Jeffrey Simmons extended with Titans - 4 years, $94 Million

[DCofNC]

31 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Yes… I acknowledged that later in the thread that they wouldn’t have signed Miller if that was the case …Same thought occurred to me a few minutes after I posted originally ..

 

The ring from 2021 ? Yeah maybe …

If there had been a disruptive force on the DL, there’s a chance of a ring in 21.  
 

The downside to bad drafting is having to sign people at a premium to get results you could have for a low cost for 4-5 years.  This the problem Beane faces now, poor drafting and poor many of 5th year options have cost the team a lot of talent and money.  If we are being objective, Beane has failed miserably on the draft/5th year option leverage.  He’s misplayed all of the 5th year options with the exception of Allen where he did leverage a deal that allows the team to get a decent deal and Allen to get paid.

[Aussie Joe]

9 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

If there had been a disruptive force on the DL, there’s a chance of a ring in 21.  
 

The downside to bad drafting is having to sign people at a premium to get results you could have for a low cost for 4-5 years.  This the problem Beane faces now, poor drafting and poor many of 5th year options have cost the team a lot of talent and money.  If we are being objective, Beane has failed miserably on the draft/5th year option leverage.  He’s misplayed all of the 5th year options with the exception of Allen where he did leverage a deal that allows the team to get a decent deal and Allen to get paid.

Can you explain in a little more detail what you mean around mismanaging the 5th year option say for Oliver and Edmunds…? 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Aussie Joe

[DCofNC]

9 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Can you explain in a little more detail what you mean around mismanaging the 5th year option say for Oliver and Edmunds…? 

 

Edmunds; no reason to use the 5th year and guarantee the contract because the franchise tag would have been only slightly more and would have given you the leverage to re-sign him, had he shown he was worth a new contract.  Instead, he plays the 5th year on the option, has a great year and walks away for nothing.  
 

Had you not used the option, he could have tested the market and found he was going to get maybe 12M a year (remember this is before his breakout year and before salaries went stupid), you could have locked him up right there and kept him.  Or by using the non-exclusive tag, had him back for a year at virtually the same money OR gotten a guaranteed pick for him.  Instead there’s a gaping hole in the D and you are playing a game of don’t sign anybody trying to get a non-guaranteed 3rd round pick.

 

Oliver; all things the same or at very least you wouldn’t be paying a guy 4M more than market value this year and have more room to move around in FA.

 

The 5th year option is a sucker’s bet.  You take all the risk early and expose yourself to more on the backside. If you ever actually use it, you have drafted a guy that isn’t worth extending early, but you give him a chance to blow up and walk away or you are overpaying for them in the last year.  

[offyourocker]

16 hours ago, Beast said:

What do you do?

 

6 teams before us didn’t take Josh Allen.

We also moved up in second round for Cody Ford when AJ Brown and Metcalf were available where we would have picked

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

17 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Simmons, Quentin Williams, Christian Wilkins.  These players are true game wreckers at DT.

 

Ed Oliver is not. Period. 

 

Ed Oliver is a good player, just not nearly as good as the #8 overall pick should be and not as good as typically the #8 overall pick is paid.  Then again how much should the #8 overall player be paid on a 2nd contract as likely every pick in the draft has many clunkers over the years so really hard to say how much that draft position is worth for 2nd contract.

 

 

17 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

No he is not..

 

But looking at this deal …they wouldn’t be able to afford to pay Oliver if he was at this level…

 

Likely if Ed had played at the level of these others, he would have been offered a 2nd contract at least a year ago if not more and likely would have signed it too as most do.  Bills could have back loaded it and been easily able to afford it. 

 

But like Edmunds this past year, the Bills didn't offer a contract at least not at the level he wanted, so nothing was signed.  Edmunds did have a better 5th year, likely is he had played at that same level in year 3 and 4, he'd have been offered a better deal back then and again would have signed it and they could have afforded it.  Also makes me nervous whenever a player has his significantly better season in a contract year.

 

I do think when players are given the 5th year tender but then no long term extension is worked out, the player has a chip on his shoulder against current team and more often goes elsewhere.  For those reasons, if Oliver does play really well this coming year, I'll be surprised if Bills can then work out a long term contract with him

[TampaBillsJunkie]

18 hours ago, Beast said:

What do you do?

 

6 teams before us didn’t take Josh Allen.

And two of them took QB's.  Oops! I'm so happy we took a shot and got it right for once.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, offyourocker said:

We also moved up in second round for Cody Ford when AJ Brown and Metcalf were available where we would have picked

Very bad. We traded up for Zay Jones instead of staying out and taking Cooper Kupp. The chiefs took CEH over Tee Higgins. The draft is stupid.

17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I wanted Simmons bad in the draft, the only reason he wasn't a top 10 pick, and probably top 5, where the character concerns from when he hit a woman while defending his sister from an attacker in high school.  I never had any long term concerns about him after hearing the details, hearing him speak about it and what he learned from that.  All his coaches and teammates glowed about him too.  

 

I kept saying Simmons was going to be the best DT in the draft, and so many here kept going on and on about how he was untouchable because of the high school incident.

 

I wish we would have taken him. 

I mean it was a 300 lbs guy hitting a woman. It’s a terrible look. Great player but I struggle to root for guys like that. It’s weird that fans got so upset about Kaepernick yet are fine with these scumbags on their team. Seems wildly hypocritical to me.

[atlbillsfan1975]

They are either going to trade Oliver during the draft or hope he plays for a contract and let him walk after the season and get a comp pick. 

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Simmons, Quentin Williams, Christian Wilkins.  These players are true game wreckers at DT.

 

Ed Oliver is not. Period. 

 

 

Wilkins, a game-wrecker? Yeah, not really seeing that. My guess is he manages to get somewhere around maybe $15 - $17M/ year for his next contract. Good player, and so far better than Oliver. But game-wrecker is really overstating it for him.

 

Oliver was headed in that direction in 2021. Definitely took a step back last year, but he had three injuries which looked like they really cut into his effectiveness. He hasn't had a lot of injuries, but he sure did last year.

 

He could easily take a major step forward this year. Or not. We'll have to see.

 

 

[Utah John]

19 hours ago, Beast said:

What do you do?

 

6 teams before us didn’t take Josh Allen.

And we traded away the pick that became Patrick Mahomes.  No sense in looking backward at the draft.  Everyone does their best, and sometimes it works out better than others.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Ed Oliver is a good player, just not nearly as good as the #8 overall pick should be and not as good as typically the #8 overall pick is paid.  Then again how much should the #8 overall player be paid on a 2nd contract as likely every pick in the draft has many clunkers over the years so really hard to say how much that draft position is worth for 2nd contract.

 

Yup. Based on Oliver’s reaction to the extension offer he got from the Bills - or the lack of an offer at all - I think he’ll hit FA where some DT needy team with plenty of cap space will overpay for him. If he has his best season it’ll be a repeat of Edmunds. 

[Aussie Joe]

3 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Edmunds; no reason to use the 5th year and guarantee the contract because the franchise tag would have been only slightly more and would have given you the leverage to re-sign him, had he shown he was worth a new contract.  Instead, he plays the 5th year on the option, has a great year and walks away for nothing.  
 

Had you not used the option, he could have tested the market and found he was going to get maybe 12M a year (remember this is before his breakout year and before salaries went stupid), you could have locked him up right there and kept him.  Or by using the non-exclusive tag, had him back for a year at virtually the same money OR gotten a guaranteed pick for him.  Instead there’s a gaping hole in the D and you are playing a game of don’t sign anybody trying to get a non-guaranteed 3rd round pick.

 

Oliver; all things the same or at very least you wouldn’t be paying a guy 4M more than market value this year and have more room to move around in FA.

 

The 5th year option is a sucker’s bet.  You take all the risk early and expose yourself to more on the backside. If you ever actually use it, you have drafted a guy that isn’t worth extending early, but you give him a chance to blow up and walk away or you are overpaying for them in the last year.  

Ok thanks…

 

In my opinion..they probably would have let Edmunds walk after his 4h year rather than tag him or match even $12m a year which some team would have offered him …as you say …2022 was by some margin his best year..and not sure they would have paid him more than Milano was getting based on Edmunds play prior to last year… another factor in picking up his 5th ..probably wanted to lock him in for another year guaranteed in the middle of their SB window…

Picking up Oliver’s 5th year deal has backfired  ….  No arguments there 
 

I guess in hindsight it’s clear which way they should have gone… to be fair though  it’s tougher to make the decision at the time…

 

They’ll have to make the call on Rousseau in 12 months… another tough decision…hope he can have a big year this year..

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Aussie Joe

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Edmunds; no reason to use the 5th year and guarantee the contract because the franchise tag would have been only slightly more and would have given you the leverage to re-sign him, had he shown he was worth a new contract.  Instead, he plays the 5th year on the option, has a great year and walks away for nothing.  
 

Had you not used the option, he could have tested the market and found he was going to get maybe 12M a year (remember this is before his breakout year and before salaries went stupid), you could have locked him up right there and kept him.  Or by using the non-exclusive tag, had him back for a year at virtually the same money OR gotten a guaranteed pick for him.  Instead there’s a gaping hole in the D and you are playing a game of don’t sign anybody trying to get a non-guaranteed 3rd round pick.

 

Oliver; all things the same or at very least you wouldn’t be paying a guy 4M more than market value this year and have more room to move around in FA.

 

The 5th year option is a sucker’s bet.  You take all the risk early and expose yourself to more on the backside. If you ever actually use it, you have drafted a guy that isn’t worth extending early, but you give him a chance to blow up and walk away or you are overpaying for them in the last year.  

 

 

Are you even allowed to do that?  Decline giving the 5th year option to a player, then turn around and tag him?  Has that actually been done with any 1st round draft pick rookies?  Don't recall ever hearing or reading names??

 

I'd have thought that would be something the CBA would have disallowed for the exact reasons you want to do it.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Wilkins, a game-wrecker? Yeah, not really seeing that. My guess is he manages to get somewhere around maybe $15 - $17M/ year for his next contract. Good player, and so far better than Oliver. But game-wrecker is really overstating it for him.

 

Oliver was headed in that direction in 2021. Definitely took a step back last year, but he had three injuries which looked like they really cut into his effectiveness. He hasn't had a lot of injuries, but he sure did last year.

 

He could easily take a major step forward this year. Or not. We'll have to see.

 

 

Wilkins is a better DT than Oliver

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Very bad. We traded up for Zay Jones instead of staying out and taking Cooper Kupp. The chiefs took CEH over Tee Higgins. The draft is stupid.

I mean it was a 300 lbs guy hitting a woman. It’s a terrible look. Great player but I struggle to root for guys like that. It’s weird that fans got so upset about Kaepernick yet are fine with these scumbags on their team. Seems wildly hypocritical to me.

I wasn’t against Kap though either, so that doesn’t apply to me.  And I didn’t say I was OK with it, I said I was less concerned it was an ongoing character flaw and felt good about his remorse for the event and the testimonials from those that knew him since about his growth.  

[BrooklynBills]

On 4/7/2023 at 5:39 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I wanted Simmons bad in the draft, the only reason he wasn't a top 10 pick, and probably top 5, where the character concerns from when he hit a woman while defending his sister from an attacker in high school.  I never had any long term concerns about him after hearing the details, hearing him speak about it and what he learned from that.  All his coaches and teammates glowed about him too.  

 

I kept saying Simmons was going to be the best DT in the draft, and so many here kept going on and on about how he was untouchable because of the high school incident.

 

I wish we would have taken him. 

 

I thought he tore his ACL before the draft too, right? 

7 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

 

Are you even allowed to do that?  Decline giving the 5th year option to a player, then turn around and tag him?  Has that actually been done with any 1st round draft pick rookies?  Don't recall ever hearing or reading names??

 

I'd have thought that would be something the CBA would have disallowed for the exact reasons you want to do it.

Giants could have done it with Daniel Jones I believe.