The Bills need worse recievers

[GunnerBill]

On 4/9/2024 at 8:50 PM, dave mcbride said:

I did a deep dive on the non-Patriot winners of the SB going back to 2006. Lots of late first rounders and second rounders across the board, and no one in the top half of the first round except for Mike Evans. One BIG caveat: Atlanta should never have lost to NE in the Feb 2017 SB, and they had a top ten pick at WR (Julio Jones).  Also, if Aaron Donald doesn't destroy the crappy o-lineman in front of him, Joe Burrow hits top ten pick Ja'maar Chase for the game winning TD because Ramsey fell down. But I digress.

 

2006: Indy - Harrison (1st, 18th overall), Reggie Wayne (30th overall)

2008: Pitt - Santonio Holmes (1st round, 25th overall), Hines Ward (3rd round)

2009: New Orleans - Robert Meacham (1st; 27th overall), Devery Henderson (2nd; 50th overall), Colsten (7th rounder)

2010: GB - Jordy Nelson (2nd; 36th overall); Greg Jennings (2nd, 52nd overall), Driver (seventh rounder), James Jones (3rd rounder)

2012: Baltimore - Torrey Smith (2nd, 58th overall) and a bunch of random free agents (e.g., Boldin)

2013: Seattle - Golden Tate (2nd, 60th overall), Doug Baldwin (undrafted), Jermaine Kearse (undrafted)

2015: Denver - Demariyus Thomas (1st, 22nd overall), Emmanuel Sanders (free agent)

2017: Philly - Nelson Agholor (1st, 20th overall), Alshon Jeffrey (FA), Torrey Smith (FA)

2019: KC - Tyreek Hill (5th rounder but obviously a top ten talent with off-field issues), Mecole Hardiman (2nd, 56th overall), Demarcus Robinson (4th), Sammy Watkins (FA) 

2020: TB: Mike Evans (1st, 8th overall), Godwin (3rd), Scotty Miller (6th), Antonio Brown (FA)

2021: Rams - Van Jefferson (2nd, 50th overall), Cupp (3rd), Woods (FA), OBJ (FA)

2022: KC - Skyy Moore (2nd, 54th overall), Valdes-Scantling (FA), Juju (FA), Justin Watson (FA), Mecole Hardimon (2nd) 

2023 KC - Rice (2nd, 55th overall), see 2022 KC (above) for the rest

 

Anyway, food for thought.

 

Thanks. It would be interesting to see the same exercise for Superbowl losers. You have already mentioned Jones and Chase, but the Eagles two years ago were one controversial (although correct) DPI away and AJ Brown was acquired by trading away a first round pick and they had a top 10 pick (who they traded up a couple of spots for) on the team too. Larry Fitz with the Kurt Warner Cardinals as well.... I'm not saying there is a ton but there are 3/4 Superbowls that went right down to the wire that totally flip that narrative. So while I am not saying it is worth nothing, it definitely isn't total proof of the hypothesis. 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Thanks. It would be interesting to see the same exercise for Superbowl losers. You have already mentioned Jones and Chase, but the Eagles two years ago were one controversial (although correct) DPI away and AJ Brown was acquired by trading away a first round pick and they had a top 10 pick (who they traded up a couple of spots for) on the team too. Larry Fitz with the Kurt Warner Cardinals as well.... I'm not saying there is a ton but there are 3/4 Superbowls that went right down to the wire that totally flip that narrative. So while I am not saying it is worth nothing, it definitely isn't total proof of the hypothesis. 

 

 

I completely agree.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Rashee Rice is actually  WR1?" Now?

 

Sorry, that's utter ridiculousness. When you get 938 yards with Pat Mahomes throwing to you, you're not a WR1.

 

Gabe Davis in his third year equalled Rice's TDs and was only 100 yards below him. Was anyone saying Davis was only 100 yards shy of a WR1 at the time? No, and for good reason. The kind of stats Rice put up - again, with Pat Mahomes throwing to him - are NOT WR1 stats. And not particularly close.

 

Rice "was huge for them in the playoffs,"| you say? Um, yeah? 262 yards (65.5 YPG over four games), 2 fumbles and 1 TD, and two runs for five yards, all in four games is "huge"? I think your idea of "huge" is significantly different from most. They were lucky to get both of those fumbles back or the story would have been much different. He was good in the playoffs. Not "huge," and not particularly close to "huge."

 

I guess you could say he was the #1 WR on the Kansas City Chiefs. Not that big a deal, though, when you see that the #2 WR on the Kansas City Chiefs, Justin Watson, put up all of 460 yards.

 

Now, is Rice a possible future #1? Yeah, he absolutely is. Hard to say how that will go, but there's a reasonable chance he reaches that level, possibly even this year, though the car crash case makes everything much less certain.

 

You're right he doesn't have to be 'elite.' He also didn't have to be a #1. He wasn't and they won a Lombardi.

 

Yes, the Chiefs brought in Rice, at pick 55, last year, and Skyy Moore at pick 54 the year before. And yes, they brought in Toney, but let's not pretend he was considered a sure thing. Sure things don't traded that early in their career. He was thought to be a guy who had a decent chance to be good if things went better for him in a new environment.

 

Toney put up 420 yards in his first year with the Giants and played in two games in the first half of his second year before being traded. Then 171 yards in KC in his second season.

 

The Chiefs brought in Rice, a solid guy, quite good for a rookie, at #55. And they won a Lombardi.

 

 

Rice playing like a WR1 for KC was just fact.......there isn't anything subjective about it.........he followed the typical path of young star receivers by getting much better as the season went on and despite a more typical rookie slow start he literally finished 28th in receiving yards amongst NFL WR and then played well in the playoffs continuing to catch nearly 80% of his targets and averaging more yards per game than he did over the course of the regular season.

 

Whether you approach it from how he was trending or just sheer production over high volume over the course of a full season,  it's the same conclusion.   Not elite, but a WR1 for that team and greater production than a number of teams got from any of their actual WR's.   

 

That he played with Patrick Mahomes doesn't change what he was..........anymore than Stefon Diggs not being an All Pro in Minnesota changes that he was one in Buffalo.   

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

One caveat.

 

Torell Troup was not a bad draft pick. Read this article. He was starting to really play well at training camp that year, and lots of Bills players were and are very vocal about that.

 

He injured his back and was advised to use painkillers and keep playing. This article is a harrowing but excellent read:

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/torell-troup-the-one-drafted-a-pick-ahead-of-rob-gronkowski/article_5b363410-dbdd-503c-a774-69fedf3d37d7.html

 

 

"Through the 2011 lockout, Troup trained with a vengeance. He reported to training camp at a chiseled 319 pounds, eager to break out. Practices began at St. John Fisher and the kid who had 23 tackles and no sacks the year prior was dominant for stretches.

 

“'Honestly, I was killing the offensive line,' Troup said. 'Eric Wood, I’m good friends with him, but they couldn’t handle me.'

 

"One day in the lunchroom, head coach Chan Gailey and General Manager Buddy Nix couldn’t contain their excitement. The two asked Troup to sit down with them and told this bull in a china shop they had no clue what he did over the offseason, but, wow, were they ecstatic to see this all transfer to game day.

 

"Their words added more fuel to Troup’s fire. His tear continued. Teammates today still remember Troup’s raw strength.

 

"'Low center of gravity,' guard Kraig Urbik said. 'Super strong. Legs were very thick. Strong dude – he was tough to move for sure.'

 

“'He was a strong dude,' Wood said.

 

“'Big, powerful guy,' added veteran Kyle Williams. 'He’s probably not your pass rusher, but a guy who could stack things up at the line and make plays at the line of scrimmage and do some good things there.'

 

 

... but a bit later ...

 

 

"Then, without warning, his world started to crumble down.

 

"In a one-on-one pass rushing drill against Wood, Troup used a head bob to freeze the center. He smacked Wood with his right arm and Troup’s hand snapped, breaking the bone underneath his right knuckle. Initially, Troup thought he jammed the finger. By the time he reached the trainers he said his hand looked like a baseball glove.

 

"Troup missed one week of practice, wrapped the paw in a club and was prepared to punctuate his knockout summer in the preseason finale against Detroit. To this day, he cannot pinpoint the play, the moment, but during this game he fractured his lower back.

 

“'I played all through the game doped up,' he said, 'so I couldn’t feel it.'

 

"On Wednesday, it felt like he pulled both hamstrings. He received an epidural. Tests later revealed the fracture. A disc in his back was slipping and pushing against nerves, causing burning and numbness down his legs.

 

"Troup sat out the first three weeks of the season and returned.

 

“ 'It’s easy to look back now and say, "I should have sat my ass down," ’  Troup said. 'But I was young. I was stupid. And it cost me my career.'

 

 

... and still later ...

 

 

"When Gronkowski was scoring more touchdowns than any tight end ever in 2011, Troup was, as he said, 'all doped up' on Toradol to survive Sundays. During the week, he chugged pain pills like Tic Tacs. Troup played that season with a fractured back – his disc slipping, jamming into nerves – enduring the most unthinkable pain he doesn’t wish upon his worst enemies.

Teammates told him to quit. Coaches, he claims, told him to play. So he played to the literal point of tears and the subsequent L4/L5 spinal fusion ended his career.

 

"He’s more casualty of a ruthless business than bust. More commodity chewed up and spit out by the NFL than outright failure. Each creak of a joint in the a.m. is his aching reminder of his season from hell.

 

“ 'They saw the pain that I was in, man,' Troup said. 'Being who I am, all I wanted to do was do what I was told. I never thought about talking back or saying I don’t want to play. No matter how much pain I was in, if they wanted me to play, I played. It went to where I couldn’t play no more.' ”

 

 

 

That was only about 20 - 30% of the Tyler Dunne article. Hell of an article, and if you don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for Troup after reading it, you're tougher than I am.

 

 

Yeah, he was a bad draft pick.   And done for the wrong reasons, a deep reach to address a specific need at a non-premium position.    6'3" 310 wasn't even a good size for a true 3-4 NT.      If you are using that high of a pick on a NT-only he better be a monster like Ted Washington.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Rice playing like a WR1 for KC was just fact.......there isn't anything subjective about it.........he followed the typical path of young star receivers by getting much better as the season went on and despite a more typical rookie slow start he literally finished 28th in receiving yards amongst NFL WR and then played well in the playoffs continuing to catch nearly 80% of his targets and averaging more yards per game than he did over the course of the regular season.

 

Whether you approach it from how he was trending or just sheer production over high volume over the course of a full season,  it's the same conclusion.   Not elite, but a WR1 for that team and greater production than a number of teams got from any of their actual WR's.   

 

That he played with Patrick Mahomes doesn't change what he was..........anymore than Stefon Diggs not being an All Pro in Minnesota changes that he was one in Buffalo.   

Yep. Over his final six games of the regular season, Rice had 43 catches on 56 targets for 518 yards and 3 TDs. That's 9.25 yards per target and a 77 percent catch rate. It also extrapolates to 121 catches for 1,467 yards and 9 TDs over a 17 game season.

 

In four playoff games, he had 26 catches on 33 targets and 262 yards plus 1 TD. 

 

Point is, young players do actually get better and more acclimated over the course of a season. 

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah, he was a bad draft pick.   And done for the wrong reasons, a deep reach to address a specific need at a non-premium position.    6'3" 310 wasn't even a good size for a true 3-4 NT.      If you are using that high of a pick on a NT-only he better be a monster like Ted Washington.

Looking at the pictures of the more recent players on this list, you definitely begin to see evidence of Parcell's "planet theory" for the NT position. Most of the more recent guys are absolute monsters, size-wise: https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-best-nose-tackles-in-nfl-history.html.

Edited April 11 by dave mcbride

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Rice playing like a WR1 for KC was just fact.......there isn't anything subjective about it.........he followed the typical path of young star receivers by getting much better as the season went on and despite a more typical rookie slow start he literally finished 28th in receiving yards amongst NFL WR and then played well in the playoffs continuing to catch nearly 80% of his targets and averaging more yards per game than he did over the course of the regular season.

 

Whether you approach it from how he was trending or just sheer production over high volume over the course of a full season,  it's the same conclusion.   Not elite, but a WR1 for that team and greater production than a number of teams got from any of their actual WR's.   

 

That he played with Patrick Mahomes doesn't change what he was..........anymore than Stefon Diggs not being an All Pro in Minnesota changes that he was one in Buffalo.   

 

 

You're right. There isn't anything subjective about it. It's dead wrong.

 

Again, you're right that Rashee Rice was the #1 WR for that particular team, but for a team whose number two WR managed less than 500 yards, this is not a significant accomplishment. It simply shows they didn't have a true #1 on the team, or anything close.

 

Hell, if being the best WR on your particular team makes you a WR1, then BADOL's WR1 list has to include Marquise Brown in Arizona, because his 574 yards led that team. Drake London is a #1 by that measure, and Jerry Jeudy. Jayden Reed led his WR group, he must be a #1 also. DeMario Douglas beat out all the other Pats receivers with more than 500 yards. By your reasoning here, he must be a #1 also. And Darius Slayton. Strong group of #1s you've got there, Badol.

 

Rice simply wasn't productive enough to be considered a #1.

 

And you can go on kidding yourself about the playoffs if you must, but a total over four games of 65 yards per game, two fumbles they were lucky enough to recover and 1 TD isn't anything faintly like "huge," as, you claim, not even in the same zip code. It is a very solid and decent total, but solid and decent doesn't make you a #1.

 

Could he be headed in that direction? Yeah, sure, it's very possible. He had a really good year for a rookie. Not a #1 yet, though. The idea's ridiculous.

 

Edited April 12 by Thurman#1

[Beck Water]

22 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Rice playing like a WR1 for KC was just fact.......there isn't anything subjective about it.........he followed the typical path of young star receivers by getting much better as the season went on and despite a more typical rookie slow start he literally finished 28th in receiving yards amongst NFL WR and then played well in the playoffs continuing to catch nearly 80% of his targets and averaging more yards per game than he did over the course of the regular season.

 

To this point - Rice's season graphs out as the inverse of Diggs.  First 8 games, he averaged 45 YPG which would project to 722 yds over 16 games.

Second 8 games, he averaged 72 YPG which would project to 1154 YPG.  That would slot him in as #14 for receiving yards, right behind....Stefon Diggs

 

Playoffs the argument gets a bit more tenuous.  First game, 8 of 12 for 130 yds, and a TD, great game.  Second game, 4 of 4 for 47 yds, almost 12 Y/R, solid.  AFCCG and Superbowl, bunch of short catches so yea! he caught everything but he also fumbled twice, and it was luck those weren't recovered by the opponent.

I think the whole season counts, but it's fact that Rice was trending up as the season went on, and looks promising to become a #1 WR for KC - if his legal troubles don't derail him.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You're right. There isn't anything subjective about it. It's dead wrong.

 

Again, you're right that Rashee Rice was the #1 WR for that particular team, but for a team whose number two WR managed less than 500 yards, this is not a significant accomplishment. It simply shows they didn't have a true #1 on the team, or anything close.

 

Hell, if being the best WR on your particular team makes you a WR1, then BADOL's WR1 list has to include Marquise Brown in Arizona, because his 574 yards led that team. Drake London is a #1 by that measure, and Jerry Jeudy. Jayden Reed led his WR group, he must be a #1 also. DeMario Douglas beat out all the other Pats receivers with more than 500 yards. By your reasoning here, he must be a #1 also. And Darius Slayton. Strong group of #1s you've got there, Badol.

 

Rice simply wasn't productive enough to be considered a #1.

 

And you can go on kidding yourself about the playoffs if you must, but a total over four games of 65 yards per game, two fumbles they were lucky enough to recover and 1 TD isn't anything faintly like "huge," as, you claim, not even in the same zip code. It is a very solid and decent total, but solid and decent doesn't make you a #1.

 

Could he be headed in that direction? Yeah, sure, it's very possible. He had a really good year for a rookie. Not a #1 yet, though. The idea's ridiculous.

 

 

 

Hopefully the direction he's headed in is incarceration.    What he did warrants it.    So whether he is a WR1 in the future or not, who knows, lot's of WR's have outstanding starts and flame out.   But yes, he filled that WR1 role more than adequately for KC as a rookie.   People act like they had no receivers the past 2 seasons but they had at least 2 pass catchers in the top 32 in production.......something only a handful of other teams could say(obviously)..........and in each case they were extremely high efficiency players and made a big impact for them in the playoffs.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Hopefully the direction he's headed in is incarceration.    What he did warrants it.    So whether he is a WR1 in the future or not, who knows, lot's of WR's have outstanding starts and flame out.   But yes, he filled that WR1 role more than adequately for KC as a rookie.   People act like they had no receivers the past 2 seasons but they had at least 2 pass catchers in the top 32 in production.......something only a handful of other teams could say(obviously)..........and in each case they were extremely high efficiency players and made a big impact for them in the playoffs.

I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt he goes to jail. Seems like a Marshawn Lynch sort of thing (although I realize there are differences in the cases), and nothing happened to him after his vehicular mishap except getting traded and subsequently becoming an NFL legend.

[BADOLBILZ]

59 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt he goes to jail. Seems like a Marshawn Lynch sort of thing (although I realize there are differences in the cases), and nothing happened to him after his vehicular mishap except getting traded and subsequently becoming an NFL legend.

 

 

Perhaps,  but this was a lot more brazen than what Lynch did.    Lynch didn't even own up to driving he car to my knowledge and there was no video.   It was a glancing blow and not a lot of other proof other than the accounts of some people who were also presumably out boozing.  This was an outright wreck of cars in broad daylight that he admitted to causing with supporting video of it and him fleeing the scene and phone record of him calling the rental car company to tell them he wrecked the car as he was walking away.  They know for a fact where he was at before the accident (bar) and he admitted driving.  Up to 8 felony counts.    There is a lot more there for the legal system to work with than the Lynch case.

[Nephilim17]

I don't think "worse" receivers is a good plan but not having an elite number one but having three very good weapons helps diversify the attack, keeps Josh from trying to force it to someone, and that's a more sustainable model.

If an elite guy wants top dollar or becomes a locker room issue or distraction, he's likely going to get it or force a move, and perhaps a trade without fair compensation for the seller. And he's harder to replace.

 

If one of three good to very good players wants an unreasonable or untenable raise, trade him and it's easier to replace him as there are more good/very good guys available than elite ones, of course.

This isn't a mandate to get "worse," just an acceptance that not having a top-3 receiver can still mean we've got a strong and sustainable WR room.

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Perhaps,  but this was a lot more brazen than what Lynch did.    Lynch didn't even own up to driving he car to my knowledge and there was no video.   It was a glancing blow and not a lot of other proof other than the accounts of some people who were also presumably out boozing.  This was an outright wreck of cars in broad daylight that he admitted to causing with supporting video of it and him fleeing the scene and phone record of him calling the rental car company to tell them he wrecked the car as he was walking away.  They know for a fact where he was at before the accident (bar) and he admitted driving.  Up to 8 felony counts.    There is a lot more there for the legal system to work with than the Lynch case.

I hear you, but with these vehicle cases, unless there's a corpse and a bottle of Hennessy involved, pro athletes seem to almost always evade the jailhouse. Also, it's Texas, and he's a local guy who was a star for SMU. Call me cynical, but ...   

[Billl]

On 4/10/2024 at 5:54 PM, HappyDays said:

 

So your opinion is that if the Bills entered the 2024 season as is, our passing offense would look better than last year?

Not at all.  The OP’s point was that the Bills would be better off spending money building a defense and letting Josh work with less expensive receivers.  My post quoted people spiking the football after the Chiefs lost in the regular season due to poor offensive performances, yours included.  Turns out ZV may have been onto something.  

 

I’ve said many times here that elite receivers are going to get theirs no matter who the QB is.  There’s a case to be made that giving massive contracts to those guys when you’ve got a superstar QB is a waste of resources.  But that has nothing to do with the posts I quoted which all amounted to “haha, Kansas City struggled offensively so clearly the OP is wrong”.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Not at all.  The OP’s point was that the Bills would be better off spending money building a defense and letting Josh work with less expensive receivers.  My post quoted people spiking the football after the Chiefs lost in the regular season due to poor offensive performances, yours included.  Turns out ZV may have been onto something.  

 

I’ve said many times here that elite receivers are going to get theirs no matter who the QB is.  There’s a case to be made that giving massive contracts to those guys when you’ve got a superstar QB is a waste of resources.  But that has nothing to do with the posts I quoted which all amounted to “haha, Kansas City struggled offensively so clearly the OP is wrong”.

 

So because of the Patriots dynasty, teams should only draft QBs late on day three. Right?

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Not at all.  The OP’s point was that the Bills would be better off spending money building a defense and letting Josh work with less expensive receivers.  My post quoted people spiking the football after the Chiefs lost in the regular season due to poor offensive performances, yours included.  Turns out ZV may have been onto something.  

 

I’ve said many times here that elite receivers are going to get theirs no matter who the QB is.  There’s a case to be made that giving massive contracts to those guys when you’ve got a superstar QB is a waste of resources.  But that has nothing to do with the posts I quoted which all amounted to “haha, Kansas City struggled offensively so clearly the OP is wrong”.

Not to change the subject, but how happy were you when the Order of Little Sisters of the Poor showed up to start at Linebacker for the Bills against KC in the playoffs? 🤔😊

[Billl]

1 minute ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Not to change the subject, but how happy were you when the Order of Little Sisters of the Poor showed up to start at Linebacker for the Bills against KC in the playoffs? 🤔😊

Very

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So because of the Patriots dynasty, teams should only draft QBs late on day three. Right?

Of course not.  They should draft them at pick 10.

[90sBills]

11 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

To this point - Rice's season graphs out as the inverse of Diggs.  First 8 games, he averaged 45 YPG which would project to 722 yds over 16 games.

Second 8 games, he averaged 72 YPG which would project to 1154 YPG.  That would slot him in as #14 for receiving yards, right behind....Stefon Diggs

 

Playoffs the argument gets a bit more tenuous.  First game, 8 of 12 for 130 yds, and a TD, great game.  Second game, 4 of 4 for 47 yds, almost 12 Y/R, solid.  AFCCG and Superbowl, bunch of short catches so yea! he caught everything but he also fumbled twice, and it was luck those weren't recovered by the opponent.

I think the whole season counts, but it's fact that Rice was trending up as the season went on, and looks promising to become a #1 WR for KC - if his legal troubles don't derail him.

His production arc made sense. KC was spreading the snaps around in the first part of the season. It wasn’t until after the Patriots game that they shelved guys like Toney and Sky Moore while giving their snaps to Rice. It turned out to be a very good decision by their coaches.

 

Making bad decisions is part of being young. Rice was fortunate no one got seriously hurt. Hopefully the young man can learn from his mistake and change his ways. If not he might not be so lucky next time. 

[Rampant Buffalo]

On 4/1/2023 at 8:10 PM, Zerovoltz said:

I think it would be better if you moved Diggs for all you could possibly get, go sign a couple vets who need to prove it, who have maybe some low self esteem because they've fallen out of favor due to injury etc....get a couple mid level guys who you know are good pros.  Let ALLEN run the team.. let HIM dictate the best place for the ball to go. 

 

Let's look at the NFL's dynasty teams. By "dynasty" I mean at least 3 Super Bowl wins with at least some core players overlapping between Super Bowl wins.

 

1970s. Steelers. 4 Super Bowl wins.

1980s. 49ers. 4 Super Bowl wins.

1990s. Dallas Cowboys. 3 Super Bowl wins.

2001 - 2020. Patriots. 6 Super Bowl wins.

2021 - present. Chiefs. 3 Super Bowl wins and counting.

 

Now let's look at the receivers and TEs those teams had.

 

1970s Steelers. Two Hall of Fame WRs.

1980s 49ers. Jerry Rice for the second half of their dynasty.

1990s Cowboys. Michael Irvin (Hall of Fame), plus a Pro Bowl TE (Jay Novacek)

2000s Patriots. Early on, their defense was better than their offense, and I don't recall them having any memorable receivers. But then their offense improved, and they got Rob Gronkowski, a top 3 all time TE. Also Edelman, a very solid WR. And Wes Welker, another good WR.

2021 - present Chiefs. They have Kelce, a top 3 all time TE. Early in their dynasty they had Tyreek Hill, an elite WR. Now they have Rice, a solid #1 WR.

 

Based on the above, it would appear that if you want to have a dynasty team, you need either a) a Hall of Fame WR, OR b) a top 3 all time TE, plus a solid #1 WR. I completely agree with your idea of trading away Diggs, but I don't want to see the Bills get worse at WR.

 

[Zerovoltz]

On 4/1/2023 at 7:10 PM, Zerovoltz said:

That isn't a typo.

 

Josh Allen is elite now.  Diggs served his purpose, much like Tyreek Hill served his in Kansas City.  They gave shooting star QB's reliable, talented targets they could confidently throw to, helping to establish confidence and develop the QB's mental game.  

 

Hill complained after being traded (at least he watied to make this public when he was already gone) that he wasn't being focused on enough, or getting enough targets...etc.

The Chiefs traded him away, used the assets and cap space to improve other parts of the team, AND then went out and performed even better on offense.  I strongly believe that a reason why this happend is becasue Mahomes was entirely free to run each and every play with the idea that making the most optimal throw is what mattered.  Not to massage an ego or placate a guy wanting a larger role etc.  You can make a strong case KC's WR room isn't any great shakes.  I'd agree with that.  They don't need to be.  Zach Wilson isn't our QB....and he's not the Bills QB either.  Josh Freaking Allen is.  Allen doesn't need elite, high cots WR's to shine now.   

 

I know the Bills are committed to this season as an all in, all chips to the middle of the table type season....that's fine.  I wouldn't even say that it's a bad idea....but I think it would be better if you moved Diggs for all you could possibly get, go sign a couple vets who need to prove it, who have maybe some low self esteem because they've fallen out of favor due to injury etc....get a couple mid level guys who you know are good pros.  Let ALLEN run the team.. let HIM dictate the best place for the ball to go.  It's his job to run as efficient, well managed offense as he possibly can....not make sure pouting WR's see the ball X number of times a game.

 

Use the resources to add to your team in areas that Allen doesn't directly impact, like the defense etc.  If the guys work out...they move on, sign big deal somewhere else...and you reload with a couple more dudes who need to prove it again.  There is never a shortage of these guys and they overplay their contracts consistantly.  Plus, you'll be supplimenting these WR's with WR's you draft who are cheap and cost controlled.  

 

ALLEN is it. He's why you are 3rd best odds to win Super Bowl this upcoming season.. LEAN INTO IT.

this is EXACTLY what I was talking about.  Bills looking really really good so far.

[TPS]

44 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

this is EXACTLY what I was talking about.  Bills looking really really good so far.

Nice call.