Terrel Bernard Discussion

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Bobby Wagner was the best LB in the NFL for most of the last decade playing at 240-245 lbs. And that was on a 6ft frame. 

We can go back and forth with multiple examples. 

Hope I'm wrong and he can play. If not he will go down as even a worse pick than Ford.

 

right- he played 240-245-  you want your Mike to be 245-255.
 

I don’t think Bernard will ever be a MLB for us and I suspect he’ll be a busted pick.
 

I don’t think he can be worse than ford.  We traded UP to get Ford and his play actually hurt our team.  Bernard was a lesser pick and will play ST.  If Bernard starts and is terrible while losing games for us, then maybe I’d agree with him being a worse pick

[LyndonvilleBill]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

And he was also weighed at 236-  who knows what he played at-  players usually lose weight during the season. I’m quite confidant that he played several games under 240.  

My point was- Ethan wants his Mike to be 245-255.  You want your Mike weighing 255?  Edmunds is the the most athletic big man freak MLB in history and he weighed 250.  Guys with that kind of body usually don’t run like Maine.  

 

I’d much rather have mine 235-245. 255 is a 4-3 DE. 

I was just pointing out accurate #'s. Kuechly was 6'3 and 242 when measured. So as compared to Campbell at 6'5" and 249, I'd be good with that. And if he were to lose say 6lbs as you stated Kuechly did or may have, that would put him at 243. Which is right in your range. No?

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Doc - I understand I have a different viewpoint.  But you do have to admit the whole "reach" discussion is based on people's expectations.   

 

I can't stop people from losing their mind when the Bills move up to draft Jack Campbell but I can give fair warning.  In my mind it makes sense.

 

Beane would be moving up to get ahead of the Giants.  It would be especially painful for Beane to be sniped by Shoen/Giants for JC.  The threat of the Giants is real - currently their starting lb is someone named Bobby Okereke.  Give me a break, that sounds pathetic.  The needs writeup says the Giants need an lb, "a run thumper would be perfect".   I can understand moving ahead of the Giants.

 

You have created a plausible narrative. I just don't like the story. I tend to agree with New Era and in this case I would rather choose from the pool of available veteran free agents for a stop gap solution over drafting a lb high. I would use day one and two assets for different positions. If one focuses on what one expects Beane and McDermott to prioritize, I believe there is some chance your scenario is correct which does not make me happy.

[machine gun kelly]

As much as I’m hopeful Bernard improves from year 1 to 2, my thought

is that if we acquire Hopkins or OBJ (he is the higher risk with two ACL repairs), then Jack Campbell at 27 would be logical.

 

In the 2nd round, we have more

latitude in picking a G or TE.  There will be a great deal of value at both positions in the 2nd and 3rd rds.

[OldTimer1960]

29 minutes ago, NewEra said:

And he’s not here because it took him 5 years to figure it out. If he had played like he played last year, in 2021 and 2022, he’d still be on the team.  
 

The Giants paid Kenny Golladay 4-72M.  They weren’t right.

My only point there was that Edmunds isn’t anywhere as bad as many here think.  He was very young when drafted and still played well.  Was he Bruce Smith of LBs?  No, of course not, but he was a quality starting LB and I believe we will miss him in pass defense this year.  People will say that Poyer and Hyde are declining, but missing that huge agile presence in the middle zone will be the problem.

[CNYfan]

The draft miss on Terrell Bernard is the reason the Bills will have to reach for need again this year in the first round.  

I will never understand how wrong this pick was, and why?

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I was just pointing out accurate #'s. Kuechly was 6'3 and 242 when measured. So as compared to Campbell at 6'5" and 249, I'd be good with that. And if he were to lose say 6lbs as you stated Kuechly did or may have, that would put him at 243. Which is right in your range. No?

I’m fine with Campbell being our starting Mike. I just don’t want to spend our first rd pick on a Mike.  I want a tackle or a playmaker on O.  If we trade down and draft him, so be it.  It fills a need…. But I’d rather fill that need with a cheap vet + what we have rather than using our most prized offseason asset on a non premium position. 

 

my point was- 245-255 isn’t ideal for a MLB in 2023.  I think it’s 235-245

 

[OldTimer1960]

5 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

The draft miss on Terrell Bernard is the reason the Bills will have to reach for need again this year in the first round.  

I will never understand how wrong this pick was, and why?

I’m not sure that he was drafted to be Edmunds’ replacement.  I think he was drafted to play a role similar to Milano’s.  If they really did draft him to be Edmunds’ replacement, it is an even bigger head-scratcher than it already appeared to be.

[LyndonvilleBill]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’m fine with Campbell being our starting Mike. I just don’t want to spend our first rd pick on a Mike.  I want a tackle or a playmaker on O.  If we trade down and draft him, so be it.  It fills a need…. But I’d rather fill that need with a cheap vet + what we have rather than using our most prized offseason asset on a non premium position. 

 

my point was- 245-255 isn’t ideal for a MLB in 2023.  I think it’s 235-245

 

I can understand your preference.  So if we trade back to 33 you'd be ok taking Campbell?

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

My only point there was that Edmunds isn’t anywhere as bad as many here think.  He was very young when drafted and still played well.  Was he Bruce Smith of LBs?  No, of course not, but he was a quality starting LB and I believe we will miss him in pass defense this year.  People will say that Poyer and Hyde are declining, but missing that huge agile presence in the middle zone will be the problem.

I think your vision of “many” is clouded by a select few.  Yes, there were a few posters who said he was bad, but I wouldn’t my label it as many.  He just wasn’t living up to what we had hoped for and wasn’t going to be worth his next contract.  
 

From my experience here, most people thought he was an average to above average LB prior to 2023.  All the tools to be a top player, but something was missing.  Then it clicked for him this year and he was closer to the player we thought we were getting when we drafted him.  
 

 

[whorlnut]

36 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Doc - I understand I have a different viewpoint.  But you do have to admit the whole "reach" discussion is based on people's expectations.   

 

I can't stop people from losing their mind when the Bills move up to draft Jack Campbell but I can give fair warning.  In my mind it makes sense.

 

Beane would be moving up to get ahead of the Giants.  It would be especially painful for Beane to be sniped by Shoen/Giants for JC.  The threat of the Giants is real - currently their starting lb is someone named Bobby Okereke.  Give me a break, that sounds pathetic.  The needs writeup says the Giants need an lb, "a run thumper would be perfect".   I can understand moving ahead of the Giants.

The entire premise of your argument is that the bills care as much about “upgrading” MLB as much as you do. You really aren’t giving the idea that they feel there might be a replacement already on the roster any credence. We have no idea how they feel about what they have and we have no idea what type of scheme they will run this year. The idea of trading up for a MLB is beyond laughable to me. I don’t see it in any scenario. I’m fact, if they were so worried about that position, then I feel they would have paid David or Wagner, who returned on home team discounts. 

[OldTimer1960]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’m fine with Campbell being our starting Mike. I just don’t want to spend our first rd pick on a Mike.  I want a tackle or a playmaker on O.  If we trade down and draft him, so be it.  It fills a need…. But I’d rather fill that need with a cheap vet + what we have rather than using our most prized offseason asset on a non premium position. 

 

my point was- 245-255 isn’t ideal for a MLB in 2023.  I think it’s 235-245

 

Offensive playmakers are in short supply in round 1 of this draft.  FWIW, Pat Kirwan thinks only 2WRs will go in round 1.  I’m hoping for a good OT who can slide to G in the case that Spencer Brown improves.  I could be on board for Dalton Kincaid as the playmaker.  Not crazy about Bijon Robinson in round 1, but I could at least understand if the went that way.

[whorlnut]

I honestly can’t wait until we don’t take Campbell. I’ve never been more annoyed in a pre draft season by fans hanging on to ONE GUY. It’s beyond atrocious that anyone would want to ignore getting an elite playmaker or protection for Allen yet again in favor of a slow MLB.

[oldmanfan]

Bernard or Spector start. 

[Dr. Who]

11 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Offensive playmakers are in short supply in round 1 of this draft.  FWIW, Pat Kirwan thinks only 2WRs will go in round 1.  I’m hoping for a good OT who can slide to G in the case that Spencer Brown improves.  I could be on board for Dalton Kincaid as the playmaker.  Not crazy about Bijon Robinson in round 1, but I could at least understand if the went that way.

Kincaid is a fella I've been interested in for a while. In a weak Wr class, I think you look outside the box for playmakers and he is one of them. I am surmising the quality of Oline available at 27 will not be appreciably better than what you can probably get at 59. If you exclude playmakers, I'd love to get a solid OT with some positional versatility and Darnell Washington, a tremendous blocking TE that would make 12 personnel a valid option should Dorsey prove up to OC.

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I can understand your preference.  So if we trade back to 33 you'd be ok taking Campbell?

Not really.  I’m sure there would be other offensive players that I would prefer.  If we traded down mid 2nd and we’re able to draft Campbell + (Bergeron, Dawand, Mauch, Duncan, Avila, Schmitz or tippman) then I’d be ok with it.  I just want to upgrade our OL.  It was our downfall last season imo.  While I think we’ve improved it some, it’s not solidified by any means.  McB owes it to Josh and the fan base give him better protection and weapons. 

 

As a rule, I prefer not to spend a first round pick on a mlb.  

[whorlnut]

Just now, NewEra said:

Not really.  I’m sure there would be other offensive players that I would prefer.  If we traded down mid 2nd and we’re able to draft Campbell + (Bergeron, Dawand, Mauch, Duncan, Avila, Schmitz or tippman) then I’d be ok with it.  I just want to upgrade our OL.  It was our downfall last season imo.  While I think we’ve improved it some, it’s not solidified by any means.  McB owes it to Josh and the fan base give him better protection and weapons. 

 

As a rule, I prefer not to spend a first round pick on a mlb.  

I honestly can’t understand how anyone would think otherwise. How can anyone feel a MLB is going to be the difference between now and a super bowl?  It’s an offensive league and we have one of the best qbs in the game. Why wouldn’t any fan want to maximize him in every way?  Our line was horrrible last year and we basically only added one guy. Why not try to keep improving it?  Also…Diggs and Allen are on the brink of being very vocal about their displeasure on the emphasis on offensive talent. Will a MLB move that threat?  Nope. The selection of a playmaker or OL shows those guys good faith from the GM that he has their back. 

[HappyDays]

Ignoring everything we saw from him on film in his limited snaps, we can still conclude how the coaching staff feels about him based on his usage last year. After playing 98% of defensive snaps against the Jets in week 9, he played just 9 defensive snaps total over the next two games, and zero defensive snaps the rest of the season after that. And he was a healthy scratch in the divisional round against the Bengals.

 

Zero chance this regime plans on starting a player that they totally lost faith in during the back half of his rookie season. Whatever Beane says in front of the media, the Bills starting MLB for 2023 is not on the roster right now.

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I honestly can’t understand how anyone would think otherwise. How can anyone feel a MLB is going to be the difference between now and a super bowl?  It’s an offensive league and we have one of the best qbs in the game. Why wouldn’t any fan want to maximize him in every way?  Our line was horrrible last year and we basically only added one guy. Why not try to keep improving it?  Also…Diggs and Allen are on the brink of being very vocal about their displeasure on the emphasis on offensive talent. Will a MLB move that threat?  Nope. The selection of a playmaker or OL shows those guys good faith from the GM that he has their back. 

💯 

 

and not just the back of the HC

[whorlnut]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Ignoring everything we saw from him on film in his limited snaps, we can still conclude how the coaching staff feels about him based on his usage last year. After playing 98% of defensive snaps against the Jets in week 9, he played just 9 defensive snaps total over the next two games, and zero defensive snaps the rest of the season after that. And he was a healthy scratch in the divisional round against the Bengals.

 

Zero chance this regime plans on starting a player that they totally lost faith in during the back half of his rookie season. Whatever Beane says in front of the media, the Bills starting MLB for 2023 is not on the roster right now.

Thank you for your opinion.