Does any defender in the NFL have a reputation of being the best defender against Travis Kelce?

[LyndonvilleBill]

8 hours ago, aristocrat said:

You out score them. Josh Allen beats him 

I think we tried that 2yrs ago. Didn't work out. 😉

[Buffalo_Stampede]

He’ll be 34 early next year. Age is the only thing that stops players like him.

[MrEpsYtown]

Sack the quarterback. That’s how you beat the Chiefs imo.

[bills_fan]

Kielce, while a hall of famer, is really not the problem. The bills match up well with kc. And it’s 50/50 who wins a potential playoff game Between the two teams. The bigger problem imho, is that we match up badly w Cinci. And burrow with those wide receivers will be a huge problem the next 2 or 3 years. We gotta get better at the line of scrimmage and using tight coverage and if we get beat over the top on occasion, so be it. Cinci will paper cut us to death until they are in the end zone. Go bigger on offense to out score them w deandre and draft the best mlb you can to try and slow them down for first 10 yards after the los.  (drew sanders is my choice) is the only way I can figure out to deal w it. 

[ProcessTruster]

10 hours ago, aristocrat said:

You out score them. Josh Allen beats him 

yes.  defense doesn't much matter anymore at the highest levels as with today's rules, D cannot win against the best pass offenses.  the NFL at the highest levels is pretty much pass heavy, flag football.   Have a run game and run defense, sure, but don't expect to go very far it you don't have the QB and receiver talent to play 50 throws/game flag football .   WRs/DBs don't even wear pads anymore bc they don't need to

[Drew21PA]

10 hours ago, Billl said:

He’s remarkably consistent in that he never has a bad game.  He’s often incredible, but even when he isn’t, he’s still productive.

Like 3 catches 13 yards and 3tds were his bad game last year 

 

you’re right 

[John from Riverside]

11 hours ago, Billl said:

He’s remarkably consistent in that he never has a bad game.  He’s often incredible, but even when he isn’t, he’s still productive.

During the regular season, we have actually held him down and at least one game

[LyndonvilleBill]

57 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

yes.  defense doesn't much matter anymore at the highest levels as with today's rules, D cannot win against the best pass offenses.  the NFL at the highest levels is pretty much pass heavy, flag football.   Have a run game and run defense, sure, but don't expect to go very far it you don't have the QB and receiver talent to play 50 throws/game flag football .   WRs/DBs don't even wear pads anymore bc they don't need to

Yup, as shown in the Cincy game. Defense doesn't matter. 🙄

[PrimeTime101]

It's never who, but how. 2 seasons ago Milano was out and Klien did a fantastic job harassing him within the first 5-7 yards then a dime back or Safety took over duties making sure their bodies were underneath. If Kelce went really deep then the nickel CB picked him up.  A Big Bodied OLB is what Cincy used to. I believe Pratt bumped and run him all game and within the first 5 yards allowed Kelce got harassed big time, not allowing him to explode to get open quickly. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I will always love me some Milano.. but to stop Kelce you have to be physical in the first 5 and that is not Minano's game. 

12 hours ago, Chaos said:

Been a number of discussions on Kelce seeming unstoppable.  Is there any player or team in the league with a reputation for stopping Kelce from dominating a game when the Chiefs need him too? 

 

[Billl]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

During the regular season, we have actually held him down and at least one game

What game are you referencing?  In the past few seasons, his worst game against Buffalo was 6 catches for 57 yards and a TD.  That was the 2021 regular season game.  He then went for 13/118/2 in the playoffs.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

He's better against zone... but you need to have a good plan to get to mahomes if you're gonna play man.  He will scramble all day for free yards, will buy time all day which is a huge challenge in man, and is not afraid to send it down the field.  

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Sack the quarterback. That’s how you beat the Chiefs imo.

 

He's sacked on about 4% of dropbacks, so ur lucky for about 2 in a game.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Darrelle Revis said it a long time ago. You only stop elite TEs with elite corners. No player can match up with elite TE size but a CB can run with them. Nobody has an issue lining up a 6ft CB against a 6'5 WR. Why wouldn't you do the same against a 6'5 TE?

Guarding elite TEs with safeties and LBs is old school dumb ass DC thinking. They aren't athletic enough to run with the elite TEs.

To McD and Frazier credit, the Bills did man up Gronk with CBs in the past but I have not seen it when facing Kelce. Maybe that is because the Patriots had no credible WR threats recently and of course KC does. Or maybe Bills tried it and I missed it. 

[Just in Atlanta]

Jimmy Carter in his 70s had a better fastball than this guy. 

[Chaos]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Darrelle Revis said it a long time ago. You only stop elite TEs with elite corners. No player can match up with elite TE size but a CB can run with them. Nobody has an issue lining up a 6ft CB against a 6'5 WR. Why wouldn't you do the same against a 6'5 TE?

Guarding elite TEs with safeties and LBs is old school dumb ass DC thinking. They aren't athletic enough to run with the elite TEs.

To McD and Frazier credit, the Bills did man up Gronk with CBs in the past but I have not seen it when facing Kelce. Maybe that is because the Patriots had no credible WR threats recently and of course KC does. Or maybe Bills tried it and I missed it. 

Very interesting 

[Mark Vader]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

What game are you referencing?  In the past few seasons, his worst game against Buffalo was 6 catches for 57 yards and a TD.  That was the 2021 regular season game.  He then went for 13/118/2 in the playoffs.

What were Kelce's numbers in last years game?

[Rico]

Once again, Poyer does know what to do.

 

 

Can’t really hurt him, nothing but meat up there.

 

Here’s another guy that gets it:

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Rico

[Shaw66]

I really think this is the wrong question.   Kelce is not some kind of super talent who beats people one on one all day long.   Kelce is entirely the product of scheme and play calling.   What he is good at is recognition and thinking along with his quarterback.  

 

He's successful like Gronk, but for a completely different reason.   Gronk was a matchup nightmare because of his size and his relatively good speed and movement.  Kelce is a matchup nightmare because their offense gives him route options that allow him to run to open space, and he's very good at recognizing those options and knowing that his QB will see it too.  He has good mobility and a good brain.   In fact, a good comparison is Beasley from a couple of years ago.  Beasley was unguardable on his routes for a reason similar to why Kelce is so tough:  He started in the middle of the field, so his options were both left and right and middle, and he was good at reading those options.  Allen was good at finding him.   That's what Kelce does, not as quick as Beas, but what he lacks in quickness he makes up with size.   

 

Running routes from the middle of the field is a big advantage to a receiver in the sense that he has the whole field to work with.   Teams don't like putting their wideouts in there because it's too dangerous, too likely to have your little guy get banged up by someone he doesn't see coming.   Beas and other guys like him are really tough.   Kelce has the size to play from the middle, and the route running ability of a decent #2 receiver, and he takes advantage of being able to play from there.  

 

Yes, someone can stop him, but you have to over-commit to stop him.  You need a guy with cornerback skills and linebacker size, and those guys generally don't exist.  Some teams used to double-team Gronk sometimes, and you can double Kelce and take him away, too.  Problem with doubling him is that it leaves your defense too exposed, because you're taking two guys out of your defensive center.    Doubling a wideout doesn't expose you in the same way.  So teams didn't double Gronk a lot, and they don't double Kelce.  Beas generally didn't get doubled for the same reason, and because he didn't hurt you deep like Gronk and Kelce do.  

 

I think you have to try to limit Kelce with scheme.   You need to bring different people at him at different times, you need to disguise defenses, you need to give Mahomes looks that make him fail to see a defender that can make a play.  That is, it's team defense that can slow Kelce, not a player.  

[papazoid]

SAFETIES:

DERWIN JAMES, LOS ANGELES CHARGERS

TYRANN MATHIEU, NEW ORLEANS SAINTS

JIMMIE WARD, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS

JEREMY CHINN, CAROLINA PANTHERS

DARNELL SAVAGE, GREEN BAY PACKERS

KYLE DUGGER, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS

JAYRON KEARSE, DALLAS COWBOYS

 

LINEBACKERS:

 FRED WARNER, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
 DARIUS LEONARD, INDIANAPOLIS COLTS
 DEMARIO DAVIS, NEW ORLEANS SAINTS
 ERIC KENDRICKS, MINNESOTA VIKINGS

 MATT MILANO, BUFFALO BILLS

[Shaw66]

33 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Darrelle Revis said it a long time ago. You only stop elite TEs with elite corners. No player can match up with elite TE size but a CB can run with them. Nobody has an issue lining up a 6ft CB against a 6'5 WR. Why wouldn't you do the same against a 6'5 TE?

Guarding elite TEs with safeties and LBs is old school dumb ass DC thinking. They aren't athletic enough to run with the elite TEs.

To McD and Frazier credit, the Bills did man up Gronk with CBs in the past but I have not seen it when facing Kelce. Maybe that is because the Patriots had no credible WR threats recently and of course KC does. Or maybe Bills tried it and I missed it. 

Some good points here.  Yes, we've seen White on Gronk, because the Pats didn't have great threats on the outside.  Haven't seen White on Kelce because White didn't play against Kelce in 2022, and in 2021 the Bills couldn't afford to bring White inside because the Chiefs featured Hill on the outside.  As I said, I think team defense slows Kelce, and part of the mix and match that the Bills defense might do in 2023 is to put White on Kelce occasionally.  Study the Chiefs' tendencies, and on an occasional third down, flip White and Johnson.   Maybe even go some sort of box and one, with White one-on-one and the remaining back six in some sort of zone or match-up zone, to borrow the basketball concepts.   Not a steady diet, but change up from time to time to give Mahomes a look he hasn't seen or planned for.  

 

You're right that no one else has a real chance one on one.   Edmunds was the ideal linebacker, or Milano, to try it, and they couldn't do it.  Kelce's good enough to demand corner cover skills.   Corners are too small for him, but as you say, elite corners can make up for the lack of size with cover skills and ball skills.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I really think this is the wrong question.   Kelce is not some kind of super talent who beats people one on one all day long.   Kelce is entirely the product of scheme and play calling.   What he is good at is recognition and thinking along with his quarterback.  

 

He's successful like Gronk, but for a completely different reason.   Gronk was a matchup nightmare because of his size and his relatively good speed and movement.  Kelce is a matchup nightmare because their offense gives him route options that allow him to run to open space, and he's very good at recognizing those options and knowing that his QB will see it too.  He has good mobility and a good brain.   In fact, a good comparison is Beasley from a couple of years ago.  Beasley was unguardable on his routes for a reason similar to why Kelce is so tough:  He started in the middle of the field, so his options were both left and right and middle, and he was good at reading those options.  Allen was good at finding him.   That's what Kelce does, not as quick as Beas, but what he lacks in quickness he makes up with size.   

 

Running routes from the middle of the field is a big advantage to a receiver in the sense that he has the whole field to work with.   Teams don't like putting their wideouts in there because it's too dangerous, too likely to have your little guy get banged up by someone he doesn't see coming.   Beas and other guys like him are really tough.   Kelce has the size to play from the middle, and the route running ability of a decent #2 receiver, and he takes advantage of being able to play from there.  

 

Yes, someone can stop him, but you have to over-commit to stop him.  You need a guy with cornerback skills and linebacker size, and those guys generally don't exist.  Some teams used to double-team Gronk sometimes, and you can double Kelce and take him away, too.  Problem with doubling him is that it leaves your defense too exposed, because you're taking two guys out of your defensive center.    Doubling a wideout doesn't expose you in the same way.  So teams didn't double Gronk a lot, and they don't double Kelce.  Beas generally didn't get doubled for the same reason, and because he didn't hurt you deep like Gronk and Kelce do.  

 

I think you have to try to limit Kelce with scheme.   You need to bring different people at him at different times, you need to disguise defenses, you need to give Mahomes looks that make him fail to see a defender that can make a play.  That is, it's team defense that can slow Kelce, not a player.  

this is my view also. He moves like a basketball player finding space in the paint in. Mahommes gets through his first or second read them dumps to him. 
 

 

It’s effective because it’s not predictable like a route tree