What was McDermott’s defense like in Carolina?

[BarleyNY]

10 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

This is still my favorite article on the topic. It was written when McDermott was hired in 2017. 4-3 under, over, double A gap mug, and nickel are covered. 
 

It’s a great read:

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/1/12/14236950/sean-mcdermott-buffalo-bills-head-coach-4-3-defense-all-22

 

Watching this and reading the Article I posted above, I’m sorry but the defense we have been watching the last 5 years was not McDermotts. I am excited for him to implement his vision and I am annoyed that he didn’t do it sooner. 

Thanks for the link. I disagree that the defense will be a lot different than what we’ve seen though. Those Carolina defenses were what he ran 7+ years ago. Offenses have changed since then and defenses have changed accordingly. I think what we’ve seen is a natural evolution of what’s in that article. One example of that is McDermott talking about how important getting to the QB with 4 is. That doesn’t mean he won’t ever blitz, but he’s not looking to use that as much as before. Time will tell. I’m hoping for improvement much more than I’m expecting it. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by BarleyNY

[John from Riverside]

Frasier was running McDermonts defense
 

But McDee is a lot better at it

[Julio Hopkins]

His defense was Luke Kuechly.  

[BillsPride12]

I remember the Carolina Defense that made it to the Super Bowl was a very physical, aggressive Defense.  But I think that might be more of a personnel difference than schemes and systems.  I don't know why but it feels like Beane and McDermott have built more of a finesse Defense at this point in Buffalo.  When we hired McDermott I was excited we were going to see a mean and nasty Defense like the Panthers had.  

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Thanks for the link. I disagree that the defense will be a lot different than what we’ve seen though. Those Carolina defenses were what he ran 7+ years ago. Offenses have changed since then and defenses have changed accordingly. I think what we’ve seen is a natural evolution of what’s in that article. One example of that is McDermott talking about how important getting to the QB with 4 is. That doesn’t mean he won’t ever blitz, but he’s not looking to use that as much as before. Time will tell. I’m hoping for improvement much more than I’m expecting it. 

 

I think schematically it won't change a lot. You are right, IMO, that the move towards more cover 2 and cover 4 is just the way the NFL has gone. The Bills played more cover 1 and cover 3 the first 3 years of McDermott and Frazier, have played more cover 2 since.... but that is consistent with league wide tendencies. As for all the simulated pressure stuff that Cover 1 talks about... I mean we have done a ton of that since McDermott has been here. I don't think I have seen any other team do as much simulated double A gap blitz as the Bills have done walking Edmunds and Milano up. Indeed, I wonder if they might even have overused it to the extent that teams see it and go "meh, they drop out of this look far more than they come from it, let's just run our play if this is the one time they come our QB can eat the sack and live for another down." 

 

Where I do think people are right there might be a change is I think McDermott is probably (if his history holds) a more aggressive play caller than Frazier. He will likely send 5 more than Leslie did (although the issue with that is the Bills have been a really bad blitzing team.... you think of a big play against in the last 3 or 4 years chances are the Bills sent 5) but he isn't going to be blitz heavy. That wasn't his defense in Carolina when he was successful. They did more of it his last year there, but that was in part because he had 3 rookies starting in his secondary I think and he was trying to force it out quick. I think back to the 2020 season too when our D started the year cold and then McDermott spent some time with Leslie on it during the bye and the change we saw from then (the Seattle game sticks out) was the linebackers coming downhill much more. That I think will be a bit more of a feature with Sean calling plays than it was. 

 

But I didn't want wholesale changes to the defense and I don't think we will get wholesale changes. It will be tweaks schematically and the playcalling will be different because every playcaller is different and has their own tendencies. That might also help especially early in the year - there is a chance teams had got a beat on Leslie's playcalling tendencies with this group and will take some time to see how McDermott responds in big situations - 3rd down, goalline etc... but personally I think the much bigger factor last year for some of the more vanilla looks was the injuries on the backend. It's hard to do all the disguise stuff the Bills have done previously when you start 7 different safety tandems over the course of 18 games (and at least four different corner combos too). 

[BillsFan2313]

11 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Yup and that timeout hurt us bad we were actually lined up very good for that play Addison was ready to jam KELCE as he stood directly in front of him. If they timeout doesn’t happen we go to the Super Bowl

 

No gaurentee we beat Cincy in the AFCG, not sure why this is assumed by many. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

i really believe he was let go and for time with this team they said he stepped away.

 

either way im glad Frazier is gone and McDermott better get back to his roots or he'll be joining Frazier next year.

 

 

 

Yes but very strange that it didn't happen then right after the season ended as normally would be the case on coaches fired.  So have to believe there was more to it, like Frazier was given an ultimatum, "this is the way we're going to do things this coming year"  He thought about, decided he couldn't support it.  At that point, late February, did they then "allow him to leave" rather than be fired, possibly.  But based on timing, I don't believe it was a simple firing.  There had to be more to it based on timing.

[26TrapDraw]

14 hours ago, wppete said:

He was very Fortunate to Have Luke Keuchly…. What’s interesting is that Jack Campbell of Iowa is training with Keuchly this off-season. 

It’s all lining up for us to take this kid isn’t it.

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, BeefCurtns said:

It’s all lining up for us to take this kid isn’t it.

Trenton Simpson is a better fit for the D they've been running. I don't like LB in the first personally.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, BillsPride12 said:

I remember the Carolina Defense that made it to the Super Bowl was a very physical, aggressive Defense.  But I think that might be more of a personnel difference than schemes and systems.  I don't know why but it feels like Beane and McDermott have built more of a finesse Defense at this point in Buffalo.  When we hired McDermott I was excited we were going to see a mean and nasty Defense like the Panthers had.  

I couldn’t agree more. The Bills defense has been built around speed at every level. Play soft and then pursue the ball. Unfortunately that strategy fails big time if tackling takes a nose dive…which for some reason (maybe injuries) it did last season. Way too many whiffs in the open field by Milano, Poyer, Edmunds and a host of cornerbacks. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Go back and watch the SuperBowl and tell me playing defense matters anymore. 

As others have said, you just need to get a few stops a game, maybe hold for FG instead of TD a few times, and then hope for a negative play or an offensive holding penalty. There is no good way to consistently stop good to great NFL QBs. 

We have had highly ranked defensive units for years now, and the defense is shredded in every playoff loss. Defense won the Ravens playoff game and certainly played well against noodle arm Mac Jones, but that is it.  Last season was even worse due to the rash of injuries. 

Our only hope is to build an offense that sets records. 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Go back and watch the SuperBowl and tell me playing defense matters anymore. 

As others have said, you just need to get a few stops a game, maybe hold for FG instead of TD a few times, and then hope for a negative play or an offensive holding penalty. There is no good way to consistently stop good to great NFL QBs. 

We have had highly ranked defensive units for years now, and the defense is shredded in every playoff loss. Defense won the Ravens playoff game and certainly played well against noodle arm Mac Jones, but that is it.  Last season was even worse due to the rash of injuries. 

Our only hope is to build an offense that sets records. 

 

While I can agree with you to a point, I have to wonder then where the Bills vaunted injury-free offense disappeared to against the Bengals. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Go back and watch the SuperBowl and tell me playing defense matters anymore. 

As others have said, you just need to get a few stops a game, maybe hold for FG instead of TD a few times, and then hope for a negative play or an offensive holding penalty. There is no good way to consistently stop good to great NFL QBs. 

We have had highly ranked defensive units for years now, and the defense is shredded in every playoff loss. Defense won the Ravens playoff game and certainly played well against noodle arm Mac Jones, but that is it.  Last season was even worse due to the rash of injuries. 

Our only hope is to build an offense that sets records. 

 

 

I agree although the defense played well against Miami in this past wildcard round too. I know it was only Skylar Thompson but they had like 1 drive that went for more than 30 yards all day despite the offense and the special teams putting the defense in a hole repeatedly. They played very poorly v Cincy. 

[Einstein]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He did that once. Once. The Chargers game Josh's first start.

 

I know he only admitted to it once, but I believe it happened several times. There were multiple games where McD toward the end had the defensive play call sheet in his hand and was talking into the headset with the sheet over his mouth.

 

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Overall though, I agree. McDermott and Frazier are both Jim Johnson guys. We are not going to see massive changes. 

 

Agreed.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

While I can agree with you to a point, I have to wonder then where the Bills vaunted injury-free offense disappeared to against the Bengals. 

 

The Bills didn't turn up in that game. It was just a total no-show from top to bottom. Personally, I just throw that game out as a signal of anything. It sucks that it happened in a divisional playoff round but that game indicates nothing except for the Bills stunk it up on the day. 

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

I know he only admitted to it once, but I believe it happened several times. There were multiple games where McD toward the end had the defensive play call sheet in his hand and was talking into the headset with the sheet over his mouth.

 

 

McDermott was involved in defensive strategy throughout. He only took over play calling once. 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

McDermott was involved in defensive strategy throughout. He only took over play calling once. 

 

I really respect your opinion as probably the best poster on this site (in my opinion). However you often say things as if you are in the Bills meeting rooms and know it for sure, but you decline to provide proof.

 

Do you have proof that he only called it once? Because as I said, I know he only admitted to it once. But there is a big difference between someone admitting to something only once and it happening only once. I don’t think he was holding a defensive play sheet and speaking into the headset multiple games because he was playing UNO with the guys ipstairsz

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't think I have seen any other team do as much simulated double A gap blitz as the Bills have done walking Edmunds and Milano up. Indeed, I wonder if they might even have overused it to the extent that teams see it and go "meh, they drop out of this look far more than they come from it, let's just run our play if this is the one time they come our QB can eat the sack and live for another down." 

This is an excellent observation. The Bills were 23rd in the league in blitz percentage last year. 19.4%. It doesn’t help your defense to show blitz so much if you are going to so rarely send them. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

No gaurentee we beat Cincy in the AFCG, not sure why this is assumed by many. 

No guarantee but AFC Championship game at home with Allen playing at a high level and the o-line/ run game working as well as it ever had under Daboll, they would likely have boat raced them. 

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Go back and watch the SuperBowl and tell me playing defense matters anymore. 

As others have said, you just need to get a few stops a game, maybe hold for FG instead of TD a few times, and then hope for a negative play or an offensive holding penalty. There is no good way to consistently stop good to great NFL QBs. 

We have had highly ranked defensive units for years now, and the defense is shredded in every playoff loss. Defense won the Ravens playoff game and certainly played well against noodle arm Mac Jones, but that is it.  Last season was even worse due to the rash of injuries. 

Our only hope is to build an offense that sets records. 

 

And so the wise strategy would be to invest the bulk of premium picks in supporting your franchise qb: oline, wr, weapons for Josh. They will probably do the opposite.

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Go back and watch the SuperBowl and tell me playing defense matters anymore. 

As others have said, you just need to get a few stops a game

 

Agreed.

 

The problem is, when we have needed it most, for four years in a row, we have not been able to get that one late game stop in the playoffs.

 

Side note: I think we lose either way, but playing our CB’s 10 yards off of Cinci’s receivers and then watching KC play them the complete opposite way (tight) the following week, I believe, was big egg on Frazier and McD’s face and part of the reason Frazier is not here anymore.