JSN Top 30 Visit with Bills

[Buffalo_Stampede]

16 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Luke Schoonmaker is in Buffalo for a pre-draft visit 

That’s a buffalo football player name.

 

Schoooooooon!

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

But Phillips is rarely ever healthy….. so that has to be taken in conservation regarding his contract. Last season, he was even worth this year contract (3m)….. because, as always….. he was hurt

 

Edit:  just noticed he’s not getting 3M.  Thanks for posting that.

 

According to Spotrac, Jordan Phillips is getting $3M this season

 

It's not straightforward to figure, because it is incentivized and those have to be divvied into Likely to be Earned (which count against the cap) and Not Likely to be Earned (which count against next year's cap if they're earned)

 

But No Way is he getting $750k plus incentives - vet minimum salary for a 9 or 10 yr player is $1.065M, and the NFLPA would not allow a player to be paid a lower salary than that. 

 

It looks like Phillips is getting $1.805M salary (well above vet min), $500k signing, $100k workout, plus $35k/game active roster bonus and from $200 up to $850k for sacks.    So at a minimum, Phillips gets $2.4M (salary + signing bonus + workout bonus), but the NFL considers him likely to get 11 games x $35k per game or $385k roster bonus and $200k sack bonus for 3 sacks "likely to be earned".  So $2.985M if you wanna be picky.   Rounds to $3.0M

 

TBH Spotrac has a note about his sack bonuses being "noncumulative" which I don't understand - I think it means he doesn't get to add up the sack bonuses so he doesn't get a maximum of $1.65M in sack bonuses if he gets 8 sacks, but I'm not sure.  That would explain the initial confusion between a report that Phillips got "up to" $4.7M, vs. the contract that's in Spotrac.

 

5 hours ago, dje85 said:

Aaron Wilson

@AaronWilson_NFL

·

1h

#Bills deal for Jordan Phillips one-year, $1.805 million salary $720,000 guaranteed), $500,000 signing bonus after passing physical, $35,000 per game active roster bonus, up to $595,000, $100K offseason workout bonus, playtime incentive up to $750K, sacks incentive up to $850K

 

That's not $750k plus incentives.

 

That's $2.4M plus incentives, and the NFL considers $600k of the incentives for active roster and for sacks "likely to be earned", so they count in his cap.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Beck Water

[SectionC3]

On 4/10/2023 at 4:27 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

What sign do you have that Josh is unhappy? And while Diggs definitely is, a lot of his unhappiness is reported as a breakdown of his relationship with Josh. I think you are guilty of putting 2 and 2 together and making 5. 

I have no idea whether Allen is unhappy.  But I doubt that he's satisfied with the talent at WR and on his line.  It is . . . odd that Brown and Bease were brought back from "pasture" last year.  And Allen definitely got beat up last year.  Irrespective of whether Allen is happy, sad, angry, or parts in between, he is the franchise and (as I'm positive you agree), it would be wise to invest in supporting him on his side of the ball. 

[OldTimer1960]

8 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

I have no idea whether Allen is unhappy.  But I doubt that he's satisfied with the talent at WR and on his line.  It is . . . odd that Brown and Bease were brought back from "pasture" last year.  And Allen definitely got beat up last year.  Irrespective of whether Allen is happy, sad, angry, or parts in between, he is the franchise and (as I'm positive you agree), it would be wise to invest in supporting him on his side of the ball. 

I think that the majority here agree that, if equally good prospects are available on offense and defense, then they should lean towards the offense this year.  But, that’s the rub - will there be good prospects available on offense when they pick?

In a weak draft like this, I think job 1 has to be to find a good player at most any position in round 1.  If that means having to take defense because the remaining offensive players aren’t as good, then so be it (in my opinion).  It doesn’t do any good to force a pick on offense because that’s what they need/want most.  
 

I am hoping that there will be a few good offensive players available at 27, but if a run on OTs happens and JSN and Addison are gone, do you reach for another player on offense or do you look at potentially better prospects on D?  I think you have to avoid a reach, especially in this draft.  

[JGMcD2]

18 hours ago, whorlnut said:

It’s so funny to me that some people can’t take off their fan glasses and look at things for the way they are. I’d take juju or hardman over davis. I’d take skyy moore over anyone we had in the slot and toney was a good find as well. Come on with this “we had more” nonsense. 

That’s fine that you’d take them… but take them based on what? Potential? Production? 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I think that the majority here agree that, if equally good prospects are available on offense and defense, then they should lean towards the offense this year.  But, that’s the rub - will there be good prospects available on offense when they pick?

In a weak draft like this, I think job 1 has to be to find a good player at most any position in round 1.  If that means having to take defense because the remaining offensive players aren’t as good, then so be it (in my opinion).  It doesn’t do any good to force a pick on offense because that’s what they need/want most.  
 

I am hoping that there will be a few good offensive players available at 27, but if a run on OTs happens and JSN and Addison are gone, do you reach for another player on offense or do you look at potentially better prospects on D?  I think you have to avoid a reach, especially in this draft.  

It's not a reach if the offensive player is Dalton Kincaid or Michael Mayer. Folks don't think TE is worth the pick. I don't agree in this case. Indeed, I have a sneaking suspicion OBD may countenance Darnell Washington at 27, which is too high, but I don't think you should ignore this position as a possibility. It's one of the strongest in a weak draft.

[dje85]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

According to Spotrac, Jordan Phillips is getting $3M this season

 

It's not straightforward to figure, because it is incentivized and those have to be divvied into Likely to be Earned (which count against the cap) and Not Likely to be Earned (which count against next year's cap if they're earned)

 

But No Way is he getting $750k plus incentives - vet minimum salary for a 9 or 10 yr player is $1.065M, and the NFLPA would not allow a player to be paid a lower salary than that. 

 

It looks like Phillips is getting $1.805M salary (well above vet min), $500k signing, $100k workout, plus $35k/game active roster bonus and from $200 up to $850k for sacks.    So at a minimum, Phillips gets $2.4M (salary + signing bonus + workout bonus), but the NFL considers him likely to get 11 games x $35k per game or $385k roster bonus and $200k sack bonus for 3 sacks "likely to be earned".  So $2.985M if you wanna be picky.   Rounds to $3.0M

 

TBH Spotrac has a note about his sack bonuses being "noncumulative" which I don't understand - I think it means he doesn't get to add up the sack bonuses so he doesn't get a maximum of $1.65M in sack bonuses if he gets 8 sacks, but I'm not sure.  That would explain the initial confusion between a report that Phillips got "up to" $4.7M, vs. the contract that's in Spotrac.

 

 

That's not $750k plus incentives.

 

That's $2.4M plus incentives, and the NFL considers $600k of the incentives for active roster and for sacks "likely to be earned", so they count in his cap.

Yeah, I misread the guarantee as his base salary when I saw it on twitter my bad. Still he is getting close to veteran minimums (according to spotrac that is 1.16m)for a 9 year veteran with some bonus incentives. (And yes I considered workout bonuses and game roster actives as incentives regardless if they cost against the cap because you have to be on the roster to get them they are not part of the base salary I was talking about). 1.805 compared to 1.165 isn't a large jump contract wise. But this is all moot considering I was just using him as an example earlier that many players get less than what their true market value should be due to age / injury. Which I am sure you knew. I am not debating that you didn't. Just posted where I got my numbers from contract wise because you asked. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by dje85

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

It's not a reach if the offensive player is Dalton Kincaid or Michael Mayer. Folks don't think TE is worth the pick. I don't agree in this case. Indeed, I have a sneaking suspicion OBD may countenance Darnell Washington at 27, which is too high, but I don't think you should ignore this position as a possibility. It's one of the strongest in a weak draft.

 

Kincaid isn't a reach at #27. He is a dynamic pass catcher. He is a tight end by designation but he is really a big slot receiver who can attack the seams. Mayer is a reach at that spot to me. He is a decent all around tight end but he'd be coming in as Knox's backup and to run out there in two TE sets. Kincaid would be giving you a completely different look to the extent you might want to make 12 personnel your base. Diggs and Harty or Davis outside, Knox and Kincaid inside. Only run a slot receiver out there as a change up. 

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

It's not a reach if the offensive player is Dalton Kincaid or Michael Mayer. Folks don't think TE is worth the pick. I don't agree in this case. Indeed, I have a sneaking suspicion OBD may countenance Darnell Washington at 27, which is too high, but I don't think you should ignore this position as a possibility. It's one of the strongest in a weak draft.

I agree that Kincaid would be a nice option.  I’m not sure that I’m as sold on Mayer, but he is probably worthy of consideration.  Mayer’s blocking would be helpful to free up Knox for passes and Mayer is a reliable short-intermediate option.  You’d have to hope that Allen would not ignore Mayer in the short areas for riskier downfield shots.  He did show he would do that when he had Cole Beasley before his decline.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Kincaid isn't a reach at #27. He is a dynamic pass catcher. He is a tight end by designation but he is really a big slot receiver who can attack the seams. Mayer is a reach at that spot to me. He is a decent all around tight end but he'd be coming in as Knox's backup and to run out there in two TE sets. Kincaid would be giving you a completely different look to the extent you might want to make 12 personnel your base. Diggs and Harty or Davis outside, Knox and Kincaid inside. Only run a slot receiver out there as a change up. 

I have been pushing for Kincaid in the first if he falls to 27 or Washington in the second, though I think you have to trade up from 59 to get him. Kincaid is my not so secret crush for this draft. I agree that you would have to employ a lot more 12 personnel. Folks have dismissed the idea saying we don't even use Knox, but that does not properly countenance a true change in the base deployment. (The other thing you get is folks who like the idea because they don't think Knox is any good. I think they are wrong there as well. I know you agree on that.)

 

I threw out Mayer because he is often mocked in the first. He is not a player I am particularly interested in drafting.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Dr. Who

[OldTimer1960]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I have been pushing for Kincaid in the first if he falls to 27 or Washington in the second, though I think you have to trade up from 59 to get him. Kincaid is my not so secret crush for this draft. I agree that you would have to employ a lot more 12 personnel. Folks have dismissed the idea saying we don't even use Knox, but that does not properly countenance a true change in the base deployment. (The other thing you get is folks who like the idea because they don't think Knox is any good. I think they are wrong there as well. I know you agree on that.)

 

I threw out Mayer because he is often mocked in the first. He is not a player I am particularly interested in drafting.

I’m with you on Kincaid.  He is a receiving weapon and may be better than the WRs that will be available.  Good chance Kincaid is gone before 27, though.