Brandon Beane Set To Double Down on 2022’s Big Disappointments

[WhoTom]

Asking Beane about his roster strategy is like asking a poker player about his hole cards.

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

I mean, I hope he's right.  Especially about Brown he's such a physical freak.  If things can click for him he could be great.

[BillsVet]

The only doubling-down on disappointment would be using another premium asset for McD's defense.  

 

Coming off the Cincinnati loss going defense again is like a business revising an aging product line despite their opponents innovating and gaining market share.  

 

If Beane concludes from the Cincinnati and Kansas City losses the last 2 years that they need more defense the result is they'll continue losing track meets against top-end NFL offenses.   

 

There's stubborn and then there's stupid.  McBeane are trending away from the former and pointing more toward the latter if they go defense in RD1.  

 

[PBF81]

43 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

I mean, I hope he's right.  Especially about Brown he's such a physical freak.  If things can click for him he could be great.

 

It could also very well be that Brown was a man amongst boys in the Missouri Valley conference, and that it simply hasn't translated to the NFL against competition that he simply never faced.  I mean how many DEs did he play on the opponents that they played that made it to the NFL.  I can't imagine many of any.  

 

I guess we'll find out. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by PBF81

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

It could also very well be that Brown was a man amongst boys in the Missouri Valley conference, and that it simply hasn't translated to the NFL against competition that he simply never faced.  I mean how many DEs did he play on the opponents that they played that made it to the NFL.  I can't imagine many of any.  

 

I guess we'll find out. 

 

 

That’s where experience, repetition, and coaching come into play. Your same sentiments could apply to a host of NFL players who played in lesser conferences in college. The one thing I see in Brown is a natural aggressiveness. He doesn’t appear to be lazy, especially in run blocking. I’m hoping he can be taught better technique to use his length in pass protection. We shall see. (By the way my biggest concern on the O Line is in the middle. I’m fed up with watching our Guards totally whiff in pass protection only to have Josh run for his life…or watch our RB get swallowed up right after taking a handoff. Pathetic.)

[Sherlock Holmes]

8 hours ago, MJS said:

The roster isn't even set. The draft hasn't happened.

 

Shouldn't we wait until those things happen before we start hurling accusations?

Why can't we hurl accusations both now and later?

[CookieG]

4 hours ago, Commish said:

Joe Marino just did a review of Spencer Brown, and he was fairly positive overall. No mention of slow feet as many people in this board have suggested - to the contrary.

 

A lot of the critique technique-wise is technical and over my head, but I gather Marino's principal reservation is that Brown's frame is too slender and that he lacks the core-strength necessary to play OT well.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dfx7J7_Gks&t=1122s

Yeah, I watched it.  You're right in that he never brought up slow feet, because he doesn't have slow feet.  The dude did a sub 7 second 3 cone drill at the Combine. 

 

As far a his technique, all Marino was saying is that his set and his engagement is too high much of the time.  He needs to drop his butt and have more knee bend to obtain better balance. Its been a criticism of Brown's, or more accurately, an area that needs improvement, since he came out of college.  Not an uncommon thing for someone that tall.

 

As far as his frame being too lean...idk.  Lane Johnson was 6'6" and a little over 300 lbs coming out of Oklahoma.  He's put on about 20lbs since then, mostly in his gut, but his frame is similar to Brown's.

 

Personally, I have my doubts about whether the back issue (which was never really explained too much), isn't fully resolved.  He looks very stiff, even more stiff than he did his rookie year.  If you've ever had a back injury, you'll know how bad stiffness can be. 

 

Im not as sure about the lack of reps or the lack of learning a new blocking scheme affected his ability to pass block.  He was thrown into the starting lineup early in his rookie year, and he looked better than last year.  

 

I understand why Beane is hopeful for him.  His physical talent, at least when drafted was Pro Bowl quality. It isn't a guy you want to give up on.  But he may be damaged goods due to his back. I hope not.  If Im Beane, I'd be having some come to Jesus talks with him, with the training staff, with his teammates, everyone I could to see how he is progressing.  I'd need to be very sure that he CAN progress physically. 

 

Because you can't have that type of play at RT. 

[blacklabel]

Aye carumba. Some of y'all act like they've got JV backups on this team. 

[papazoid]

typical coach speak

 

you support your guys 100%.....until you don't/ cut em

[JohnNord]

9 hours ago, jahnyc said:

I am not sue he has much of a choice but to suggest that this group will improve this season given the financial constraints he is operating under and the need to plug holes in the draft (such as MLB).  The unfortunate reality is that bargain basement free agents at RT, WR and DT are not likely to be upgrades over this current group.

 

With regard to Oliver, Beane has no choice but to keep and play Oliver since the team exercised his 5th year option and likely no team would want Oliver in a trade at that price point.  What will be interesting to see is whether early draft picks are used at some of these positions.  I would not be surprised if the Bills selected a DT in the first round, which would probably mean that keeping Oliver after this season is unlikely.  Same with WR and Gabe.  

I’ll agree with you on Oliver.  There really isn’t much a choice given his guaranteed salary and the level of play he’s shown on tape so far.  The Bills don’t think he makes enough plays for $10M but neither do other NFL teams.   
 

I would disagree with you on Brown and Davis.  While the Bills didn’t have the cap space to make a giant swing at top free agents - they also could have used the money they did have to sign better players to compete at RT and WR.  The best the Bills could do was David Quessenberry and Trent Sherfield?  
 

I think these decisions speak louder to confidence in these players than it does to running out of options 

9 hours ago, MJS said:

The roster isn't even set. The draft hasn't happened.

 

Shouldn't we wait until those things happen before we start hurling accusations?

Isn’t that the whole part of a discussion forum?  Almost every post on this site is speculation and/or an opinion.  
 

Also what accusations did I “hurl?”  That Beane has confidence in Davis, Brown, and Oliver - he literally said the exact thing in his press conference 

[JohnNord]

59 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

It could also very well be that Brown was a man amongst boys in the Missouri Valley conference, and that it simply hasn't translated to the NFL against competition that he simply never faced.  I mean how many DEs did he play on the opponents that they played that made it to the NFL.  I can't imagine many of any.  

 

I guess we'll find out. 

 

 

My concern is that he looked better during a stretch in his rookie year than he did at any point in 2022.  Maybe it was the injuries but the lack of NFL reps doesn’t seem to track

[Thurman#1]

4 minutes ago, papazoid said:

typical coach speak

 

you support your guys 100%.....until you don't/ cut em

 

 

No, it's not typical coach speak. It just isn't. 

 

Typical coach speak is as vague and unspecific as possible. "He gives it 100% all the time. Tough kid. Gives it his all. We like him. The whole defense has been very very ...." That's coach speak. 

 

On the other hand, when Beane is specific and long-winded with his praise on a guy, he means it.

 

And again, Beane is perfectly comfortable NOT supporting his guys 100% when they have a problem. Remember his thing a couple of years ago about how nobody was game-planning to stop our TE room? He's got zero problem expressing dissatisfaction. No, he's not going to say somebody is as lazy as the guard dog at a slaughterhouse, or that someone's dumb or that someone just doesn't have talent. 

 

But he's perfectly capable of expressing dis-satisfaction or that a guy still needs to improve. Does it reasonably often.

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

It could also very well be that Brown was a man amongst boys in the Missouri Valley conference, and that it simply hasn't translated to the NFL against competition that he simply never faced.  I mean how many DEs did he play on the opponents that they played that made it to the NFL.  I can't imagine many of any.  

 

I guess we'll find out. 

 

 

Sure but I was more referring to raw athleticism.   If I recall he's a physical freak size and strength wise.

[John from Riverside]

14 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

Aye carumba. Some of y'all act like they've got JV backups on this team. 

Basically, except for Tremaine Edmunds, not much is changed from this 13 and 3 team from last year

 

It’s kind of humorous to me to listen to some of them talk it’s like we were seven and nine

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

10 hours ago, JohnNord said:

I took another listen to the Brandon Beane interviews after the season and at the combine.  What stuck out to me was his defense of players than were much maligned by the fan base.  
 

In my opinion, the three of his former draft picks who didn’t “take the next step” in 2022, are being counted on to “take the next step” in 2023.  
 

This season will prove to see if The Bills faith in these players will be rewarded. 
 

Spencer Brown

Brown was the Bills worst lineman at times in 2022 which is notable considering how poorly Roger Saffold played.  
 

Still, Beane was effusive in his praise and defense of Brown.  He point blank said he had confidence in him and listed some reason for his poor performance in 2022.
 

These comments make me think that the Bills won’t invest a high draft pick at tackle and will again roll the dice that Brown greatly improves.  

Gabe Davis

Like Brown, Beane was quick to defend Gabe citing “unrealistic expectations” from his amazing playoff performance and a numbers of injuries. 

 

Losing faith in Davis as a true WR2, many fans wanted the Bills to make a big move.  Some foolish fans convinced themselves to believe the lying huckster on Twitter “ErieCountyBills” who said they were trading for DeAndre Hopkins.  All false hope.

 

It’s doubtful the Bills make a huge move at WR like OBJ or Hopkins given the context,    Because Davis is a FA in 2024 I can see a scenario where they draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.  But again, when it comes to WR2 in 2023, the Bills are putting their faith in Davis to improve yet again.  
 

Ed Oliver

Same story with Ed Oliver.   Nice player.  Not a difference maker unless he plays against a BAD offensive line…or on Thanksgiving.  

 

Beane again defended Oliver mentioning how the things he does go unnoticed and that he fought through injuries.  He did mention that he left “more meat on the bone.”  But Beane could have said this during any of Oliver’s seasons in Buffalo.  
 

Because of his guaranteed 5th year option, The Bills likely didn’t have a choice but to have faith in Oliver.  But I can definitely see the Bills use a higher draft selection on a DT given the contract situation.  
 

The concern for me, is that we’ve seen the Bills make similar excuses for players in the past and it hasn’t worked out (Star, Cody Ford, Zach Moss, AJ Epinesa, Boogie Basham).  IMO a big part of next season will be whether the faith the Bills placed in these former draft picks will pay off…

I wish we had a GM that trashed our current starting players and called them out to the media!  I mean, who wants to work for a guy that defends his employees and talks about their potential for improvement.  If only he knew as much about being a good GM as the doom and gloom fans and TBD posters

[JohnNord]

4 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

I wish we had a GM that trashed our current starting players and called them out to the media!  I mean, who wants to work for a guy that defends his employees and talks about their potential for improvement.  If only he knew as much about being a good GM as the doom and gloom fans and TBD posters

It isn’t just that he defended them…it’s how STRONGLY he defended and that his actions (or lack thereof) seem to back up his words.  
 

The whole point of this thread was that he did the same thing last season with these players.  It didn’t work out.  
 

This year there is more of a microscope on them.  He chose not to make any moves, so his faith may or may not pay off.  

[Shaw66]

I think a lot of fans tend to panic about this stuff.  First, as I've said a thousand times, this league is less about talent and more about coaching than people understand.   When you get to the right tackle, you're talking about guys who are not among the 20 best tackles in the league, because they're all left tackles.  When you get down below the top 20, you're talking about guys whose talent looks pretty much like the talent of the guys around him.   It's an ordinary bell curve distribution, and the difference between the 30th and the 40th best tackle in the league is not very great.   Same as the difference between the 30th and 40th best receiver.   Davis caught a lot of passes for a lot of yards last season, and many fans fail to recognize that his production puts him solidly in that 30th-40th best receiver category.   That's a good #2 to have.  

 

Second, fans rarely really understand how good or bad a player is.  We simply don't have the information or experience to evaluate guys the way the coaches do.   When I hear Beane on Brown, what I hear him saying is that they know his development, they've watched his development, and they think he's going to be better.   I have to trust that judgment, because I really don't know the first thing about what the Bills expect of their right tackle and how close he is. 

 

Third, fans in these conversations fail to recognize that players really do improve.   A guy like Brown, especially, with no quality high school experience and third-tier college experience and coaching, coming into a position where even the best college players are unprepared for what the NFL expects, simply is not going to be the player you want when he first steps on the field.  If he's a McDermott type, he's working and studying daily, and we haven't seen his full development yet.  

 

Fourth, when Beane says our starting middle linebacker is on the roster, he's saying something that's literally true today.   He's not saying that guy WILL be the starter; he's saying that if they had to name the roster today, the only guys they have to choose from are the guys who are on the roster.   Beane ALWAYS says he's looking to improve the roster at every position, and every player (except Allen) knows that he's always at risk of being replaced.   Dion Dawkins knows the Bills could go OT in the first round, and the guy they draft could challenge not only Brown but Dawkins, as well.  Davis, too, knows that the Bills could take a receiver in the first, and that receiver could be the eventual replacement for Diggs.   If that's who he is, he also could be the immediate replacement at #2.  The real point of what Beane says is that although he might take a linebacker or a receiver at #1, they've determined that they don't have a true need at those positions.   That's what allows the Bills to go BPA.  

 

I don't think what Beane has said to date should be understood that any position on the roster is safe. 

 

That said, we've seen and heard him enough not to expect that he won't go pure BPA in the first round.   I think they have to be looking for a tackle or a linebacker, and they will move to get one.  Possibly a receiver.   And, given their history, I won't be surprised to see them take a defensive lineman.

[JohnNord]

9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Basically, except for Tremaine Edmunds, not much is changed from this 13 and 3 team from last year

 

It’s kind of humorous to me to listen to some of them talk it’s like we were seven and nine

No one is saying that these three are bad players but you can certainly argue that they didn’t take the step forward that the team and fans had hoped.  
 

My biggest concern out of these three is Spencer Brown.  He was among the worst starting RT’s in the NFL.  He didn’t make much progress from year 1 to year 2.  
 

The Bills elected not to bring in any competition to push him.  He could end up like a Wyatt Teller….He could end up like a Cody Ford

[BillsVet]

10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Basically, except for Tremaine Edmunds, not much is changed from this 13 and 3 team from last year

 

It’s kind of humorous to me to listen to some of them talk it’s like we were seven and nine

 

Players get older, slower, don't heal from injuries as quickly, and generally are degrading every year.  It's the NFL.  Contracts are closer to expiring and new players must be integrated to replace those older players on the decline.  

 

Which means what worked last year is not a guarantee to succeed this coming season.   People don't like change, but if you're not improving you are regressing.  Status quo doesn't get it done in this world. 

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No, it's not typical coach speak. It just isn't. 

 

Typical coach speak is as vague and unspecific as possible. "He gives it 100% all the time. Tough kid. Gives it his all. We like him. The whole defense has been very very ...." That's coach speak. 

 

On the other hand, when Beane is specific and long-winded with his praise on a guy, he means it.

 

And again, Beane is perfectly comfortable NOT supporting his guys 100% when they have a problem. Remember his thing a couple of years ago about how nobody was game-planning to stop our TE room? He's got zero problem expressing dissatisfaction. No, he's not going to say somebody is as lazy as the guard dog at a slaughterhouse, or that someone's dumb or that someone just doesn't have talent. 

 

But he's perfectly capable of expressing dis-satisfaction or that a guy still needs to improve. Does it reasonably often.

 

I don't know why people don't get this.   Beane has a very clean line that divides what he will say and what he won't say, and Beane is about as frank and clear about how he sees players as any GM or coach I've heard.