Like many here, Jim Kelly says JA can’t do it all. Here’s his solution

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Star RB adds a different dimension to the attack, IMO. They already have a star WR in Diggs and Knox, Davis, Shakir, are plenty capable. All else being equal, I would rather have star RB who can take it to the house from anywhere or set the tone in a physical way.

 

I like Ekeler because I really think the key is to use the RB as a weapon in the passing game. Even if Ekler only lasts a season I think the long-term positive impact of having Allen throw to a RB 70+ times is priceless. Get it entrenched in him. We want Allen to use his legs less, right? A lot of that is going to mean getting the ball out to the RB's. Supposedly McD and Beane are preaching Allen using his legs less. So, what is their solution? Just hand the ball off up the middle more but don't throw to the backs more? That's a terrible solution. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[DrPJax]

12 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I’ll defer to the Hall of Famer. But for the record he also played with Reed (a route running savant) and Lofton (proven deep threat) at the same time during the early Super Bowl run. 

         There is no BUT  here.  ALLEN has Diggs who is a better receiver , route runner than Reed. What he cant do better is break tackles and reed routes were more crossing , reed being more physical and had more RAC as he could take contact. He never just went down or OOB, like Diggs is prone too, but Diggs is technically a better technical route runner who is prob better catching , but his rac is noe like reeds.  Still , Allen has a comparable #1. Lofton was at the end of his career , was good on straight go routes, and had better hands than Davis. Davis can’t separate like lofton , yet really lofton had maybe 1 or two good years , so if Davis could catch , the two wr could be just as productive as a very aging lofton was. Beebe was the real burner and was used as the 3 , not just slot only. He had some great games but was not a hugely consistent producer.   They did have 2 TE’S with METZALLARS, MCKELLER , both being better blockers than huge producers in the passing game. Dawkins is not the blocker , but has more speed and better hands and is an under utilized weapon by the current OC.   Last year ALLEN had no consistent 3 rd guy to keep this PREDOMINANTLY PASSING OFFENSE being able to be great at short yardage or in goa line situations.  

 

       To prove how great ALLEN IS , this team has a porous o line ( the Kelly BILLS had great o lines , remember Kelly was slow compared to Allen , not nearly having the speed or escapability that ALLEN has. ). That is more the real difference rather than receivers being so much better in the Kelly era. Kelly had time , last YEAR ALLEN was under siege almost every play.    But also the huge difference , that o line blew open holes for Thurman who lead the league in yards from scrimmage for 3 consecutive seasons!  

       Thurman had speed , power , could pass protect , was dependable in short yardage and around the goal line.  His other big advantage was he had great hands, was great running screens  and was also a reliable receiver with wheel routes and he was money on third downs.  DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A BACK OR PRODUCTION FROM THE BACKFIELD AT ANY TIME DURING BEANE / McD regime ?  Of course not. They get the majority of production from ALLEN PASSING AND RUNNING , and it is easier to stop one player , or if that one player has a sub par performance , there is no one to go to out of the backfield.   It’s the most glaring weakness, lack of insight , stubbornness by the OC’S , i have seen watching football for 40 plus years.  The RB BY COMMITTEE, means you lack ONE TALENTED BACK , and the sub packages are tells for opposing teams.  If you take ALLENS RUNNING OUT , the actual production of the running game and from these backs is not good, not acceptable , and teams know if you can get ALLEN off his game, there is no replaceable threat or player to make teams game plan against, and it shows up in bad weather, against better teams in the playoffs , and in goal line / short yardage situations. 

 

      Having a STAR , TALENTED 3 DOWN BACK, like Kelly said , is a huge strategic hole regardless of era.  You need a second star , not just these rotatable, replaceable , backs who all have deficits in parts of their game. We can’t even run simple screens, we cant depend on any one back to get those short yardage situations on 3rd or 4th downs , and they have so far not create consistent mismatches as receivers coming out of the backfield. A big issue is the o line and inconsistent schemes that the oc kept flipping on last year , as stated by john fina , a good tackle who started in sb 27 as a rookie and played 10 years foe the BILLS.   But Kelly is right , this coaching staff has refused to make an effort to get a real difference maker at the RBI’s position , following most nfl teams devaluing the position rather than leading.  More than another wr , whose production depends so much on Allen , designed routes , and o line play ( so many factors) , get that unusual back who gets yards despite poor blocking at times , can dependably catch and not fumble in critical times , and suddenly your passing O is better as lbs cant drop as much.

        You dictate  them to load the box at times , opening up things for play action.  Plus you preserve JOSH. Tell me the DOWNSIDE IN HAVING A VERY GOOD BACK OR SPENDING A HIGH PICK ON A UNIQUE TALENT LIKE BIJON, please!    We got to 4 SB’s with a great back ;however, we lost as the d was avg, the qb play was not good, and uncharacteristically , other than SB25 , Thurman had bad games as he mentally collapsed after fumbling, but the reason we got there , was having a great back and very good QB and o line play. WE have the star QB, but too much of the game plan relies on him and we need a RB to hand off too , use in screens in bad weather and negating rushes etc , if this team expecte to actually win a SB. Ask manning, elway , and Marino about success or lack of it, winning a SB regarding the importance of playing with a great back.  

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

When is the last time a team won a Super Bowl with a star RB? Or even made it to the Super Bowl with one? Gurley is the guy that most recently comes to mind and that was back in 2018. I wouldn't say you need a start RB, but you do need a running game and even more importantly, you need to throw the ball to the Rb's. The dude with 7 rings lived off of dumping the ball off to the RB's. Mahomes dumps the ball off to the backs at a far higher rate than the Bills and Allen do. Our RB's need to be combing for at least 110+ receptions. Including Gilliam they only had 79 receptions in 16 games. 

Agreed and we have a RB with a lot of speed in Cook.  I hope Ken can figure his offense out.  I know we went 13-3 with a rookie OC..but expectations are higher in Buffalo and our offense has to evolve desperately.

[Ramza86]

I dont think a star RB is needed and I dont really think Allen needs to "do less".

 

Singletary + Allen with a top 15 Oline.

 

Allen will naturally do less as protection and good run blocking  will keep him from having to panic and force Allen to play like a hero.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

7 hours ago, DrPJax said:

         There is no BUT  here.  ALLEN has Diggs who is a better receiver , route runner than Reed. What he cant do better is break tackles and reed routes were more crossing , reed being more physical and had more RAC as he could take contact. He never just went down or OOB, like Diggs is prone too, but Diggs is technically a better technical route runner who is prob better catching , but his rac is noe like reeds.  Still , Allen has a comparable #1. Lofton was at the end of his career , was good on straight go routes, and had better hands than Davis. Davis can’t separate like lofton , yet really lofton had maybe 1 or two good years , so if Davis could catch , the two wr could be just as productive as a very aging lofton was. Beebe was the real burner and was used as the 3 , not just slot only. He had some great games but was not a hugely consistent producer.   They did have 2 TE’S with METZALLARS, MCKELLER , both being better blockers than huge producers in the passing game. Dawkins is not the blocker , but has more speed and better hands and is an under utilized weapon by the current OC.   Last year ALLEN had no consistent 3 rd guy to keep this PREDOMINANTLY PASSING OFFENSE being able to be great at short yardage or in goa line situations.  

 

       To prove how great ALLEN IS , this team has a porous o line ( the Kelly BILLS had great o lines , remember Kelly was slow compared to Allen , not nearly having the speed or escapability that ALLEN has. ). That is more the real difference rather than receivers being so much better in the Kelly era. Kelly had time , last YEAR ALLEN was under siege almost every play.    But also the huge difference , that o line blew open holes for Thurman who lead the league in yards from scrimmage for 3 consecutive seasons!  

       Thurman had speed , power , could pass protect , was dependable in short yardage and around the goal line.  His other big advantage was he had great hands, was great running screens  and was also a reliable receiver with wheel routes and he was money on third downs.  DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A BACK OR PRODUCTION FROM THE BACKFIELD AT ANY TIME DURING BEANE / McD regime ?  Of course not. They get the majority of production from ALLEN PASSING AND RUNNING , and it is easier to stop one player , or if that one player has a sub par performance , there is no one to go to out of the backfield.   It’s the most glaring weakness, lack of insight , stubbornness by the OC’S , i have seen watching football for 40 plus years.  The RB BY COMMITTEE, means you lack ONE TALENTED BACK , and the sub packages are tells for opposing teams.  If you take ALLENS RUNNING OUT , the actual production of the running game and from these backs is not good, not acceptable , and teams know if you can get ALLEN off his game, there is no replaceable threat or player to make teams game plan against, and it shows up in bad weather, against better teams in the playoffs , and in goal line / short yardage situations. 

 

      Having a STAR , TALENTED 3 DOWN BACK, like Kelly said , is a huge strategic hole regardless of era.  You need a second star , not just these rotatable, replaceable , backs who all have deficits in parts of their game. We can’t even run simple screens, we cant depend on any one back to get those short yardage situations on 3rd or 4th downs , and they have so far not create consistent mismatches as receivers coming out of the backfield. A big issue is the o line and inconsistent schemes that the oc kept flipping on last year , as stated by john fina , a good tackle who started in sb 27 as a rookie and played 10 years foe the BILLS.   But Kelly is right , this coaching staff has refused to make an effort to get a real difference maker at the RBI’s position , following most nfl teams devaluing the position rather than leading.  More than another wr , whose production depends so much on Allen , designed routes , and o line play ( so many factors) , get that unusual back who gets yards despite poor blocking at times , can dependably catch and not fumble in critical times , and suddenly your passing O is better as lbs cant drop as much.

        You dictate  them to load the box at times , opening up things for play action.  Plus you preserve JOSH. Tell me the DOWNSIDE IN HAVING A VERY GOOD BACK OR SPENDING A HIGH PICK ON A UNIQUE TALENT LIKE BIJON, please!    We got to 4 SB’s with a great back ;however, we lost as the d was avg, the qb play was not good, and uncharacteristically , other than SB25 , Thurman had bad games as he mentally collapsed after fumbling, but the reason we got there , was having a great back and very good QB and o line play. WE have the star QB, but too much of the game plan relies on him and we need a RB to hand off too , use in screens in bad weather and negating rushes etc , if this team expecte to actually win a SB. Ask manning, elway , and Marino about success or lack of it, winning a SB regarding the importance of playing with a great back.  

I can’t quibble with anything you wrote, really! Hope OBD is reading this. 👍🏻

[Nextmanup]

Forget the "star RB" crap...it's just not needed in today's game.

 

We need a solid OL, which Allen has never had in Buffalo, and more than one elite target to throw the ball to.

It's not the complicated.  Give him more time to throw, and more quality OPEN receivers to throw to.

 

Imagine that.

 

 

[AuntieEm]

21 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

This. JK's OL was head and shoulders over what we have now.  No denying that Thurman was a stud, but left to right, JK's OL was clearly superior. 

 

   Not to mention Thurman was very good at pass blocking too.

[1onemangang7]

22 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

Well, not a ringing endorsement of things at OBD. Sort of an ouch, actually.

there's plenty of Cook lovers who give their endorsement.  

[1onemangang7]

35 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

   Not to mention Thurman was very good at pass blocking too.

Thurman Thomas could run for 1000 behind the current OL.  

[Nihilarian]

The Buffalo Bills back in the late 80's early '90s were mostly a RUN FIRST team.    

 

Despite the term "K-gun offense" which was named after Keith McKeller...who in 7 seasons as a Buffalo Bills TE caught only 124 receptions. Buffalo used the Redskins counter trey run scheme and ran Thurman until defenses were intent on stopping him and then Kelly went over the LBers to Reed. 

 

And despite the term "hurry up offense" which they borrowed from Cincy. That hurry-up had defenses gasping for air with their hands on their hips and owned the average teams. Kinda like Buffalo does nowadays with that Josh Allen passing offense.

 

If Buffalo ever wants to get to a Super Bowl or win one they need to build an offensive line like the Chiefs had last season. NOT ONE SACK on Mahomes by the fiercest pass-rushing defense during the 2022 season in the SB. 

 

Build the O line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Nihilarian]

6 minutes ago, 1onemangang7 said:

Thurman Thomas could run for 1000 behind the current OL.  

Last year's O line? No, he couldn't. Not with that craptastic #23-rated offensive line.

 

https://theathletic.com/4177728/2023/02/15/buffalo-bills-offseason-running-backs/

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/02/pro-football-focus-buffalo-bills-offensive-line-rankings-dion-dawkins-mitch-morse/

 

What a lot of Bills fans don't realize is that Thurman was always playing injured with bad ankles and that offensive line he played behind really opened some holes. 

[1onemangang7]

13 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Last year's O line? No, he couldn't. Not with that craptastic #23-rated offensive line.

 

https://theathletic.com/4177728/2023/02/15/buffalo-bills-offseason-running-backs/

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/02/pro-football-focus-buffalo-bills-offensive-line-rankings-dion-dawkins-mitch-morse/

 

What a lot of Bills fans don't realize is that Thurman was always playing injured with bad ankles and that offensive line he played behind really opened some holes. 

Yeah, imagine Cook playing nicked, then trash the OL more.  You OL bashers could run behind Hull Parker and Reuben Brown i suppose. 

25 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Last year's O line? No, he couldn't. Not with that craptastic #23-rated offensive line.

 

https://theathletic.com/4177728/2023/02/15/buffalo-bills-offseason-running-backs/

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/02/pro-football-focus-buffalo-bills-offensive-line-rankings-dion-dawkins-mitch-morse/

 

What a lot of Bills fans don't realize is that Thurman was always playing injured with bad ankles and that offensive line he played behind really opened some holes. 

I cant take anyone seriously that could trash the efforts of Thurman Thomas and chalk it up to OL, he deserves the Hall of Fame on his own merit.  

[Nihilarian]

Looking at Singletary 2022 stats with 819 yards rushing I would think that Thurman would probably have had 1500+ yards rushing. So, I was wrong when I said Thurman couldn't get 1000.  

 

The simple fact is Thomas had an all-pro, pro bowl center in Kent Hull and that left side was really good with pro bowlers in Will Wilford, Jim Ritcher was all I was saying.

 

The man was great!

 

If you missed it in an earlier post I stated that Thurman started over Barry Sanders at OSU and put him back on the bench after he returned from an injury. 

 

Those lines from the 80s, and 90s were much better over last year's ranked #23rd line. Click the links as I'm not along with what I said about the Buffalo line.

 

If you think all I'm doing is "bashing" the Buffalo O line. Go rewatch last year's Bengals playoff game and watch how much time Josh Allen had in the pocket to throw. 

[Just in Atlanta]

But Josh is a defacto rb. A star rb would be nice but you have to prioritize somewhere.

 

It starts at the line. 

[1onemangang7]

Just now, Nihilarian said:

Looking at Singletary 2022 stats with 819 yards rushing I would think that Thurman would probably have had 1500+ yards rushing. So, I was wrong when I said Thurman couldn't get 1000.  

 

The simple fact is Thomas had an all-pro, pro bowl center in Kent Hull and that left side was really good with pro bowlers in Will Wilford, Jim Ritcher was all I was saying.

 

The man was great!

 

If you missed it in an earlier post I stated that Thurman started over Barry Sanders at OSU and put him back on the bench after he returned from an injury. 

 

Those lines from the 80s, and 90s were much better over last year's ranked #23rd line. Click the links as I'm not along with what I said about the Buffalo line.

 

If you think all I'm doing is "bashing" the Buffalo O line. Go rewatch last year's Bengals playoff game and watch how much time Josh Allen had in the pocket to throw. 

Singletary ran hard for his size.  Crredit.  He's not a 3 down back.  Cook is not a 3 down back.  That trash OL got the Bills 13 wins out of 16.  You put someone back there so they respect the running game .... The OL gets blamed for too much on this board, sure there could be improvements.  They started tinkiering with Cook and Singletary in the backfield together on a few plays trying to find a solution to their bust of a 2nd round pick.  Everyone sees they need a RB nationwide.  Keep running Josh til the wheels fall off, or get one.  

[NoSaint]

22 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Not really, it's just the trend that everyone is following. 

 

Kyle Shanahan features his RBs and is successful doing it. He just needs someone a little better than Garopollo at the helm. 

 

I prefer his offensive scheme over anything I've seen here in the past 5 years.

counter: the on field rules have changed, the physicality has changed where different types of athletes slot up professionally has changed and there’s now a salary cap.
 

Jim played in a different era and it’s not just a fad or swing of the pendulum 

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

I dont think a star RB is needed and I dont really think Allen needs to "do less".

 

Singletary + Allen with a top 15 Oline.

 

Allen will naturally do less as protection and good run blocking  will keep him from having to panic and force Allen to play like a hero.

Kelly's OL was elite. Josh's is incredibly mediocre.  He runs for his life because his pocket breaks down in 1.8 seconds. And Dorsey hasn't established yet a consistent RB dump off game. That's why there exists this ridiculous national narrative that Josh is reckless.  I will always blame McB for not building a dominant OL 3-5 years ago. Pure stupidity. 

[BADOLBILZ]

22 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Not really, it's just the trend that everyone is following. 

 

Kyle Shanahan features his RBs and is successful doing it. He just needs someone a little better than Garopollo at the helm. 

 

I prefer his offensive scheme over anything I've seen here in the past 5 years.

 

Well, if operated correctly, the west coast offense is a good, versatile offensive system and Shanahan happens to be the best play caller in the NFL.

 

The 49ers team that Kyle took to the SB had Matt Brieda and Raheem Mostert as the lead RB's though.

 

In fact, the Shanahan clan is as responsible as anyone for the death of the "star" RB.    Mike could get any bum off the street over 1,000 yards in his Denver days.       

 

As for needing a better QB..........not really.........Brock Purdy is an excellent and perhaps elite fit for their system.    It was always the main selling point of that offense that you could get by with a much less physically gifted QB so long as they were a quick processor and accurate with good ball placement on short throws.  

 

All that said.........the 49ers haven't been as good as the Bills offensively since Josh Allen broke out in 2020.   You may like the way it looks because the WCO is more familiar to all the old timers but San Francisco is good offensively but their success is driven by their defense.    When they aren't stout defensively, even with all their stars on offense,  they aren't really equipped to get in shootouts with elite QB's.........as evidenced by the curb stomping KC gave them in SF last season.

[bmur66]

I wish we had a young Fred Jackson

[LeGOATski]

12 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I like Ekeler because I really think the key is to use the RB as a weapon in the passing game. Even if Ekler only lasts a season I think the long-term positive impact of having Allen throw to a RB 70+ times is priceless. Get it entrenched in him. We want Allen to use his legs less, right? A lot of that is going to mean getting the ball out to the RB's. Supposedly McD and Beane are preaching Allen using his legs less. So, what is their solution? Just hand the ball off up the middle more but don't throw to the backs more? That's a terrible solution. 

I don't think so. I think passing to the RBs is exactly why they got guys like Cook and Hines. Now it's up to Allen and Dorsey to actually do it.