GOAT debate related to era Montana vs Brady

[Mikie2times]

The talking heads get to the Goat conversation a lot with basketball. If they don't give it to MJ, the argument typically is depends on the era. Which if you watched NBA in that era, it was a physical game. It's hard to even recognize today's game compared to it. I watched a lot of early 90's NFL as well but just got back into a binge kick of 80's / 90's classics. I can't help but think, why do we never hear the era argument in debating the NFL's Goat conversation? For all the Jim Brown fans, lets just keep this to QB for the sake of this post.

 

Towards the end of his career Montana was basically a concussion time bomb. Over a decade of just brutal hits. He ultimately played his last game against us in the AFC championship and was knocked out.  Corrected, he retired a year after the Bills game...

 

When you look at Brady, about the only thing that ever seemed to bother him was being hit. Further, not being hit is precisely what allowed him to do what he did as long as he did. For some time at this point I conceded the Goat title to Brady not really pausing to ask if all things were equal. Watching some of these games and the hits in them. I just don't know how Brady would hold up against this. I know this is a Bills board and many like to dismiss Brady and what he has done, but what is your take on this? Doing your best to put your anti TB feelings to the side, do you think he could have done more than Joe if he played in the 80's and early 90's? Defensive holding not being the same. The insane physicality. Actually a decent amount to unravel on this topic. Factoring era in I have to give the nod to Montana.  

Edited April 12, 2023 by KzooMike

[thenorthremembers]

Brady made his coach look better than he was.   Montana's coach made Montana look better than he was.    In my lifetime I've found the easiest way to the truth is to choose the answer with the least amount of what ifs or variables.  Brady is the GOAT and to me it's not close.  Personally, I think the larger debate here is whether Montana was better than Peyton Manning.   Hell, Mahomes should already be mentioned in the conversation for 2nd best ever.  But just like with Jordan in Basketball, there is no real discussion about who is the GOAT.

[freddyjj]

17 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Towards the end of his career Montana was basically a concussion time bomb. Over a decade of just brutal hits. He ultimately played his last game against us in the AFC championship and was knocked out.

I always thought this too but Joe played for KC again in 14 games in 1994 and appeared also in one playoff at end of 1994 season.  

 

Sucks getting old. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MontJo01.htm

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

I always thought this too but Joe played for KC again in 14 games in 1994 and appeared also in one playoff at end of 1994 season.  

 

Sucks getting old. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MontJo01.htm

Shame on me 🙃

[Billl]

Montana left the 49ers, and they kept on rolling.  Brady left the Patriots, and they’ve been mediocre at best since.

[Mikie2times]

Just now, Billl said:

Montana left the 49ers, and they kept on rolling.  Brady left the Patriots, and they’ve been mediocre at best since.

Dumbest argument ever, he handed it off to a future hall of famer. Lots of ways to debate this, discussing Steve Young performing well is not close to one of them. 

[Southern_Bills]

It's Brady, I hate to say it. Maybe it was because of advances in sports medicine/nutrition and it helped him extend his prime. Can't fault him for that.

 

I believe NE was going to fall off regardless if he stayed or went, but it happened how it happened. 

 

And for the Montana handed it to another HoF QB arguments, don't forget Young was considered a failure in Tampa Bay. So Walsh definitely got the best out of him.

[Mikie2times]

6 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

It's Brady, I hate to say it. Maybe it was because of advances in sports medicine/nutrition and it helped him extend his prime. Can't fault him for that.

 

I believe NE was going to fall off regardless if he stayed or went, but it happened how it happened. 

 

And for the Montana handed it to another HoF QB arguments, don't forget Young was considered a failure in Tampa Bay. So Walsh definitely got the best out of him.

Young played his first two years in the league for Tampa, who at the time was one of the worst teams in the league. I think it's a bit short sighted to just site sports medicine/nutrition as the reason Brady played longer. Look at some of the hits QB's took in the 80's. No amount of medicine or nutrition would allow the body to hold up. The fear of taking those shots and being concussed over and over as Joe was certainly would impact any player. At the end of the day I can't dispute giving the nod to Brady but so many better reasons then some of the things being discussed. 

[Augie]

17 minutes ago, Billl said:

Montana left the 49ers, and they kept on rolling.  Brady left the Patriots, and they’ve been mediocre at best since.

 

Montana had a young HOF QB behind him. Plug and play HOF QB’s.

 

Brady left of his own accord, with nothing but prayers behind him. 

[C.Biscuit97]

I loved Montana growing up but he got to throw to Jerry Rice, maybe the greatest football player ever. Steve Young, when healthy, was arguably better than Montana in that system. They also were loaded teams because there was no cap. Look at the scrubs Brady was throwing go besides Gronk.  Winning the amount of SBs they did in a salary cap makes Brady blow Montana away. 

28 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Dumbest argument ever, he handed it off to a future hall of famer. Lots of ways to debate this, discussing Steve Young performing well is not close to one of them. 

Of course if does. It’s like the current 49ers now. If you blindly look at Jimmy G’s stats and “wins,” he looks great. However, the fact that almost any qb can step in and be successful shows there is nothing special about him. If there was any drop off between Montana and Young, it makes Montana look better. But Young was ever better than him. 

[Mikie2times]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I loved Montana growing up but he got to throw to Jerry Rice, maybe the greatest football player ever. Steve Young, when healthy, was arguably better than Montana in that system. They also were loaded teams because there was no cap. Look at the scrubs Brady was throwing go besides Gronk.  Winning the amount of SBs they did in a salary cap makes Brady blow Montana away. 

Of course if does. It’s like the current 49ers now. If you blindly look at Jimmy G’s stats and “wins,” he looks great. However, the fact that almost any qb can step in and be successful shows there is nothing special about him. If there was any drop off between Montana and Young, it makes Montana look better. But Young was ever better than him. 

If Brady left and handed it off to Steve Young they would still be winning Super Bowls. He can be a great player and so can Montana. That tandem has never really been replicated before. So if that's grounds for diminishing performance, pretty stupid IMO. With that logic any scrub that gets followed by a worse scrub gets elevated. Still a scrub.  

[90sBills]

28 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I loved Montana growing up but he got to throw to Jerry Rice, maybe the greatest football player ever. Steve Young, when healthy, was arguably better than Montana in that system. They also were loaded teams because there was no cap. Look at the scrubs Brady was throwing go besides Gronk.  Winning the amount of SBs they did in a salary cap makes Brady blow Montana away. 

Of course if does. It’s like the current 49ers now. If you blindly look at Jimmy G’s stats and “wins,” he looks great. However, the fact that almost any qb can step in and be successful shows there is nothing special about him. If there was any drop off between Montana and Young, it makes Montana look better. But Young was ever better than him. 

People forget that Montana won his first 2 superbowls before Rice got there.

 

Between Brady and the real ‘Joe Cool’ it’s Montana all the way for me. 

[Billl]

54 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Dumbest argument ever, he handed it off to a future hall of famer. Lots of ways to debate this, discussing Steve Young performing well is not close to one of them. 

Didn’t hurt that the team also had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Michael Carter, Bill Romanowski, Wesley Walls…

 

Montana was arguably the GOAT before Brady came along, but Brady ended any legitimate debate.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

58 minutes ago, Billl said:

Montana left the 49ers, and they kept on rolling.  Brady left the Patriots, and they’ve been mediocre at best since.

The roster was insane for the 9ers…during and after Montana—similar to a Favre to Rodgers handoff as far as QB talent. McCorkle post Brady is not even in the same universe of talent comp imho. Also, the resurgence of our Bills is not to be underestimated in the fall of the Patsies—with or without Tom I have no doubt a maturing Allen bests old Brady post -2019. 

[Billl]

41 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Montana had a young HOF QB behind him. Plug and play HOF QB’s.

 

Brady left of his own accord, with nothing but prayers behind him. 

The same Steve Young who had 11 career TDs and 21 INTs before he came to SF and threw 10 TDs and 0 INTs his first season there?  Having a HOF coach and one of the greatest supporting casts of all time doesn’t hurt.

[GoBills808]

re the NBA

 

Very few of those guys from the 80s could have played today. They weren't athletic enough, didn't train enough, and the physical defense everyone likes to reminisce about were just fouls if we're being honest.

[Augie]

Just now, Billl said:

The same Steve Young who had 11 career TDs and 21 INTs before he came to SF and threw 10 TDs and 0 INTs his first season there?  Having a HOF coach and one of the greatest supporting casts of all time doesn’t hurt.

Yup. That’s the same guy. The guy who played with basically the same players as Montana. Your “supporting casts” argument only hurts you here. 

 

You embarrass yourself if you don’t acknowledge how bad the Buc’s were back then. 

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

Yup. That’s the same guy. The guy who played with basically the same players as Montana. Your “supporting casts” argument only hurts you here. 

 

You embarrass yourself if you don’t acknowledge how bad the Buc’s were back then. 

You’re so close to getting it.  Playing with a historically great supporting cast makes QBs look even better.  Even with that roster, Montana was 16-7 all time in the postseason.  Brady is 35-13.  

 

Brady is the greatest football player in NFL history, and it’s not particularly close.  Denying that is akin to denying that Gretzky is the GOAT in hockey.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

You’re so close to getting it.  Playing with a historically great supporting cast makes QBs look even better.  Even with that roster, Montana was 16-7 all time in the postseason.  Brady is 35-13.  

 

Brady is the greatest football player in NFL history, and it’s not particularly close.  Denying that is akin to denying that Gretzky is the GOAT in hockey.

 

You are so FAR from getting it. I was talking about Montana and Young. 

[Billl]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You are so FAR from getting it. I was talking about Montana and Young. 

I know.  You came into the middle of a conversation and decided the discussion was about something else entirely.  Young went from looking like a bust to an immediate all-pro by moving from a crappy roster to an historically great one.  Montana played nearly his entire career with loaded rosters and won 16 postseason games and 4 Super Bowls in 15 seasons.  Incredible as his career was, it’s absolutely dwarfed by Brady’s.  You could literally cut TB’s career into 3 sections and any one of them would be HOF worthy.

 

You put a rookie Joe Montana on the 2000 Patriots, and he doesn’t end his career with 10 Super Bowl appearances and 7 rings.  The same can be said for literally every QB in history other than Tom Brady.