New stadium cost goes up from $1.4 billion to $1.54 billion.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Are you saying you would rather have the huge monstrosity of a stadium that they have in Dallas?  If so, almost unimaginable.

 

It is like they do not even have a home field advantage anymore in that huge impersonal cavern, where so many rely on monitors because they are so far from the field.

 

No way would would that kind of impersonal corporate mess be accepted in Buffalo.

 

When the Bills play the Cowboys there are you ever worried about the crowd being too loud or the home atmosphere undermining the Bills?  I don't.  It is almost like they are playing on a neutral field when playing in Dallas.

 No. I’m saying they waited almost 10 years to build an open air stadium for three times the money.

A huge waste of money. But no one cares about the stadium so they’ll build it and then complain about it later.

[Peter]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I remember reading a stadium report years ago, probably 2015, and a state of the art domed stadium was under $800 million. 

 

Terry Pegula was the owner worth like $5 bill at the time. They’re now spending out of their own pocket what it would’ve cost to build the stadium we should’ve built back then.

 

 

 

 

Your original post related to 2009 when the Cowboys stadium was built. Now you are saying something entirely different.

 

In 2015, the Pegulas had just recently paid $1.4 Billion in cash to make sure that the Bills remained in Buffalo (2014). Let me repeat: $1.4 Billion.

 

Surely, you know that being "worth" $5 B or any other amount does not mean you have $5B lying around in cash. They would have had to liquidate additional assets and then pay taxes etc. I don't blame them for taking their time to figure out the best approach. They had just bought the team. Also, there were years left on the lease. [As an aside: Could they or anyone else have predicted that the present administration would have spent TRILLIONS of dollars causing inflation to skyrocket out of control in just the past year.]

 

As for the issue of a dome, I would prefer a dome. That is me. Up until the plans were announced, it seemed to me that most people on this board wanted an open air stadium. It is my understanding that most of the people surveyed felt the same.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Peter

[Peter]

11 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

 

Someone would have bought the Buffalo Bills and kept them here in Buffalo including Bon Jovi. 

With this statement, you have lost all credibility. 

 

Without the Pegulas overpaying for the Bills in 2014 to keep the team in Buffalo, the Bills were as good as gone. 

 

Bon Jovi and his Toronto partners were not going to keep the team in Buffalo. Neither would Trump or anyone else willing to pay what was necessary to win the bidding war. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Peter

[Buffalo_Stampede]

24 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Your original post related to 2009 when the Cowboys stadium was built. Now you are saying something entirely different.

 

In 2015, the Pegulas had just recently paid $1.4 Billion in cash to make sure that the Bills remained in Buffalo (2014). Let me repeat: $1.4 Billion.

 

Surely, you know that being "worth" $5 B or any other amount does not mean you have $5B lying around in cash. They would have had to liquidate additional assets and then pay taxes etc. I don't blame them for taking their time to figure out the best approach. They had just bought the team. Also, there were years left on the lease. [As an aside: Could they or anyone else have predicted that the present administration would have spent TRILLIONS of dollars causing inflation to skyrocket out of control in just the past year.]

 

As for the issue of a dome, I would prefer a dome. That is me. Up until the plans were announced, it seemed to me that most people on this board wanted an open air stadium. It is my understanding that most of the people surveyed felt the same.

No you missed the original point by a mile.

 

Jerry’s world was his dream stadium. That stadium at the time the Pegula’s purchased the team was the pinnacle. Pegula spends almost 10 years researching only to build a basic open air stadium across the street for hundreds of millions more than Jerry world.

 

Yes things happened which caused inflation and it’s a horrible time to be building a stadium but they are the ones that decided to wait until the the last minute. It was a failure. They could’ve done this on their own for half the cost years ago.

 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, papazoid said:

downtown, retractable roof, dual purpose convention center

 

but hey, guess folks don't mind bills home january playoff games being played in detroit

 

or spending $1.5 billion on 10 events a year instead of $2.0 billion on 50 events

 

Which 50 events?

 

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I remember reading a stadium report years ago, probably 2015, and a state of the art domed stadium was under $800 million. 

 

Terry Pegula was the owner worth like $5 bill at the time. They’re now spending out of their own pocket what it would’ve cost to build the stadium we should’ve built back then.

 

 

 

 

They're not.

[Don Otreply]

21 hours ago, HOUSE said:

We need a smaller visitors locker room with 2 light bulbs. 

Absolutely, and those light bulbs need to be red in color, 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

In 2015, the Pegulas had just recently paid $1.4 Billion in cash to make sure that the Bills remained in Buffalo

 

You’re a marketers dream.

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

I actually expected the cost to go down…….said no one…

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

20 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Every single time they build one of these things, no matter when or where, the actual costs are higher than the original estimates. SoFi cost billions more than originally projected.

 

I’m not saying NYS isn’t corrupt, but this isn’t a particularly good example of it. 
 

And why is inflation in quotes? Do you believe it actually doesn’t exist?

Oh I believe it exists, I just don't believe it's the reason for overruns before a shovel even hits the ground.

 

 

[Mister Defense]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 No. I’m saying they waited almost 10 years to build an open air stadium for three times the money.

A huge waste of money. But no one cares about the stadium so they’ll build it and then complain about it later.

 

Okay, but open air is a good thing.  A needed thing, actually.

 

Want to become like so many of the dome/retractable roof teams?  Soft, inconsistent, and very few ever contending?  Think: Cowboys, Vikings, Cardinals,  Colts,  Texans, Falcons... Domes make teams weak, in my opinion. 

 

To me, that is what we would get--football is meant to be played outside, is an outdoor game.

 

The elements make teams physical; stronger, resilient. Shoot, Dorsey may never run the ball again if the Bills played in a dome!

 

Dome teams become soft, inconsistent, and tailgating almost always dies when the dome goes up as well--why brave the elements for hours when you are moving to a giant living room soon to watch your team?

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Okay, but open air is a good thing.  A needed thing, actually.

 

Want to become like so many of the dome/retractable roof teams?  Soft, inconsistent, and very few ever contending?  Think: Cowboys, Vikings, Cardinals,  Colts,  Texans, Falcons... Domes make teams weak, in my opinion. 

 

To me, that is what we would get--football is meant to be played outside, is an outdoor game.

 

The elements make teams physical; stronger, resilient. Shoot, Dorsey may never run the ball again if the Bills played in a dome!

 

Dome teams become soft, inconsistent, and tailgating almost always dies when the dome goes up as well--why brave the elements for hours when you are moving to a giant living room soon to watch your team?

 

 

I’m not arguing dome or no dome anymore. Your points are pretty backwards thinking though. 
 

This stadium is going to be a disaster and people need to speak loudly about it. No one cares at all. I don’t think I’ve heard much debate locally about this stadium. No one is talking about it. Nationally no one cares. It’s going to end up being a terrible mistake we’ll complain about after it’s built.

[Mister Defense]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m not arguing dome or no dome anymore. Your points are pretty backwards thinking though. 
 

This stadium is going to be a disaster and people need to speak loudly about it. No one cares at all. I don’t think I’ve heard much debate locally about this stadium. No one is talking about it. Nationally no one cares. It’s going to end up being a terrible mistake we’ll complain about after it’s built.

 

Lol

 

My points are "pretty backward"?  Please see bold above...

 

Yikes.

[Peter]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

You’re a marketers dream.

 

Just stating facts.

 

You are "dreaming" if you believe otherwise.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Lol

 

My points are "pretty backward"?  Please see bold above...

 

Yikes.

How does a stadium make a team soft?

 

You’re saying poor climate makes teams tough?

 

 Some day fans will realize they built $1.5 billion stadium that isn’t even as fan friendly as the old stadium. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[cba fan]

On 4/7/2023 at 4:26 PM, Draconator said:

 

You obviously missed the reason for the $140 Million extra cost.

 

- Bigger canopy covering the fans

- Enhanced electronics and amenities throughout the stadium to enhance the game day experience for the fans

no i did not. All those are good things. Point is Pegs is responsible for it. It is still a cost overrun and Pegs is responsible.

[Draconator]

8 minutes ago, cba fan said:

no i did not. All those are good things. Point is Pegs is responsible for it. It is still a cost overrun and Pegs is responsible.

and?

[cba fan]

23 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Is your laptop autocorrecting PSLs into "Pegs"?

that's funny as hell lmao........but truly it's his money either way.

20 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

Are there any water wells in Love Canal not being used?  They could pipe some of that to the stadium for the visitors. 

🤣😂😂i don't think this is what they had in mind with the "Choose Love" campaign.

Edited April 8, 2023 by cba fan

[Jukester]

57 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Some day fans will realize they built $1.5 billion stadium that isn’t even as fan friendly as the old stadium. 

And you are so sure of this already? How about we reserve judgement til it actually exists and we’ve actually experienced it’s level of fan friendliness. 

[cba fan]

19 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

We have already been over this, and NO, Pegula will not come close to 50% of the stadium costs.

 

He will be closer to 20%.

 

A massive portion of the $550M is coming from PSL’s (not Pegula’s money) and the G4 loan that is tied to the VISITORS cut of the ticket sales (again, not Pegula’s money).

 

So essentially, the taxpayers are paying for the taxpayer funded part. And the fans are paying for most of the Pegula portion.

 

From the Buffalo news article on it:

 

 

https://buffalonews.com/business/local/explainer-how-the-pegulas-will-leverage-seat-licenses-to-pay-a-big-part-of-the/article_a96b0e12-02de-11ed-8398-67952b630e33.html

we have gone over this and we disagree on it.

I still believe PSL money is Pegs. He choose to do PSL's as part of the funding and opening up the G4 loan from NFL.

Pegs and Bills have pd into the NFL G4 loan fund for decades and will pay in in perpetuity by taking Bills cut of tickets when they are on road when Bills are visitor. so it is Pegs money getting spent.

So i give it to Pegs on the ledger front.

 

I know you and some others do not agree.

 

It is just my categorization of it. Partially due to the following also:

 

If Pegs or other owner wanted to move a team to newer richer city, they could dig in, refuse to offer PSL's, then not Q for the G4 loan, and insist on more public funding that would not come, to then grease the wheel for the team to escape to richer pastures.

 

This option was very plausible for Pegs in this market and he could have dug in and insisted Bills WNY market cannot support PSL's and most believe that. Especially the State believes that as you read on:

 

and finally. This stadium deal is fundamentally different from every other PSL funding deals in history.

Pegs is funding all his portion up front including cost overruns to be determined completely separate from PSL money eventually brought in. And it has absolutely no bearing on how much, how little, or if any PSL money is raised. Or if 20 trillion is raised. Pegs is locked into the deal as is.

 

State wanted no part of this unknown and got Pegs to agree on the deal as is. 

 

[cba fan]

18 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Read the above Einstein poster I couldn’t have said it better myself. It is 100 percent accurate. Some like myself questioning PSE Terry Pegula doesn’t mean someone is a fraud or isn’t a Buffalo Bills fan. For the Bills fans saying Terry Pegula is the Buffalo Bills savior. The Buffalo Bills fans and the State of New York saved the Buffalo Bills. Look at Terry Pegula as a middle man raking in all the profits and watching his franchise climbing in value. While putting the original franchise money up he got that back with this stadium deal and his franchise rising in value because it’s one of the 32 NFL franchises of the NFL. 
 

Someone would have bought the Buffalo Bills and kept them here in Buffalo including Bon Jovi. With that much upfront public money Bon Jovi isn’t getting that in Toronto a free new stadium so the Buffalo Bills would have stayed in Buffalo regardless if Terry Pegula bid or not. I am a Buffalo Bills fan not a NFL greedy owners fan. Just like I am a Buffalo Sabres fan not a Jack Eichel fan. Owners, GM’s, coaches, players come and go it’s all the way it is. BSF has seen a lot as Buffalo sports fan for over five decades living in Buffalo. I am loyal to the Buffalo Bills laundry that is it if the Buffalo Bills can win a Super Bowl championship for Buffalo guaranteed next year if they moved Josh Allen goodbye Josh Allen. Don’t tell me that is awful the goal is to win a Super Bowl for Buffalo and I am not 25 years old anymore. I am 55 years old seen, heard and lived through all the Buffalo teams shoulda, woulda, coulda be quite and win a Super Bowl Championship for Buffalo Bills fans you bums in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

value of Bills rising does Pegs no good. He does not borrow money off the value of the team for operating and he is never selling in his lifetime. After which time his kids likely take over or sell then.

 

It would be like you buying a house at age 21 with about 20% of cash you had on hand in bank liquid. Then living in it your whole life to 85. Does not matter one bit what the value of that house is at any time as you are never selling it.

 

You in fact would hope it does not rise in value too much as it makes your property taxes jump up if it does.