Optimizing Dawson Knox

[Chaos]

Dawson Knox is paid like a star player.  He has certainly flashed star talent. And he seems like a wonderful human being. I feel like the Bills don't get the expected production of out his salary level because he needs to help in pass protection too much.  A couple of questions which I am sure the more technical football analysts at TBD can help answer. 

1)If we simply add a solid tackle, and handle protections that way, does Knox automatically become more productive
2)If we added a big blocking TE like Darnell Washington, would that make Knox able to be more productive as the pass catching TE/someitme slot receiver

3)If we added both a solid tackel and a blocking TE like Darnell Washington, could Knox's pass catching protection grow to the Kelce/Gronk level? 

I feel like Knox is a break out star waiting to happen, but if it doesn't this year, it probably never will. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Chaos

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Simple answer. No.

[78thealltimegreat]

7 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Dawson Knox is paid like a star player.  He has certainly flashed star talent. And he seems like a wonderful human being. I feel like the Bills don't get the expected production of out his salary level because he needs to help in pass protection too much.  A couple of questions which I am sure the more technical football analysts at TBD can help answer. 

1)If we simply add a solid tackle, and handle protections that way, does Knox automatically become more productive
2)If we added a big blocking TE like Darnell Washington, would that make Know able to be more productive as the pass catching TE/someitme slot receiver

3)If we added both a solid tackel and a blocking TE like Darnell Washington, could Knox's pass catching protection grow to the Kelce/Gronk level? 

I feel like Knox is a break out star waiting to happen, but if it doesn't this year, it probably never will. 

Dawson has talent I can forgive the early part of the season what he was dealing with outside of football cause my goodness that had to have an impact on him.
The thing about him though is hands are inconsistent he can make an amazing catch but he drops easy ones.

Hes definitely paid like a Top5 TE and I think he would really benefit from adding a solid number 2 TE.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

He’s not as fluid as Kelce in and out of his breaks but he is close. If we traded Knox to KC and Kelce was out for the season I would expect to see crazy numbers from Knox.

 

He is also going through a lot with his brother passing, I know I would never be the same after something like that. I wish nothing but the best for Knox.

[Augie]

I agree he seems underutilized. I really don’t know how much is because he had to help block, and how much is scheme related in the passing game. I was higher on him than most back when he had the dropsies, and I think a big year is possible if they decide to use him. Improve the OL and Knox AND the running game will benefit immensely. Side benefit: Josh will spend less time in the ice bath and working with the trainers. 

 

Also, I know about the drops and everything else, but I’m higher on Gabe Davis than most as well. We could see a big jump in our offense if we can get these guys involved in a productive way. Let us pray Dorsey is up to the challenge and grows into the job. I don’t like to waste seasons learning, but I don’t like to change for the sake of change because I’m frustrated either. 

[Yantha]

16 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Dawson Knox is paid like a star player.  He has certainly flashed star talent. And he seems like a wonderful human being. I feel like the Bills don't get the expected production of out his salary level because he needs to help in pass protection too much.  A couple of questions which I am sure the more technical football analysts at TBD can help answer. 

1)If we simply add a solid tackle, and handle protections that way, does Knox automatically become more productive
2)If we added a big blocking TE like Darnell Washington, would that make Know able to be more productive as the pass catching TE/someitme slot receiver

3)If we added both a solid tackel and a blocking TE like Darnell Washington, could Knox's pass catching protection grow to the Kelce/Gronk level? 

I feel like Knox is a break out star waiting to happen, but if it doesn't this year, it probably never will. 

 

Follow KC's formula for Kelce.  Kelce doesn't have a blocking TE.  Just a good offensive line.  

[Simon Says]

16 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Dawson Knox is paid like a star player.  He has certainly flashed star talent. And he seems like a wonderful human being. I feel like the Bills don't get the expected production of out his salary level because he needs to help in pass protection too much.  A couple of questions which I am sure the more technical football analysts at TBD can help answer. 

1)If we simply add a solid tackle, and handle protections that way, does Knox automatically become more productive
2)If we added a big blocking TE like Darnell Washington, would that make Know able to be more productive as the pass catching TE/someitme slot receiver

3)If we added both a solid tackel and a blocking TE like Darnell Washington, could Knox's pass catching protection grow to the Kelce/Gronk level? 

I feel like Knox is a break out star waiting to happen, but if it doesn't this year, it probably never will. 

I don't expect to add a TE that will take targets away from Diggs. If you run MORE 2 TE sets,I don't assume that will lead to more scoring .

Perhaps a serious upgrade at RT would do the trick.

[Chaos]

6 minutes ago, Herb Nightly said:

I don't expect to add a TE that will take targets away from Diggs. If you run MORE 2 TE sets,I don't assume that will lead to more scoring .

Perhaps a serious upgrade at RT would do the trick.

I think Dawson is designed more like a reciever than a blocker. Think TE Jimmy Graham. 

[nosejob]

29 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Dawson Knox is paid like a star player.  He has certainly flashed star talent. And he seems like a wonderful human being. I feel like the Bills don't get the expected production of out his salary level because he needs to help in pass protection too much.  A couple of questions which I am sure the more technical football analysts at TBD can help answer. 

1)If we simply add a solid tackle, and handle protections that way, does Knox automatically become more productive
2)If we added a big blocking TE like Darnell Washington, would that make Know able to be more productive as the pass catching TE/someitme slot receiver

3)If we added both a solid tackel and a blocking TE like Darnell Washington, could Knox's pass catching protection grow to the Kelce/Gronk level? 

I feel like Knox is a break out star waiting to happen, but if it doesn't this year, it probably never will. 

2) would kill 2 birds with one stone....

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, nosejob said:

2) would kill 2 birds with one stone....

I find Darnell Washington intriguing. I think he could be the perfect pairing with Knox. 

[Dr. Who]

I think Darnell Washington would compliment Knox by providing superior blocking with an adequate RZ threat. He would also allow Dorsey to incorporate more 12 personnel looks. I do believe it would allow Knox to operate more as an offensive threat.

[Beck Water]

34 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Dawson Knox is paid like a star player.  He has certainly flashed star talent. And he seems like a wonderful human being. I feel like the Bills don't get the expected production of out his salary level because he needs to help in pass protection too much.  A couple of questions which I am sure the more technical football analysts at TBD can help answer. 

1)If we simply add a solid tackle, and handle protections that way, does Knox automatically become more productive
2)If we added a big blocking TE like Darnell Washington, would that make Know able to be more productive as the pass catching TE/someitme slot receiver

3)If we added both a solid tackel and a blocking TE like Darnell Washington, could Knox's pass catching protection grow to the Kelce/Gronk level? 

I feel like Knox is a break out star waiting to happen, but if it doesn't this year, it probably never will. 

 

So many moving pieces!

 

1) if there's less need for Knox to chip and block, I would hope he could become more productive in the passing game

2) BUT, the other questions are

- how is Dorsey using Knox in the passing game?  I can't point at metrics, but my sense is that Dorsey was not as good at scheming the TE open than Daboll, and Daboll was not as good as Reid/his offensive assistants are.

- has Knox himself developed the physical aspect of his game running routes?   He developed this "Rambo" rep after he trucked and ran over a couple guys early in his career, but I don't think he scores very high on the route separation metrics.  The Cover1 guys pointed out a couple times that despite the Rambo reputation, he really isn't a very physical player.  He doesn't try  the subtle (and sometimes not subtle) push offs and arm-overs and so forth of a Kelce.  He's developed in the last couple years but has he developed enough?

- If he's well used in the scheme and physical/polished enough in his route running to get open, WILL ALLEN TARGET HIM?  I need to take off my shoes to count the number of times last season I saw Knox nicely open underneath while Allen chose a much riskier throw - but Knox would have either gained solid yardage making it 2nd or 3rd and short, or even gained the 1D.

 

Great questions, but too many unknowns to answer

Edited March 31, 2023 by Beck Water

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

So many moving pieces!

 

1) if there's less need for Knox to chip and block, I would hope he could become more productive in the passing game

2) BUT, the other questions are

- how is Dorsey using Knox in the passing game?  I can't point at metrics, but my sense is that Dorsey was not as good at scheming the TE open than Daboll, and Daboll was not as good as Reid/his offensive assistants are.

- has Knox himself developed the physical aspect of his game running routes?   He developed this "Rambo" rep after he trucked and ran over a couple guys early in his career, but I don't think he scores very high on the route separation metrics.  The Cover1 guys pointed out a couple times that despite the Rambo reputation, he really isn't a very physical player.  He doesn't try  the subtle (and sometimes not subtle) push offs and arm-overs and so forth of a Kelce.  He's developed in the last couple years but has he developed enough?

- If he's well used in the scheme and physical/polished enough in his route running to get open, WILL ALLEN TARGET HIM?  I need to take off my shoes to count the number of times last season I saw Knox nicely open underneath while Allen chose a much riskier throw - but Knox would have either gained solid yardage making it 2nd or 3rd and short, or even gained the 1D.

 

Great questions, but too many unknowns to answer

I can't answer the enigma of how Allen is seeing the game. It seemed at the end of the 2021 season he was seeing the field well and taking the short stuff in addition to the kill shots. Whether it was injury, porous oline, Dorsey's playcalling, he just was never in control like that for most of 2022. I remember yelling at the telly for Josh to throw to Knox and for some reason he didn't listen . . . I thought I recalled reading that Dorsey had familiarity with 12 personnel looks and it was thought he would favor them. I'm too lazy to research it right now, I don't think it's a delusion.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I can't answer the enigma of how Allen is seeing the game. It seemed at the end of the 2021 season he was seeing the field well and taking the short stuff in addition to the kill shots. Whether it was injury, porous oline, Dorsey's playcalling, he just was never in control like that for most of 2022. I remember yelling at the telly for Josh to throw to Knox and for some reason he didn't listen . . . I thought I recalled reading that Dorsey had familiarity with 12 personnel looks and it was thought he would favor them. I'm too lazy to research it right now, I don't think it's a delusion.

 

Helpful Hint: Josh can’t hear you thru the Telly. But my neighbors can hear me. 

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

Seems like Josh just prefers to throw to the WR's. I believe he targets Knox as frequent as Mckenzie.

 

We are ranked last in percentage IIRC.

 

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/targets-distribution/

[nosejob]

28 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I find Darnell Washington intriguing. I think he could be the perfect pairing with Knox. 

Like having a 2nd RT...great run blocker....and a short to intermediate outlet and end zone target. While I would love Kincaid, I'd also be happy with LaPorta as

another receiving weapon....IDK

 

 

21 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I can't answer the enigma of how Allen is seeing the game. It seemed at the end of the 2021 season he was seeing the field well and taking the short stuff in addition to the kill shots. Whether it was injury, porous oline, Dorsey's playcalling, he just was never in control like that for most of 2022. I remember yelling at the telly for Josh to throw to Knox and for some reason he didn't listen . . . I thought I recalled reading that Dorsey had familiarity with 12 personnel looks and it was thought he would favor them. I'm too lazy to research it right now, I don't think it's a delusion.

I believe that was referring to when he played.

 

 He had Shockey and  Kellen Winslow  Checked out the 2001 Miami roster.....WOW...unbelievable.

Edited March 31, 2023 by nosejob

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Helpful Hint: Josh can’t hear you thru the Telly. But my neighbors can hear me. 

Yes, that was supposed to be a self-deprecating joke. I now live out in the country, so it's mainly rural barnyard creatures that wonder why the mad man is shouting at the electric box.

5 minutes ago, nosejob said:

Like having a 2nd RT...great run blocker....and a short to intermediate outlet and end zone target. While I would love Kincaid, I'd also be happy with LaPorta as

another receiving weapon....IDK

 

 

Didn't he have Shockey and another famous TE?

I wasn't thinking about his playing days, yes, you are correct. Distracted, because I am trying to follow Devon Levi's debut. Pitching a shoutout after one.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Best TE since the merger and terribly underutilized. 

[RunTheBall]

I don’t have the numbers but Joe Marino did a deep dive on this towards the end of the season. The gist of it is that Knox has NOT been kept in to block, his drop issue has improved significantly, and he is open on routes. Dorsey does not have him high in the progression and Josh reads deep to short. He absolutely needs to be emphasized more in the passing game and not as an outlet. That’s on Dorsey. Josh has said himself when they get Knox involved the offense flows much smoother.

 

[Brand J]

Someone had posted the percentage of routes Knox ran Daboll’s last season and the first under Dorsey and they were nearly identical. It showed Knox wasn’t staying in to block as much as some here believe, he’s just not getting the ball. Also can’t recall where, but the numbers said that Knox had among the highest separation when running routes, same with the rookie Khalil Shakir, and neither one of them get the looks. That’s a Josh issue, he needs to get better with his reads. I maintain that I didn’t like Knox’s contract at the time it was signed because Josh has never been reliant on the TE and Knox was going into his first year in Dorsey’s system. We overpaid on his extension, he would’ve got far less if he was a FA this offseason.