Bills Draftees Don't Contribute Much

[ndirish1978]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

That doesn't make sense and is actually opposite. A roster rebuild would actually favor Beane and McDermott playing more of their own draft picks. 

Isn't that the job of the coaching staff to teach them? 

The Chiefs' rookies had no problem getting playing time. 

 

 

This isn't Madden, you can't expect to draft 7-8 guys in a draft and have them all start; you have to bring in vets and supplement with rookies. Once you have a roster that is set you would expect to be bringing along your later round draft picks into starting positions while the Rd 1-3 can battle for their positions as starters. 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, BananaB said:

As a fan I’d rather see Shakir struggle than McKenzie, same can be said about Elam and Dane Jackson. If all players are struggling isn’t it best to go with the younger, superior talent? Late in the season they have the better chance of improving to help us down the stretch. 
 

It’s funny how so many people keep saying we can fill these holes with our draft picks, but if it take 3 or 4 years for them to contribute you ain’t filling anything. Look at our dline, how many picks has McD wasted there only to keep bringing in vets every year because it ain’t strong enough. 

 

If I could put a stake in one myth on this board, it's the "McDermott will never play rookies".  McDermott will play rookies every game all game - if he sees that rookie as the best choice for the job.  But "Nothing is Given, Everything is Earned".  The rookie who doesn't go hard in practice, who doesn't master the playbook, who can't apply the playbook on the field, who isn't taking "corrections" into the next week's practice and the next game, is going to find his ass sitting down. 

 

And he's not gonna play ahead of a guy McD and staff see as the better player, just because he's our "hope for the future" or some such.  "Talent is as Talent Does"; you seem to be arguing that a more talented guy (guy with higher physical potential?) should play ahead of a guy who has the playbook down and is in the right place at the right time doing the right thing in practice and on the field, but makes a mistake.  McDermott disagrees, and I do too.  Put the best guys as of today on the field.

 

Let me introduce a concept mind-boggling in its simplicity: McDermott will play whoever he sees as the best player for the job.

When McDermott took over in 2017, he played rookies all the time

- Tre White played close to 100%, Dion Dawkins played 100% of the snaps in his 3rd game, Milano played about half the snaps in his 4th game and took over by the end of the season.

-Josh Allen played starting halfway through his 1st game, Tre Edmunds played 100% starting game 1 bar injuries, Taron Johnson (4th round) played starting week 3 57% overall, Levi Wallace (undrafted) took over Game 10 and played 97% from then on out

-Cody Ford started 15 games as a rookie 69% overall, Devin Singletary played 67% of the snaps as a rookie, Dawson Knox 64%

-Gabriel Davis played 73% of the snaps as a rookie, the Bills played an unexpected amount of 4 wr sets because he was too good to sit

-Spencer Brown played 78% of the snaps as a rookie, Greg Rousseau 49%

- Christian Benford played 62% of the snaps, Kaiir Elam played 57%,  Khalil Shakir played 29%, James Cook played 25%

 

It doesn't take most of our successful draft picks 3 or 4 years to contribute.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Beck Water

[BananaB]

37 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

If I could put a stake in one myth on this board, it's the "McDermott will never play rookies".  McDermott will play rookies every game all game - if he sees that rookie as the best choice for the job.  But "Nothing is Given, Everything is Earned".  The rookie who doesn't go hard in practice, who doesn't master the playbook, who can't apply the playbook on the field, who isn't taking "corrections" into the next week's practice and the next game, is going to find his ass sitting down. 

 

And he's not gonna play ahead of a guy McD and staff see as the better player, just because he's our "hope for the future" or some such.  "Talent is as Talent Does"; you seem to be arguing that a more talented guy (guy with higher physical potential?) should play ahead of a guy who has the playbook down and is in the right place at the right time doing the right thing in practice and on the field, but makes a mistake.  McDermott disagrees, and I do too.  Put the best guys as of today on the field.

 

Let me introduce a concept mind-boggling in its simplicity: McDermott will play whoever he sees as the best player for the job.

When McDermott took over in 2017, he played rookies all the time

- Tre White played close to 100%, Dion Dawkins played 100% of the snaps in his 3rd game, Milano played about half the snaps in his 4th game and took over by the end of the season.

-Josh Allen played starting halfway through his 1st game, Tre Edmunds played 100% starting game 1 bar injuries, Taron Johnson (4th round) played starting week 3 57% overall, Levi Wallace (undrafted) took over Game 10 and played 97% from then on out

-Cody Ford started 15 games as a rookie 69% overall, Devin Singletary played 67% of the snaps as a rookie, Dawson Knox 64%

-Gabriel Davis played 73% of the snaps as a rookie, the Bills played an unexpected amount of 4 wr sets because he was too good to sit

-Spencer Brown played 78% of the snaps as a rookie, Greg Rousseau 49%

- Christian Benford played 62% of the snaps, Kaiir Elam played 57%,  Khalil Shakir played 29%, James Cook played 25%

 

It doesn't take most of our successful draft picks 3 or 4 years to contribute.

Early in a rebuild our young players got a lot of playing time, recently not so much. Which sucks because the guys playing ahead of them haven’t been good enough to keep some of them on the bench.

 

And Gabe never got all kinds of playing time because he was so good, it was because John Brown missed half the season. The next year we brought in old man Sanders to replace Brown and Gabe had to sit behind him.    
To be honest, I thought Gabe deserved more time that year but McD loves his vets so Sanders maintained that roll until he got injured. 

[Beck Water]

45 minutes ago, BananaB said:

And Gabe never got all kinds of playing time because he was so good, it was because John Brown missed half the season.

 

That's factually easy to disprove.  Brown missed game 5, 7, and 11-15 in 2020.

Gabe Davis got 49-74% of the snaps in games 1-4 (with Brown playing), 62% in game 6 (with Brown playing) and 47-60% of the snaps in games 8-10 (with Brown playing).  Davis played 54,45, and 22% of the snaps in the 3 playoff games (with Brown playing)

 

He played more, of course, when Brown was out - closer to 100% of the snaps.

 

So yes, Davis got significant playing time as a rookie based upon him learning the offense, being a good blocker, and being able to run routes.

 

45 minutes ago, BananaB said:

The next year we brought in old man Sanders to replace Brown and Gabe had to sit behind him.    

 

Same thing in 2021 - Davis got more playing time when Sanders was injured late in the season, but he was not sitting, he was still seeing 30-50% of the snaps WITH Sanders active and playing.

 

 

[298Woody]

Beane drafted an all pro guard, he gave him to Cleveland because the coaches didn't think he was that good but developed instantly in Cleveland to all pro status. Wyatt Teller's trade has never been explained to my liking and I want to know who is responsible just like the 13 seconds,

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 hours ago, 298Woody said:

Beane drafted an all pro guard, he gave him to Cleveland because the coaches didn't think he was that good but developed instantly in Cleveland to all pro status. Wyatt Teller's trade has never been explained to my liking and I want to know who is responsible just like the 13 seconds,

 

They traded for Bates shortly beforehand, and signed several free agents prior to his 2nd season.  

 

I would assume he didn't win a starting guard spot from Buffalo.  They were rolling Dawkins-Spain-Morse-Feliciano-Ford.  The depth behind that was Bates, Boettger, Long, and Nsekhe.  

 

Ideally they keep him over Long, but Teller never played center.  They used 1 of the picks in the Diggs trade, and the other was Tyler Bass.  

[Chaos]

19 hours ago, 298Woody said:

Beane drafted an all pro guard, he gave him to Cleveland because the coaches didn't think he was that good but developed instantly in Cleveland to all pro status. Wyatt Teller's trade has never been explained to my liking and I want to know who is responsible just like the 13 seconds,

Focus on the real problems holding the team back, like Josh Allen's aggressive play. 

[Beck Water]

19 hours ago, 298Woody said:

Beane drafted an all pro guard, he gave him to Cleveland because the coaches didn't think he was that good but developed instantly in Cleveland to all pro status. Wyatt Teller's trade has never been explained to my liking and I want to know who is responsible just like the 13 seconds,

 

Interestingly, a very similar statement using very similar language was made in another thread about 6 days ago, and corrected there (see below)

"Ironically, the one time Beane DID give up pretty quickly and trade a drafted player away, said player immediately became an All-Pro elsewhere. Unfortunately, that incident only seems to have increased Beane's willingness to stick it out with other, lesser players."

Teller did NOT instantly develop into an All-Pro guard.  In his 2nd season (1st with the Browns) he started 9 games, then 11, then in his 4th year went to Pro-Bowl (was not all pro).  Not taking away that today he is a very good guard, but it wasn't "instant all pro" when he went elsewhere.

 

The explanation has been made multiple times.  @Bleeding Bills Blue's explanation is correct, minus a few details.  The Bills were determined to give Allen a functional NFL center.  They demand positional flexibility from their backup guards.  Morse was in concussion protocol most of training camp.  Teller was slated into a backup role, but was not as good at switching sides as Bates and Boettger, nor did he have experience starting at C like Long or show promise at C like Bates.  So Teller was odd man out.  In hindsight, both Feliciano and Bates can play C and play it better than Long, but the GM has to make decisions based on the info he has at the time.