraine would be smart to seek peace if their planned counteroffensive is successful and they cut off the "land bridge" to Crimea that the Russians have built.  Then Ukraine has leverage.  If they fail, then Ukraine should look for some sort of cease-fire agreement because they will be overextended, and Russia will likely be able to take advantage of a Ukrainian failure.

 

But anyway, here's hoping that the US and anyone else who cares makes a push to end the fighting.

There's no reason why the US would want anyone to keep fighting -- other than to divert resources which should be conserved for the impending conflict with China that this administration (and the previous administration) and the press have been ginning up support for (with a big assist from China).  Another issue is that the harder this administration pushes, the more likely that Russia and China will form some sort of indispensable alliance.  As it is presently, their friendship looks fairly shaky.

 

What's the US "to gain" from ending a struggle that nominally affects our interests?  Even if Ukraine fails to takes back and hold land touching the Black Sea, the US and NATO should consider the result a success.  Western Europe has cut its energy dependence from Russia, NATO has presumably been made stronger, the Eastern European countries in NATO are now extra vigilant and a strong bloc, Russia has been shown to be a less than formidable fighting force.  Add the possibility that Putin may have some domestic troubles of his own.  Seems like the US has gained a lot already.

 

Our country hasn't indicated that they have seriously considered what the "end" of this conflict will look like.  If they haven't, then that's a colossal mistake.  If they have, then they should make it look like they've got some level of competence regarding this matter --other than throwing war material and excessive amounts of cash at their proxy.  Maybe that would quiet down their critics -- who at this point have an argument to make in the absence of any coherent policy.

 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

34 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Dont know about the US. But in here, all over social media are people on the left, rabidly supporting the "War" in Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is “War” in quotes?

[Irv]

19 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

And winning. You are supporting Putin, so you go 

 

 

Winning mess. 

 

Meanwhile you guys want to hurt women while claiming to support the unborn, evil clowns you are 

 

Keep aborting babies in the 8th and ninth months.  Dopes like you think it's ok to murder female babies but don't want adult females "hurt".  Hillarious.  Hell.  They can't even call it "abortion".  Dems say "female reproductive rights".  What a bunch of bull#### artists.   Now that I've faced you, I'm ready for your Trump zinger.  C'mon you know you want to do it.    

[Tiberius]

Just now, Irv said:

 

Keep aborting babies in the 8th and ninth months.  Dopes like you think it's ok to murder female babies but don't want adult females "hurt".  Hillarious.  Hell.  They can't even call it "abortion".  Dems say "female reproductive rights".  What a bunch of bull#### artists.   Now that I've faced you, I'm ready for your Trump zinger.  C'mon you know you want to do it.    

Oh stop, you guys are out to handicap women, hurt women, its all about being a holes to women just to make yourselves feel tough, all while pretending to care about babies. Bad people