Matthew Judon on defending JA

[julian]

34 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Yeah and I guess Diggs is a scrub. That best offensive player caller didn’t win until the last few years. Coaches scheme. Players execute.  He found 1 helluva guy to execute his plays.

 

For all those Allen attributes you’re touting I wish he sprinkle in some elite decision making. Stop being such a jitterbug under pressure and maybe the turnovers would come down. Right now Mahomes and Burrow are the ones exhibiting that calm trait under pressure. Hopefully Allen can get there. If he can’t Bills won win a championship no matter how much our collective homer minds wish it to be. 

You can minimize the advantages PM has been gifted all day long, they still exist. Winning will always trump one’s physical gifts but this is the ultimate TEAM sport.

 

 All one needs to do is watch both players playing at their highest level and it’s obvious they’re both ahead of all others including Mr.Popular Burrow.

 

Virtually no fans in KC are trading PM and the same can be said about Bills fans and JA… these are the two best players in the league and debating who’s better is fruitless.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

If you’re the best QB you’d need to make no name guys shine. Just saying…

Yeah they just won a superbowl with a ‘muderers’ row of receivers’. Maybe that’s what great qb’s do. Elevate the guys around them. 

 

Allen has elevated the play of as many average to below average WR's as Mahomes has and with a much weaker O line.  Beasley, Sanders, McKenzie, Foster & Brown come to mind.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

For all those Allen attributes you’re touting I wish he sprinkle in some elite decision making. Stop being such a jitterbug under pressure and maybe the turnovers would come down. Right now Mahomes and Burrow are the ones exhibiting that calm trait under pressure. Hopefully Allen can get there. If he can’t Bills won win a championship no matter how much our collective homer minds wish it to be. 

Mahomes rarely faces the kind of pressure that Allen faces continuously. One game in which he did face immediate pressure was in the Super Bowl against Tampa.  How did that work out for him?

 

Living in Cincinnati and also being a big fan of Joe Burrow I can state with absolute certainty that Burrow does not handle the pressure as well as Allen does - both physically (Burrow missed a lot of games after an injury) and in his play.  Check out the Cleveland & Pittsburgh games just this last season for confirmation.

 

IF the Bills fix their O line so that it only performs averagely Allen will be the best QB in football as evidenced by his wins and stats. If the Bills had invested a top 10 draft pick (Oliver) and an elite FA signing (Miller) in their O line the last few years we would be the Eagles with a better QB in Allen and at least one SB win.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

People weren't sure Diggs was better than Adam Thielen before he came to Buffalo

People who didn’t know weren’t sure. 😂 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, BearNorth said:

Not at 9.7% drops to targets.  KC as a whole was 5.5% drops, Bills were 6.9%. 

 

Three games lost by three points, wonder if one more catch in any of those three and we are home throughout the playoffs. 

 

Even worse, Davis, McKenzie, Motor, Cook and Shakir as a group had 26 drops in 262 targets. 

 

Everyone else [mainly DIggs and Knox] had 12 drops in 289 targets. 

 

Davis, Cook, and Shakir better spend every spare moment working on catching the ball.

MVS was considered a #2 with the dropsies and somehow he thrived with KC. When virtually all their receivers went down during the AFC championship game he stepped up. There’s no way MVS is better than Davis.

 

Completely agree that our guys outside of Diggs need to improve. 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

Brown at least played LT in college. Taylor played RT exclusively through college and the pros.
 

It could be just fine for them, but this is much different. 

 

I guess while I have your first response in here too.. Josh has elevated guys as well. Beasley, Brown, Robert Foster, Zay Jones and Stefon Diggs have all had career years playing with Allen. 

I agree with you about Allen. That’s why I’m not too concerned about Davis needing to be a 1K+ yard #2 for the Bills to win. Allen is not Burrow where the latter needs 2 elite WRs to thrive. Allen is more of a playmaker like Mahomes. They only need 1 true guy and a bunch of complimentary parts. The thing that separate the two now is Allen’s decision making about where to distribute the ball. Defenses will continue to play that 2 high safety shell until he learns how to be patient and check down to move the chains. Let’s hope that learning curve is sooner rather than later. 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

You don't honestly believe that. If you do believe this then you need to point the finger at Dorsey for not scheming a better game and for Allen forcing the long ball to often

I absolutely do. Look at their roster. Their receiver room is full of castoff jag’s. With Reid’s playbook and Mahomes decision making Davis would look good for sure.

 

Yes you’re right. Part of the blame, maybe a large part, is Dorsey. But the qb has to take some of the blame. Allen is great but he still has a lot to learn. Too many people give him passes when he messes up. 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, julian said:

You can minimize the advantages PM has been gifted all day long, they still exist. Winning will always trump one’s physical gifts but this is the ultimate TEAM sport.

 

 All one needs to do is watch both players playing at their highest level and it’s obvious they’re both ahead of all others including Mr.Popular Burrow.

 

Virtually no fans in KC are trading PM and the same can be said about Bills fans and JA… these are the two best players in the league and debating who’s better is fruitless.

Of course I agree that Reid put Mahomes in the position to succeed. What I’m saying, that most on here won’t acknowledge, is that Mahomes has to execute. And he has to the tune of never been in the history of the league. That can’t be chalked up as ‘schemes’. The guy is just special.

 

That doesn’t mean Allen isn’t great. I’d put him second. Ahead of Burrows. Once Allen matures a little bit with adversities he’ll learn from his mistakes and take the next steps. Chiefs aren’t going to win every year so there’s opportunities for the Bills to get 1 or more.

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Mahomes rarely faces the kind of pressure that Allen faces continuously. One game in which he did face immediate pressure was in the Super Bowl against Tampa.  How did that work out for him?

 

Living in Cincinnati and also being a big fan of Joe Burrow I can state with absolute certainty that Burrow does not handle the pressure as well as Allen does - both physically (Burrow missed a lot of games after an injury) and in his play.  Check out the Cleveland & Pittsburgh games just this last season for confirmation.

 

IF the Bills fix their O line so that it only performs averagely Allen will be the best QB in football as evidenced by his wins and stats. If the Bills had invested a top 10 draft pick (Oliver) and an elite FA signing (Miller) in their O line the last few years we would be the Eagles with a better QB in Allen and at least one SB win.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any quick YouTube search and you can find Mahomes running around when the pocket collapsed and still made plays. To say that the superbowl where 4 of his lineman were out is proof that he can’t handle pressure is ridiculous.

 

Allen is great. I think he has more potential than a lot of people here do. He doesn’t need a great roster to carry him like a Jalen Hurst does. Doesn’t need 2 bona fide stud WRs to win like Burrow. Just invest in the oline. Having a #1 target like Diggs. All the other weapons can be average. Have a decent defense that get stops on occasions. Then it’s on him to prove he can win it all. That’s what elite, historic, hof talent would be able to do. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by 90sBills

[ColoradoBills]

Josh is my QB, and I love the guy and want no other for my Bills, but let's not think he's perfect.

 

Lots of drops from RBs and SWR are caused by Josh not taking some off the pass.  If you watch the games, you know it's true.

Also, the Bills OL as a whole is weak in setting up certain type of plays, especially screens.  Josh could work more on his slant passes too.

 

Add the FACT that Josh has an arm like no other means he throws more "unexpected" passes at his targets.  He can't be the easiest QB

to catch balls from with his rocket of an arm.  It's no big deal if a little bit of tradeoff is expected with a QB of his skills.

[CincyBillsFan]

46 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Any quick YouTube search and you can find Mahomes running around when the pocket collapsed and still made plays. To say that the superbowl where 4 of his lineman were out is proof that he can’t handle pressure is ridiculous.

 

Allen is great. I think he has more potential than a lot of people here do. He doesn’t need a great roster to carry him like a Jalen Hurst does. Doesn’t need 2 bona fide stud WRs to win like Burrow. Just invest in the oline. Having a #1 target like Diggs. All the other weapons can be average. Have a decent defense that get stops on occasions. Then it’s on him to prove he can win it all. That’s what elite, historic, hof talent would be able to do. 

Any Youtube search can also show Allen running around when the pocket breaks down making great plays.

 

And why don't you wait until AFTER Allen has even an average O line before claiming that he isn't isn't making "elite decisions".  It's ridiculous to criticize Allen here when his O line has been much inferior to what Mahomes has had in KC.

 

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Josh is my QB, and I love the guy and want no other for my Bills, but let's not think he's perfect.

 

Lots of drops from RBs and SWR are caused by Josh not taking some off the pass.  If you watch the games, you know it's true.

Also, the Bills OL as a whole is weak in setting up certain type of plays, especially screens.  Josh could work more on his slant passes too.

 

Add the FACT that Josh has an arm like no other means he throws more "unexpected" passes at his targets.  He can't be the easiest QB

to catch balls from with his rocket of an arm.  It's no big deal if a little bit of tradeoff is expected with a QB of his skills.

Who is saying Allen is "perfect"?  No QB is.  But considering the inferior quality of his O line and the lack of any great offensive play makers beyond Diggs, Allen's accomplishments and stats have been nothing short of amazing. Give him a good O line and SB trophy's will follow.  KC has done this for Mahomes, the Eagles for Hurtz and the Bengals are desperately trying to do it for Burrow.  Can we honestly say the Bills are trying as hard as these teams to give Allen a good O line?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Who is saying Allen is "perfect"?  No QB is.  But considering the inferior quality of his O line and the lack of any great offensive play makers beyond Diggs, Allen's accomplishments and stats have been nothing short of amazing. Give him a good O line and SB trophy's will follow.  KC has done this for Mahomes, the Eagles for Hurtz and the Bengals are desperately trying to do it for Burrow.  Can we honestly say the Bills are trying as hard as these teams to give Allen a good O line?

 

I don't know how many more times I can say I want the OL to be prioritized over everything else on the offsense.

[Saxum]

18 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

Judon knows the deal. He also knows Josh isn’t changing. McBeane have it right but Josh is exactly what Judon described. He plays better that way. Be interesting to see if he can change. I for one want him to play his game. 

 

Josh changes each year.  It something which is fundamental for him.  The question is does Josh consider this as important as other things he works with his offseason coach.

[90sBills]

24 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Any Youtube search can also show Allen running around when the pocket breaks down making great plays.

 

And why don't you wait until AFTER Allen has even an average O line before claiming that he isn't isn't making "elite decisions".  It's ridiculous to criticize Allen here when his O line has been much inferior to what Mahomes has had in KC.

 

 

 

 

Who is saying Allen is "perfect"?  No QB is.  But considering the inferior quality of his O line and the lack of any great offensive play makers beyond Diggs, Allen's accomplishments and stats have been nothing short of amazing. Give him a good O line and SB trophy's will follow.  KC has done this for Mahomes, the Eagles for Hurtz and the Bengals are desperately trying to do it for Burrow.  Can we honestly say the Bills are trying as hard as these teams to give Allen a good O line?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here we go. In the same post saying Allen isn’t perfect but beyond criticism apparently. Always something else. Can’t possibly be him when things go bad. A quick YouTube search would also yield boneheaded interceptions from Allen. Throwing straight to a Jets defender while rolling right. Getting baited by Peterson in the end zone vs Minnesota. Guess it was his Oline that made up threw those picks. Or the poor play design by Dorsey to throw straight to DBs. 
 

Allen is a great qb. There’s no need to protect him from mistakes he would surely own up to. These are things that he would have to improve if the Bills are to win a championship. I have also said the Oline needs to be better. That doesn’t mean Allen is absolved of his mistakes.

 

 

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

I agree with you about Allen. That’s why I’m not too concerned about Davis needing to be a 1K+ yard #2 for the Bills to win. Allen is not Burrow where the latter needs 2 elite WRs to thrive. Allen is more of a playmaker like Mahomes. They only need 1 true guy and a bunch of complimentary parts. The thing that separate the two now is Allen’s decision making about where to distribute the ball. Defenses will continue to play that 2 high safety shell until he learns how to be patient and check down to move the chains. Let’s hope that learning curve is sooner rather than later. 

I agree with you 100%

[julian]

54 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Of course I agree that Reid put Mahomes in the position to succeed. What I’m saying, that most on here won’t acknowledge, is that Mahomes has to execute. And he has to the tune of never been in the history of the league. That can’t be chalked up as ‘schemes’. The guy is just special.

 

That doesn’t mean Allen isn’t great. I’d put him second. Ahead of Burrows. Once Allen matures a little bit with adversities he’ll learn from his mistakes and take the next steps. Chiefs aren’t going to win every year so there’s opportunities for the Bills to get 1 or more.

That’s fair, I’d also put Allen in the special category because of his physical skill set.. if people are dying on a hill for PM over JA or vice versa it’s more just fandom or personal preference in style of play.

 

 These are the best QBs in football.

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Here we go. In the same post saying Allen isn’t perfect but beyond criticism apparently. Always something else. Can’t possibly be him when things go bad. A quick YouTube search would also yield boneheaded interceptions from Allen. Throwing straight to a Jets defender while rolling right. Getting baited by Peterson in the end zone vs Minnesota. Guess it was his Oline that made up threw those picks. Or the poor play design by Dorsey to throw straight to DBs. 
 

Allen is a great qb. There’s no need to protect him from mistakes he would surely own up to. These are things that he would have to improve if the Bills are to win a championship. I have also said the Oline needs to be better. That doesn’t mean Allen is absolved of his mistakes.

 

 

Every QB including Mahomes throws "boneheaded interceptions".  So what's your point?  No one is saying that Allen is beyond criticism though I'm not sure what criticizing one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL gets you. Heck, do you remember the rookie Elam baiting Mahomes to throw an end zone INT in that game?

 

And yes that INT on the Bills first drive against the Jets was terrible.  But then at the end of the game Allen threw a 70 yard pass that hit Davis in the chest that he dropped that likely would have earned the Bills a win.

 

IMO most of Allen's mistakes are either directly or indirectly the result of bad O line play.  It's not just that the Bills need better O line play it's that their O line is among the bottom 10 in the NFL.  This makes the success of Allen and the Bills offense all the more remarkable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, 90sBills said:

I agree with you about Allen. That’s why I’m not too concerned about Davis needing to be a 1K+ yard #2 for the Bills to win. Allen is not Burrow where the latter needs 2 elite WRs to thrive. Allen is more of a playmaker like Mahomes. They only need 1 true guy and a bunch of complimentary parts. The thing that separate the two now is Allen’s decision making about where to distribute the ball. Defenses will continue to play that 2 high safety shell until he learns how to be patient and check down to move the chains. Let’s hope that learning curve is sooner rather than later. 

I disagree.  The biggest things that separate Allen & Mahomes over the last 3 years are:

 

1) Mahomes is coached by the best offensive mind in the NFL today and one of the best in the history of the league.

2) The Chiefs prioritized the offense over the defense while Buffalo has prioritized the defense over the offense.

3) Mahomes has enjoyed a much better O line then Allen has over the last 3 years.

4) Mahomes has enjoyed a much larger collection of very good & elite play makers then Allen has had over the last 3 years.

 

BTW I've seen plenty of games were Allen patiently dissects a defense with the short passing game while they played two high safeties.

 

[HappyDays]

11 hours ago, 90sBills said:

If you’re the best QB you’d need to make no name guys shine. Just saying…

 

What no name guys shined with Mahomes or Burrow?

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Every QB including Mahomes throws "boneheaded interceptions".  So what's your point?  No one is saying that Allen is beyond criticism though I'm not sure what criticizing one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL gets you. Heck, do you remember the rookie Elam baiting Mahomes to throw an end zone INT in that game?

 

And yes that INT on the Bills first drive against the Jets was terrible.  But then at the end of the game Allen threw a 70 yard pass that hit Davis in the chest that he dropped that likely would have earned the Bills a win.

 

IMO most of Allen's mistakes are either directly or indirectly the result of bad O line play.  It's not just that the Bills need better O line play it's that their O line is among the bottom 10 in the NFL.  This makes the success of Allen and the Bills offense all the more remarkable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again with the excuses. Allen started the season like gang buster but tailed off badly as the season progressed. Playing badly and throwing int’s that cost games preventing the Bills from getting the #1 seed. It has happened in previous years like the 9-6 loss to Jax. Inexplicable and inexcusable. I was hopeful that he’d learned from those experiences to propel deeper in the playoffs this year and possibly win a superbowl. Obviously that didn’t happen so here’s hoping he’ll do better next year.

 

The team hasn’t achieved its ultimate goal so there will be criticisms across the board including the qb. Unless you think he’s a perfect product as it stands and doesn’t need improvements. You stated he’s ‘not perfect’ but continue to deflect all criticisms away to others. Again criticizing his mistakes doesn’t mean he isn’t great.

 

The point with Mahomes is his mistakes usually don’t cause his team to miss out on the best chance of winning a championship. His worse performance was probably the 2nd half of the AFC Championship game in ‘21. So what did he do…worked hard in the offseason to learned from it then came back in ‘22 to win it all. That is what I’m hoping Allen would be able to do. That ability to learn and overcome is also among the things that separates the two of them for now.