ganesh Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 7 hours ago, GreggTX said: He's not very good. You can't build a good OL by signing only low quality linemen. At some point you need to sign good or elite linemen. We have too many low quality offensive linemen already. I think they have tried, but not been successful.. They drafted Cody Ford in Round 2 They drafted Spencer Brown in Round 3 They have drafted a bunch of other folks in 4-5-6 rounds Elite linemen are simply NOT available in FA. (the word being Elite). Teams don't let such players hit FA. The only people who hit FA are the likes of Stafford and Quesenbery's. The question is: Is a player ELITE because what he did in college and where he was drafted that makes them successful ? If so, the Bills Coaching staff should be blamed for not making ELITE OL from their draft picks. They have returned zero in *. Tremaine Edmunds *. Ed Oliver *. Groot *. Elam Quote
Thurman#1 Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said: The Bills overall evaluation of talent is questionable at best. And especially poor on both lines. That they think that Spencer Brown is good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl contender is curious at best, and down right negligent at worst? Fortunately we hit on an amazing QB. Because if not for Josh Allen, McBeane would have been working for LL Beane by now. "... overalll evaluation of talent if questionable at best"? Nonsense. The Bills went 13-3 last year. They're one of the best teams in the league. And while, yes, a lot of that is Allen, no, it's not all Allen, the team around him is very good. Yeah, Allen is a big part of it. But equally you can say the same thing for the Chiefs, Bengals, and on and on, really. Of course you need and excellent QB to compete. But you also need a good lineup. After some of the kvetching that goes on here, including yours, you'd swear they were a 3-13 team. Far from perfect, they're still damn good at talent evaluation, though they still need to get better (though every team in the league can and will say the same thing). We're likely to see RT competition addressed at some point, whether in the draft or in later FA. Certainly Brown wasn't good enough last year. But people who want to pretend that a guy with back surgery recovery and no real off-season before his second year was absolutely playing at his ceiling are just kidding themselves. 1 hour ago, ganesh said: I think they have tried, but not been successful.. They drafted Cody Ford in Round 2 They drafted Spencer Brown in Round 3 They have drafted a bunch of other folks in 4-5-6 rounds Elite linemen are simply NOT available in FA. (the word being Elite). Teams don't let such players hit FA. The only people who hit FA are the likes of Stafford and Quesenbery's. The question is: Is a player ELITE because what he did in college and where he was drafted that makes them successful ? If so, the Bills Coaching staff should be blamed for not making ELITE OL from their draft picks. They have returned zero in *. Tremaine Edmunds *. Ed Oliver *. Groot *. Elam Up till the end, reasonable. but to think they "returned zero" in Edmunds, Oliver, Groot and Elam is flagrant twaddle. Those were/are three mainstays of an excellent team and one future mainstay in Elam who was not there yet last year but shows every sign of being very good in the very near future if not immediately. Edited April 4, 2023 by Thurman#1 1 Quote
Utah John Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 Would signing him affect the third round pick Beane wants to get for the loss of Edmunds? Quote
PrimeTime101 Posted April 4, 2023 Author Posted April 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Utah John said: Would signing him affect the third round pick Beane wants to get for the loss of Edmunds? no. Quote
ProcessTruster Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 Brown will be RT this year. He'll be better than last year. 1 Quote
DCofNC Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 18 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: I wouldn't call the Bills talent evaluation "questionable at best." The Bills have won 10+ games four consecutive years - a feat the franchise has accomplished only once before in its long history. Apparently Beane isn't fielding JUCO kids out there. And you can't discount Allen - Beane maneuvered and got the guy he wanted. He deserves credit for that. With an above average W-L record, the evidence indicates the Bills are above-average in talent evaluation and acquisition. You say they think Brown is good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl team. I'm guessing you are not a board-certified mind-reader. What GMs and HCs say in public and what they think in private are two very different things. I personally have no idea of what they actually think of Brown. Clearly, Beane has made some mistakes - as all GMs do (I agree he's neglected the OL). And just as clearly, he hasn't been good enough (yet?) to build a SB-caliber roster. But suggesting that he'd be working for LL Beane now if not for Josh is a nice play on words but tremendously overblown. Beane is good at his job. The only question is he good enough? If Allen had busted, this whole regime would be gone. Without Allen this is a 6-7 win team AT BEST. 9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: "... overalll evaluation of talent if questionable at best"? Nonsense. The Bills went 13-3 last year. They're one of the best teams in the league. And while, yes, a lot of that is Allen, no, it's not all Allen, the team around him is very good. Yeah, Allen is a big part of it. But equally you can say the same thing for the Chiefs, Bengals, and on and on, really. Of course you need and excellent QB to compete. But you also need a good lineup. After some of the kvetching that goes on here, including yours, you'd swear they were a 3-13 team. Far from perfect, they're still damn good at talent evaluation, though they still need to get better (though every team in the league can and will say the same thing). We're likely to see RT competition addressed at some point, whether in the draft or in later FA. Certainly Brown wasn't good enough last year. But people who want to pretend that a guy with back surgery recovery and no real off-season before his second year was absolutely playing at his ceiling are just kidding themselves. Up till the end, reasonable. but to think they "returned zero" in Edmunds, Oliver, Groot and Elam is flagrant twaddle. Those were/are three mainstays of an excellent team and one future mainstay in Elam who was not there yet last year but shows every sign of being very good in the very near future if not immediately. Homer much? Quote
nosejob Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 (edited) I'd actually love it if they signed Fluker. If he's better than Brown ( which I would think) then Brown can go to swing and keep working on his game and we can get Qberry the Hell out of here. Fluker looks like he's gonna be a beast for someone....and Brown can learn from him. Edited April 4, 2023 by nosejob Quote
Fan in Chicago Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 17 minutes ago, DCofNC said: If Allen had busted, this whole regime would be gone. Without Allen this is a 6-7 win team AT BEST. Which would be the record reminiscent of the Whaley years. For all the sizzle, "process" and talks for building a roster, the only material difference is that McBeane selected Allen 1 Quote
RyanC883 Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 15 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said: I don't think Beane has tried to build the OL with jags. There has been 1st rounder Dawkins, highest paid Center Morse, 3rd rounder S Brown who had elite level RAS. They also tried 2nd rounder C Ford, and last year spent $6M on Saffold and matched Bates' offer. It may not have worked as planned but I don't think there has been this big intentional area of neglect that people seem to make it out to be. not neglect, just incompetence like with the DL, which ironically contributed to missing on all pro C/Gs. Quote
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 1 hour ago, DCofNC said: If Allen had busted, this whole regime would be gone. Without Allen this is a 6-7 win team AT BEST. Homer much? They did only allow 286 points - which if you add in a 3rd game at average they were probably 2nd in the league in points allowed. Despite the team being 31st in giveaways on offense. Despite major injuries to Miller, White, Hyde. They were by no means perfect, but they were still a top 10 defense. Yards per play 5.1 - top 10. 27 takeaways - Top 5 Opposing NY/A 5.6 - which is tied for 4th Rush Y/A 4.3 - Tied for 11th Scoring % allowed 31% - 3rd in the league Turnover % 14.3% - Which is 5th 3rd down % 37.6% - 7th in the league Red zone 44.9$ - 2nd in the league Denver's defense was very good at a lot of things on defense and they still finished pretty poorly so i assume its possible, but that would say that without Allen we would have the worst offense in the league. Possible - but if we don't have Allen we i assume have... someone else whos relatively starting caliber. 1 Quote
Einstein's Dog Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 56 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: not neglect, just incompetence like with the DL, which ironically contributed to missing on all pro C/Gs. "Incompetence" is rather harsh wording. The OL needs to get better, and Saffold was a miss. I was disappointed with Kromer, thought his addition would really show and I didn't see it. As for the DL, when healthy the DL is one of the best the Bills have ever had. Quote
RyanC883 Posted April 4, 2023 Posted April 4, 2023 5 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said: "Incompetence" is rather harsh wording. The OL needs to get better, and Saffold was a miss. I was disappointed with Kromer, thought his addition would really show and I didn't see it. As for the DL, when healthy the DL is one of the best the Bills have ever had. I don't know. The DL seems to be a victim of poor drafting/asset allocation: drafting Groot in the 1st (a decent player, a number 2 DE, not an impact guy by himself), then Basham, another #2 DE, a year after drafting AJ are huge misses. Quote
DCofNC Posted April 5, 2023 Posted April 5, 2023 11 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: They did only allow 286 points - which if you add in a 3rd game at average they were probably 2nd in the league in points allowed. Despite the team being 31st in giveaways on offense. Despite major injuries to Miller, White, Hyde. They were by no means perfect, but they were still a top 10 defense. Yards per play 5.1 - top 10. 27 takeaways - Top 5 Opposing NY/A 5.6 - which is tied for 4th Rush Y/A 4.3 - Tied for 11th Scoring % allowed 31% - 3rd in the league Turnover % 14.3% - Which is 5th 3rd down % 37.6% - 7th in the league Red zone 44.9$ - 2nd in the league Denver's defense was very good at a lot of things on defense and they still finished pretty poorly so i assume its possible, but that would say that without Allen we would have the worst offense in the league. Possible - but if we don't have Allen we i assume have... someone else whos relatively starting caliber. Guess you weren’t around for the 20 years before Allen huh? This team is a dumpster fire without him. 12 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said: Which would be the record reminiscent of the Whaley years. For all the sizzle, "process" and talks for building a roster, the only material difference is that McBeane selected Allen The two are not that different at all. 1 Quote
John from Riverside Posted April 5, 2023 Posted April 5, 2023 17 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Guess you weren’t around for the 20 years before Allen huh? This team is a dumpster fire without him. The two are not that different at all. Even if what you said is true, the mere fact that he did select Alan gives him a lot of latitude It would take a total collapse for our executor of the year GM to be going anywhere Quote
DCofNC Posted April 5, 2023 Posted April 5, 2023 10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Even if what you said is true, the mere fact that he did select Alan gives him a lot of latitude It would take a total collapse for our executor of the year GM to be going anywhere I know, which is why I wouldn’t actually mind a complete collapse. This system isn’t good enough to win it all. 1 Quote
John from Riverside Posted April 5, 2023 Posted April 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, DCofNC said: I know, which is why I wouldn’t actually mind a complete collapse. This system isn’t good enough to win it all. So you’re actually rooting for the bills to lose Got it Quote
DCofNC Posted April 5, 2023 Posted April 5, 2023 16 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: So you’re actually rooting for the bills to lose Got it Tough place to be in, I want them to win it all, I’m also quite sure this regime will not get it done. So it may require losing to finally win. 1 Quote
John from Riverside Posted April 5, 2023 Posted April 5, 2023 21 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Tough place to be in, I want them to win it all, I’m also quite sure this regime will not get it done. So it may require losing to finally win. Anybody that roots for losses it’s not a true fan You need to check your priorities 1 Quote
DCofNC Posted April 5, 2023 Posted April 5, 2023 11 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Anybody that roots for losses it’s not a true fan You need to check your priorities Priorities are winning a CHAMPIONSHIP, rigors season is just entertainment. This regime is not going to get it done. Quote
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