Terrel Bernard Discussion

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

What I can disagree with is sharing the same opinion that our staff values middle LB as much as some of you on this board. 

 

They just traded up for a MLB in the 1st round five years ago. Maybe their philosophy has changed, but however much they value MLB every team needs at least a starting caliber player at the position. We don't currently have one unless Bernard or Spector make a huge leap. It's crazy to think they're just going to ignore the position.

[whorlnut]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

They just traded up for a MLB in the 1st round five years ago. Maybe their philosophy has changed, but however much they value MLB every team needs at least a starting caliber player at the position. We don't currently have one unless Bernard or Spector make a huge leap. It's crazy to think they're just going to ignore the position.

And who are you to just assume that bernard or Spector can’t take a leap?

[Orlando Buffalo]

4 hours ago, Rigotz said:

So… Taron Johnson to the bench at $10M+/yr?

When I say big safety I mean 3 safeties and 3 CB at the same time. Dime coverage more often then we did last year.

[ProcessTruster]

they'll probably go with Bernard.  that is why they drafted him last year, as a hedge that TE leaves, which he did.   pretty simple.   all but the last negative on the OP also applied to TEdmunds, so not seeing a big dropoff in play necessarily.  

[John from Riverside]

I have the sneaking suspicion that they also plan to use Benard in that role
 

If logic follows them, we are looking for a big space eater to go in front of him

[Rigotz]

19 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

When I say big safety I mean 3 safeties and 3 CB at the same time. Dime coverage more often then we did last year.

 

Ok... well the whole reason you made this comment is saying you want Terrel Bernard on the field, so would he be the only linebacker on the field?

 

3 Corners + 3 Safeties + 4 Defensive Linemen = 10 players.

You only get to have 11 players on the field.

 

So ... bench Matt Milano?

[Orlando Buffalo]

27 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

 

Ok... well the whole reason you made this comment is saying you want Terrel Bernard on the field, so would he be the only linebacker on the field?

 

3 Corners + 3 Safeties + 4 Defensive Linemen = 10 players.

You only get to have 11 players on the field.

 

So ... bench Matt Milano?

When did I say I thought he was the guy? You have me confused with someone else. I stated he has limitations and I see us going to the Dime often of he is our "starting" LB. 

[Beck Water]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:23 AM, Yantha said:

 

Could be, but I don't even remember him having any reps.  Let's keep an eye out in preseason.

 

If you want a peak at Spector, hit the 4Q of the Week 5 Pitt game, we were up big and they called off the dogs.

[Beck Water]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:31 AM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Locked In Bills did a whole episode on him and Dodson, a really good listen. 
 

Basically, the game was still very fast for him in 2022 and his only action was filling in for Milano, not Edmunds (which are 2 different positions). He plays with his arse on fire but has the issues you’d expect a 224 pound rookie to have. Bernard relies on his athleticism to beat blocks, this doesn’t translate well to MLB. 

My speculation is Bills may be looking to play more 3-LB sets than they have years past, as Bernard truly best spot it OLB. Milano isn’t leaving the weak side, meaning Bernard likely lines up covering TEs, but this is actually a good thing. 
 

I’m very excited to see Bernard this season, but I think our defense as a whole will look a little different.

 

So to this point of more 3 LB sets, I made a post a bit ago looking back at the Bills defense of 2017 (pre-Edmunds), when our MLB was Preston Brown and our OLBs were Zo Alexander and Ramon Humber (then Matt Milano). 

 

The Bills defense was 18th on points that year, and I think both our DL and our secondary have been upgraded since then.  The principal problem IIRC was they could either shut down the run, or the pass, but struggled against an offense proficient at both.  Now, our DL has been reworked since then - DL that year was Shaq Lawson-Kyle Williams - Adolphus Washington - Jerry Hughes with Marcell Dareus in the mix for the first 5-6 games (and helpful in run D).  I think Rousseau - Oliver or Phillips - Jones or Settle - Epenesa is better, and adding in Von Miller cinches the clinch.

 

But, if they play more base, and put Bernard at OLB 1) that takes Johnson off the field, and he's good enough that's probably a downgrade 2) who do you see at MLB?

On 4/9/2023 at 7:56 AM, Yantha said:

This communal mock draft has made me start to look at Terrell Bernard a little closer.  I want to upgrade MLB in the absence of Edmunds, but there are really 3ish prospects in the draft that could get the job done, and I'd even narrow that down to two really...   The VALUE is not there to select MLB at 27, and the Bills (like WE did.....) would likely pick the value player at 27, like Jordan Addison or another value pick.

 

My hope is still that we trade down, and land Jack Campbell, but you have to find a trade partner to do so AND hope that someone doesn't trade AHEAD of us to steal him away.  I don't think it's a secret in the NFL world, that the Bills need MLB....

 

So, I've been thinking about Terrell Bernard.  Let's be honest and say he was a reach of a pick in round 3, but he's a Buffalo Bill and has had the benefit of some time being coached in NFL, and has some experience under his belt. 

 

Let's take a look back at the reasoning why Beane thought he was a 3rd rounder, and without TOO many vomit emojis (lol), find some good things to discuss about his play.  I'll post some scouting reports below.  Looking forward to some mindful discussion.

 

Discussion Point 1:  He's got a PFF grade of 65, which is decent (take that for what you will)

 

Discussion Point 2:  NFL.com (crappy as well) described him as an average backup or special teamer, with the following player profile.

Overview

Undersized sub-package nickel linebacker with special-teams value on the next level. Bernard possesses elite intangibles and teams will be drawn to him because of it. He's resilient, productive and showed a willingness to play through pain. However, Bernard lacks the desired frame and play strength and will face scrutiny surrounding his injury history. He needs space to operate and has the speed for man-cover duties as a pro. If the medicals check out, he should be a Day 3 pick with sub-package value.

 

Strengths

Scouts rave about his leadership and character.

Never-quit attitude despite adversity.

Film junkie who rang up 100-plus tackles in 2019 and 2021.

Rapid read and response against play-action.

On a continuous quest to go get the football.

Loose and fluid in pursuit and change of direction.

Bends and flattens off the corner as a blitzer.

Speed to cover man targets underneath.

 

Weaknesses

Slender frame might be maxed out.

Gets caught up too easily in the clutter.

Engulfed by size if he's not proactive.

Struggles to fit and hold a gap.

Knocked off-balance by redirect blocks.

Loses pursuit leverage, allowing back to cross his face.

Angles to runner leave little margin for error as tackler.

Average coverage recognition.

Has had foot, shoulder and knee injuries at Baylor.

Sources Tell Us

"If you don't like Bernard, then you don't like smart team leaders who can run. It's that simple." -- Scout for NFC team

 

Discussion Point 3:  Bleacher Report Prospect profile describes him as a high end developmental prospect 

POSITIVES

— Speed in space pops off the film. Highly effective pursuit defender sideline-to-sideline.

— Impressive flexibility and body control. Allows him to change directions and flow in space, as well as turn to make himself skinny when taking on blockers.

— Downhill speed can beat linemen to the spot and wiggle past them to shoot through a gap.

— Impressive turn-and-run speed and change of direction in coverage. Regularly had to carry tight ends up the seam and back across the field on crossers and kept up with them step for step.

— Effective as a blitzer, particularly looping around the edge. Has the speed and bend to be a problem in space and finish sacks with his speed.
 

NEGATIVES

— Size and weight is a concern. Handily overwhelmed by offensive linemen if they get a hand on him more often than not. Does not take on blocks effectively.

— Not a physical tackler. Struggles to strike through runners and bring them down where they are.

— Eye candy can give him some trouble at times. Regularly comes up too far on play action and fails to regain depth. Shifts, motions and players coming across the line of scrimmage at the snap to block can get him to hesitate.

— Can get lost in the mosh pit against heavier and tighter formations. Does not have the strength or comfort to handle those situations.

— Limited in coverage right now assignment-wise despite his range. Only comfortable turning and running across the field in man or match coverage. Needs to prove more as a zone-coverage defender playing top-down.
 

2021 STATISTICS

13 G, 103 TOT, 12.5 TFL 7.5 SK, 4 PBU
 

OVERALL

Terrell Bernard has been a linebacker since the day Baylor recruited him, but he looks and plays like a safety who was converted to linebacker.

The sideline-to-sideline range Bernard shows off is among the best in the class, as is his flexibility and change of direction. Many of his best plays feature him flying across from the opposite side of a run play to shoot through a gap or firing downhill to slip past a blocker into the backfield, Lavonte David style. All of that range and agility shows up when he's asked to cover players in tight coverage as well.

 

The concerns with Bernard's game stem mostly from size and strength. He is not necessarily unwilling to scrap with blockers, but he doesn't have the length or strength to engage blocks and fight back effectively. Bernard will also need to expand his coverage toolbox in the NFL, though his speed alone should allow him to play some man coverage and consistently make tackles on the perimeter.

 

Bernard projects best as a weak-side linebacker. As a weak-side linebacker, he would more regularly be protected by seeing runs away from him, allowing him to shoot gaps as a pursuit player or flow over the top to finish plays on the perimeter. Bernard would also be allowed to handle running backs out of the backfield more often than not, which is a good matchup for him considering his athletic traits.

 

Bernard is not a Day 1 starter, but his speed alone makes him an enticing developmental option.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean NFL.com (crappy as well)?  I will say this: I dunno about NFL.com's grades or their little projection para, but the actual scouting report which is written by Zierlein - when I come back to a scouting report after a guy's been in the pros a couple years and re-read it, I find myself nodding my head.

[Yantha]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

So to this point of more 3 LB sets, I made a post a bit ago looking back at the Bills defense of 2017 (pre-Edmunds), when our MLB was Preston Brown and our OLBs were Zo Alexander and Ramon Humber (then Matt Milano). 

 

The Bills defense was 18th on points that year, and I think both our DL and our secondary have been upgraded since then.  The principal problem IIRC was they could either shut down the run, or the pass, but struggled against an offense proficient at both.  Now, our DL has been reworked since then - DL that year was Shaq Lawson-Kyle Williams - Adolphus Washington - Jerry Hughes with Marcell Dareus in the mix for the first 5-6 games (and helpful in run D).  I think Rousseau - Oliver or Phillips - Jones or Settle - Epenesa is better, and adding in Von Miller cinches the clinch.

 

But, if they play more base, and put Bernard at OLB 1) that takes Johnson off the field, and he's good enough that's probably a downgrade 2) who do you see at MLB?

 

I'm not sure what you mean NFL.com (crappy as well)?  I will say this: I dunno about NFL.com's grades or their little projection para, but the actual scouting report which is written by Zierlein - when I come back to a scouting report after a guy's been in the pros a couple years and re-read it, I find myself nodding my head.

Yeah I hear you.  I say crappy as well because there are some highly questionable articles and mocks coming out of the organization, like the Bills trading up to 20 for a pass rusher.  Some scouting reports are pretty solid.  Agreed.

[Yantha]

I didn't want to start ANOTHER linebacker thread, so I'm putting this here....

 

For all the discussion about "the top 3", and a few mentioning Noah Sewell, there is another linebacker that has grabbed my attention from a pretty darn good football program.

 

Ben VanSumeren, Michigan State.

This is a player that has flown curiously under the radar, battled some injuries LAST year, and is really starting to peak (in my opinion at the right time).  I see this guy as someone worthy of discussion and honestly, I think that he could come in and compete with Bernard and others on our current roster.

 

He's 6'3, 240lbs and had a good showing for the scouts.

4.40 40

Benched 29X

42.5" vertical

10.11' Broad Jump

 

Here's a nice article:  https://www.si.com/college/michiganstate/football/michigan-state-spartans-football-nfl-draft-pro-day-ben-vansumeren-kendall-brooks-msu-032123

 

Here's an snippet:  "VanSumeren’s performance at Michigan State’s Pro Day showed his strength, athleticism and speed for all NFL scouts to see. In the evolving professional game, linebackers need to be quick to cover space and be able to run with running backs and tight ends in pass coverage. Was VanSumeren’s Pro Day success enough to get him drafted? Maybe late in Day 3 (Rounds 4-7), as game film is still the biggest factor for NFL franchises. "

 

Projected WIDELY from rounds 4-7 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

On 4/9/2023 at 12:24 PM, LyndonvilleBill said:

There's always Noah Sewel.😉

I think he’d complement Milano and Bernard well. He’s downhill but can still cover some.

[colin]

On 4/11/2023 at 11:31 PM, Yantha said:

I didn't want to start ANOTHER linebacker thread, so I'm putting this here....

 

For all the discussion about "the top 3", and a few mentioning Noah Sewell, there is another linebacker that has grabbed my attention from a pretty darn good football program.

 

Ben VanSumeren, Michigan State.

This is a player that has flown curiously under the radar, battled some injuries LAST year, and is really starting to peak (in my opinion at the right time).  I see this guy as someone worthy of discussion and honestly, I think that he could come in and compete with Bernard and others on our current roster.

 

He's 6'3, 240lbs and had a good showing for the scouts.

4.40 40

Benched 29X

42.5" vertical

10.11' Broad Jump

 

Here's a nice article:  https://www.si.com/college/michiganstate/football/michigan-state-spartans-football-nfl-draft-pro-day-ben-vansumeren-kendall-brooks-msu-032123

 

Here's an snippet:  "VanSumeren’s performance at Michigan State’s Pro Day showed his strength, athleticism and speed for all NFL scouts to see. In the evolving professional game, linebackers need to be quick to cover space and be able to run with running backs and tight ends in pass coverage. Was VanSumeren’s Pro Day success enough to get him drafted? Maybe late in Day 3 (Rounds 4-7), as game film is still the biggest factor for NFL franchises. "

 

Projected WIDELY from rounds 4-7 

 

 

are those numbers real?  that is an insane bunch of stats right there.  taylor mays stats (which got him drafted in the 2nd round even tho he basically couldn't play safety.

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, colin said:

 

 

are those numbers real?  that is an insane bunch of stats right there.  taylor mays stats (which got him drafted in the 2nd round even tho he basically couldn't play safety.

Interesting reference to Taylor Mays. That’s a name I’d almost forgotten. He looked for all the world to be a sure thing coming out of college. And then…nope. 

[TheFunPolice]

On 4/10/2023 at 8:06 AM, John from Riverside said:

I have the sneaking suspicion that they also plan to use Benard in that role
 

If logic follows them, we are looking for a big space eater to go in front of him

 

Now we're talking! 

[Gigs]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:41 AM, Yantha said:

 

Linebacker is my favorite position to watch during games.....  I'd LOVE that draft.

Those are the 2 LBers I'd want but don't expect. If by the Football Gods they were to get both Sanders and Campbell, I'd probably ***** myself