Bills Sign OG David Edwards

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Please see James Crowder as an example. 

I like the signing. The Bills needs to load up with Olinemen. Protect Allen is priority number one. Beane has screwed the pooch for too long. 

 

 

Really? You're citing Crowder as an example, a comparison for Allen? Ridiculous.

 

Crowder's last four years before coming to the Bills:

 

2018 9 games played

2019 16 games

2020 12 games

2021 12 games

 

David Allen's four years in the league:

 

2019 16 games

2020 16 games

2021 17 games

2022 4 games

 

Yeah, great example there. If it weren't for the fact that their histories and play times are vastly different, you could almost say that they were similar.

 

They clearly aren't. But you could almost say they were if you didn't mind being quite wrong.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Thurman#1

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

Another value signing here, definitely worth a flier. We've got some depth at the position now with Bates and Edwards but I'm still hoping a G and RT will be added on draft day.

[newcam2012]

36 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Really? You're citing Crowder as an example, a comparison for Allen? Ridiculous.

 

Crowder's last four years before coming to the Bills:

 

2018 9 games played

2019 16 games

2020 12 games

2021 12 games

 

David Allen's four years in the league:

 

2019 16 games

2020 16 games

2021 17 games

2022 4 games

 

Yeah, great example there. If it weren't for the fact that their histories and play times are vastly different, you could almost say that they were similar.

 

They clearly aren't. But you could almost say they were if you didn't mind being quite wrong.

 

 

My bad. Tua is a better example. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by newcam2012

[MrEpsYtown]

I would say that I think the Bills like a pretty specific type of lineman. They like tackles who move inside and they like really smart, athletic players. That kind of narrows down the pool they pick from. But it is clear that they have a type. 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, freddyjj said:

I am curious if Bills give Edwards reps at RT in camp to compete with Brown as Edwards played RT exclusively at Wisconsin.  

 

Oh, intriguing thought.  I'm gonna go with "no", in that typically if a guy has the tools to succeed at T in the league, that's where they put him.  And typically, if you sign a guy because he's looked good at one position, you don't want to ask him to learn a new position.

 

However, fun fact - Edwards actually started a game at LT in 2021 when both Whitworth and his backup Noteboom were ruled out with Covid.  The Rams won, 30-23.  Stafford was not sacked. 

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I would say that I think the Bills like a pretty specific type of lineman. They like tackles who move inside and they like really smart, athletic players. That kind of narrows down the pool they pick from. But it is clear that they have a type. 

 

I agree with you that the Bills have a type.  On the other hand, when drafting and signing FA to type produces a sub-par OL with a non-existent run game year after year, at what point does the FO need to evaluate whether their type is the best fit for what they're trying to accomplish?

 

 

[freddyjj]

19 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Oh, intriguing thought.  I'm gonna go with "no", in that typically if a guy has the tools to succeed at T in the league, that's where they put him.  And typically, if you sign a guy because he's looked good at one position, you don't want to ask him to learn a new position.

 

However, fun fact - Edwards actually started a game at LT in 2021 when both Whitworth and his backup Noteboom were ruled out with Covid.  The Rams won, 30-23.  Stafford was not sacked. 

Yes but Rams had Whitworth and Havenstein, 2 soilid LT/RTs in 2020 and 2021 so their greater need was at OG.  

 

Scouting analyses when he came out had him assessed somewhere between a starting RT and backup RT

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2824347-david-edwards-nfl-draft-2019-scouting-report-for-los-angeles-rams-pick

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/david-edwards/32004544-5733-7483-3a0b-c9cc2e7a9e47

https://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2019/4/25/18342882/nfl-draft-2019-david-edwards-scouting-report-wisconsin-football

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by freddyjj

[ColoradoBills]

11 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Ha Ha.  For definitions of "always" equal to "only in 2022, when he was rehabbing the achilles he tore late in the 2021 season.  Seriously, I don't see the Bills re-up'ing him if they didn't think he'd be good to go for TC.

 

 

 

My bad.  I must be mis-remembering.  I thought Ike had 2 Achilles injuries.  

[MrEpsYtown]

 

25 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I have a type, too, but I'm old now so it doesn't matter.

 

Who in this draft best fits their model? I've been thinking Bergeron because of some positional versatility.

 

All my opinions here, but here goes: 

 

Skoronski and Paris Johnson he would probably be salivating for. Both are versatile athletes who are super smart players, both are also out of reach. They are by far my favorite OL in the draft. Johnson will be a dominant LT and while I am against an RT or guard in the first, I think Skornoski will be dominant there. I worry about him at LT. B. Jones has that versatility and is an excellent athlete. Kromer probably likes Darnell Wright, he's versatile, an ok athlete, and a solid player with good feet. 

 

Kick Inside candidates: 

Mauch - He has a lot of interesting athletic traits and is a former tight end. He's a guard. Upside plays on the surface, but he is already 24 years old. 

Bergeron -  I like him, I think Kromer would. He's another smart player, I do think he is probably a guard only, but he has a ton of experience and good OL traits. High floor. 

Steen - I think he is a guard too and I think Kromer would like some of his traits. I think he would excel as a zone blocker. Outside chance he could stay at tackle. 

 

I would think he also likes John Michael Schmitz. While he is a center-only prospect, he is nasty and a very interesting center who is very smart. Kromer can work with that. He turned Brain Allen into a pretty good pro, and he was a nasty center-only prospect. If they are looking to replace Morse, I could see him in the second round. My only issue with him is that he is old. He may have reached his ceiling. 

 

I would also keep an eye on Joe Tippman. Again, a center only, but he's basically Mitch Morse reincarnated. Great size and length for a center and another Wisconsin guy which Kromer seems to like. He came to Wisconsin as a tackle who they moved into center. I think he could play guard or center. He just turned 22 today, so there is an upside there. 

 

I can tell you who I don't think they like; 

Harrison - another soft Oklahoma lineman, Kromer went through this with Bobby Evans and the Bills went through this with Ford. Good athlete, but doesn't have it. 

Torrence - I don't know what to think here. He is a big slow plodding guard only whose sack numbers are skewed by an elusive qb. His bench at the combine is going to hurt him a little because he seems so much more powerful in the game. I think he is a gap scheme guard, but he does show well in zone. He has a ton of experience, and he can play, I just don't think he is what they are looking for. Again, my opinion. 

Dawand Jones - a massive human being, probably a RT only. Players like this have never been Kromer's flavor. 

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Oh, intriguing thought.  I'm gonna go with "no", in that typically if a guy has the tools to succeed at T in the league, that's where they put him.  And typically, if you sign a guy because he's looked good at one position, you don't want to ask him to learn a new position.

 

However, fun fact - Edwards actually started a game at LT in 2021 when both Whitworth and his backup Noteboom were ruled out with Covid.  The Rams won, 30-23.  Stafford was not sacked. 

 

I agree with you that the Bills have a type.  On the other hand, when drafting and signing FA to type produces a sub-par OL with a non-existent run game year after year, at what point does the FO need to evaluate whether their type is the best fit for what they're trying to accomplish?

 

I have said elsewhere but I had a low 2 on him coming out based on him as a RT. I am surprised the Rams never tried him there but worth saying that they had Whit and one of the most consistent right tackles in the league in Havenstein, whereas they were weaker at guard.... Noteboom and Edwards ended up playing guard but how much of that was just them trying to get their best 5 on the field? I am still intrigued by the possibility of him competing outside as well, though I agree they have signed him primarily to play guard. 

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

 

All my opinions here, but here goes: 

 

Skoronski and Paris Johnson he would probably be salivating for. Both are versatile athletes who are super smart players, both are also out of reach. They are by far my favorite OL in the draft. Johnson will be a dominant LT and while I am against an RT or guard in the first, I think Skornoski will be dominant there. I worry about him at LT. B. Jones has that versatility and is an excellent athlete. Kromer probably likes Darnell Wright, he's versatile, an ok athlete, and a solid player with good feet. 

 

Kick Inside candidates: 

Mauch - He has a lot of interesting athletic traits and is a former tight end. He's a guard. Upside plays on the surface, but he is already 24 years old. 

Bergeron -  I like him, I think Kromer would. He's another smart player, I do think he is probably a guard only, but he has a ton of experience and good OL traits. High floor. 

Steen - I think he is a guard too and I think Kromer would like some of his traits. I think he would excel as a zone blocker. Outside chance he could stay at tackle. 

 

I would think he also likes John Michael Schmitz. While he is a center-only prospect, he is nasty and a very interesting center who is very smart. Kromer can work with that. He turned Brain Allen into a pretty good pro, and he was a nasty center-only prospect. If they are looking to replace Morse, I could see him in the second round. My only issue with him is that he is old. He may have reached his ceiling. 

 

I would also keep an eye on Joe Tippman. Again, a center only, but he's basically Mitch Morse reincarnated. Great size and length for a center and another Wisconsin guy which Kromer seems to like. He came to Wisconsin as a tackle who they moved into center. I think he could play guard or center. He just turned 22 today, so there is an upside there. 

 

I can tell you who I don't think they like; 

Harrison - another soft Oklahoma lineman, Kromer went through this with Bobby Evans and the Bills went through this with Ford. Good athlete, but doesn't have it. 

Torrence - I don't know what to think here. He is a big slow plodding guard only whose sack numbers are skewed by an elusive qb. His bench at the combine is going to hurt him a little because he seems so much more powerful in the game. I think he is a gap scheme guard, but he does show well in zone. He has a ton of experience, and he can play, I just don't think he is what they are looking for. Again, my opinion. 

Dawand Jones - a massive human being, probably a RT only. Players like this have never been Kromer's flavor. 

 

Interesting thinking on Harrison. I was thinking he my well be their type.... they LOVE athletic tackles. But the once bitten twice shy out of Oklahoma thing is interesting to reflect on. Otherwise I agree entirely with your synopsis, 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Marlton Bills said:

I hear you…my thought was if the middle holds up better Josh has options…step up in the pocket, take off through a gap, or beat an edge rusher on the outside.  If the middle doesn’t hold up, which it seems like was also a problem, his only option is to try to beat the edge rusher. 

 

Well, that's definitely true.  Who was it, Pat Shurmur, who quipped "I don't know any QB who says 'Hey, let 'em come up the middle, I can handle it'

 

I just don't know that the C and G are especially more important to a QB like Josh.  Obviously the Blind Side is still critical, and a number of Josh's critical sacks and strip sacks have come rolling to the R. 

 

But for sure, the QB can't step up into the pocket if there isn't a pocket.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Beck Water

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

 

All my opinions here, but here goes: 

 

Skoronski and Paris Johnson he would probably be salivating for. Both are versatile athletes who are super smart players, both are also out of reach. They are by far my favorite OL in the draft. Johnson will be a dominant LT and while I am against an RT or guard in the first, I think Skornoski will be dominant there. I worry about him at LT. B. Jones has that versatility and is an excellent athlete. Kromer probably likes Darnell Wright, he's versatile, an ok athlete, and a solid player with good feet. 

 

Kick Inside candidates: 

Mauch - He has a lot of interesting athletic traits and is a former tight end. He's a guard. Upside plays on the surface, but he is already 24 years old. 

Bergeron -  I like him, I think Kromer would. He's another smart player, I do think he is probably a guard only, but he has a ton of experience and good OL traits. High floor. 

Steen - I think he is a guard too and I think Kromer would like some of his traits. I think he would excel as a zone blocker. Outside chance he could stay at tackle. 

 

I would think he also likes John Michael Schmitz. While he is a center-only prospect, he is nasty and a very interesting center who is very smart. Kromer can work with that. He turned Brain Allen into a pretty good pro, and he was a nasty center-only prospect. If they are looking to replace Morse, I could see him in the second round. My only issue with him is that he is old. He may have reached his ceiling. 

 

I would also keep an eye on Joe Tippman. Again, a center only, but he's basically Mitch Morse reincarnated. Great size and length for a center and another Wisconsin guy which Kromer seems to like. He came to Wisconsin as a tackle who they moved into center. I think he could play guard or center. He just turned 22 today, so there is an upside there. 

 

I can tell you who I don't think they like; 

Harrison - another soft Oklahoma lineman, Kromer went through this with Bobby Evans and the Bills went through this with Ford. Good athlete, but doesn't have it. 

Torrence - I don't know what to think here. He is a big slow plodding guard only whose sack numbers are skewed by an elusive qb. His bench at the combine is going to hurt him a little because he seems so much more powerful in the game. I think he is a gap scheme guard, but he does show well in zone. He has a ton of experience, and he can play, I just don't think he is what they are looking for. Again, my opinion. 

Dawand Jones - a massive human being, probably a RT only. Players like this have never been Kromer's flavor. 

Really appreciate it. This is very helpful.

[Beck Water]

33 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

My bad.  I must be mis-remembering.  I thought Ike had 2 Achilles injuries.  

 

No, you're not mis-remembering at all that Ike had 2 Achilles injuries.  The first was in college his Sr year (2017) - the other side from the one he tore last season.  He was signed as an UDFA but not until mid-May and the recovery is probably why.  I don't think it kept him out of training camp his rookie season.

 

Come to think of it, that 9 month recovery timeline might be one reason the Bills expected him back earlier in the season, though they did say he'd had a setback.

 

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I have said elsewhere but I had a low 2 on him coming out based on him as a RT. I am surprised the Rams never tried him there but worth saying that they had Whit and one of the most consistent right tackles in the league in Havenstein, whereas they were weaker at guard.... Noteboom and Edwards ended up playing guard but how much of that was just them trying to get their best 5 on the field? I am still intrigued by the possibility of him competing outside as well, though I agree they have signed him primarily to play guard.

 

In his interview (linked above) he mentioned that unless the OLman is a C, Kromer tries everyone at all 4 other positions.  So evidently he had the opportunity to compete at RT.  You may be correct playing at LG was just an attempt to put the best 5 on the field and Havenstein was better, but

 

I looked up his draft and combine report and a lot of it sorta translates to me as "projects at G in the NFL"
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/david-edwards/32004544-5733-7483-3a0b-c9cc2e7a9e47

Stuff like "slides are quick but might not gain enough ground" "outside hand gets erased opening path to his QB" etc.

 

But it is notable that when they were down Whitworth and their swing T, the Rams did start Edwards at LT for a game, and it wasn't a disaster.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Beck Water

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

No, you're not mis-remembering at all that Ike had 2 Achilles injuries.  The first was in college his Sr year (2017) - the other side from the one he tore last season.  He was signed as an UDFA but not until mid-May and the recovery is probably why.  I don't think it kept him out of training camp his rookie season.

 

Come to think of it, that 9 month recovery timeline might be one reason the Bills expected him back earlier in the season, though they did say he'd had a setback.

 

 

In his interview (linked above) he mentioned that unless the OLman is a C, Kromer tries everyone at all 4 other positions.  So evidently he had the opportunity to compete at RT.  You may be correct playing at LG was just an attempt to put the best 5 on the field and Havenstein was better, but

 

I looked up his draft and combine report and a lot of it sorta translates to me as "projects at G in the NFL"
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/david-edwards/32004544-5733-7483-3a0b-c9cc2e7a9e47

Stuff like "slides are quick but might not gain enough ground" "outside hand gets erased opening path to his QB" etc.

 

But it is notable that when they were down Whitworth and their swing T, the Rams did start Edwards at LT for a game, and it wasn't a disaster.

 

 

Maybe. But I was higher on him coming out. And he has been behind two very good tackles. So I'm not willing to write it off as a possibility. 

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

No, you're not mis-remembering at all that Ike had 2 Achilles injuries.  The first was in college his Sr year (2017) - the other side from the one he tore last season.  He was signed as an UDFA but not until mid-May and the recovery is probably why.  I don't think it kept him out of training camp his rookie season.

 

Come to think of it, that 9 month recovery timeline might be one reason the Bills expected him back earlier in the season, though they did say he'd had a setback.

 

 

Thanks.  FTR, I'm not down on Ike.  He's filled in ok when he was needed.  Improving the Bills OL and IOL specifically just means in my

mind, that a guy like Ike (talent wise) should be on the bubble.   His $50k guarantee surely reflects that thinking.

 

In regard to my original post, I guess another (better way) to say what I meant, is Ike in no way should preclude Beane from adding to the

IOL in the draft or elsewhere.  Although now, I am starting to warm up to the idea for an OT if the pick is high.   

[Beck Water]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Maybe. But I was higher on him coming out. And he has been behind two very good tackles. So I'm not willing to write it off as a possibility. 

 

Well, we all know that players can develop their technique beyond what they show pre-draft, too, and clearly Edwards did so. 

 

I hadn't thought about Edwards as a potential RT add, but given that Kromer worked with him - "at all 4 positions" as the man himself said - Kromer ought to know if Edwards has potential at RT that might let him compete or even put him ahead of Brown. 

 

I like the add even more now.

 

I thought it was interesting that Edwards declined to discuss his concussions last season.

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Thanks.  FTR, I'm not down on Ike.  He's filled in ok when he was needed.  Improving the Bills OL and IOL specifically just means in my

mind, that a guy like Ike (talent wise) should be on the bubble.   His $50k guarantee surely reflects that thinking.

 

So a point worth remembering is that Ike started 10 games at LG for the Bills in 2021.  When the Bills abandoned the Cody Ford Project after 3 games, Boettger was their first choice ahead of Feliciano and Bates.  They then experimented with Feliciano for two games, switched Feliciano to RG and moved Boettger back to LG when Brown was injured, but then they stuck with Boettger at LG until he got hurt.  Dawkins really liked playing with him, coining "you say Boettger, I say Stallion" and both Beane and McDermott referred to his injury as "very significant" in the same sentence as losing Tre White.

 

Now, that's not to say in the grand scheme of things, we shouldn't be looking for better but the Bills did like him better than Bates, who started at RG all last season, and better than Feliciano, who started at C for the Giants all 15 games (though the G-men didn't bring him back)

 

Primarily - I think it's an unanswered question whether he can regain the same form playing on 2 repaired Achilles.  Sometimes athletes compensate for an injury on one side, making the other side more likely to be injured.  Then when both go, they can't get back to the same level.

 

More than just a $50k signing bonus, the Bills have him at the very lowest level of contract, a VSB contract where he's paid vet minimum but counts against the cap as a 2nd year player.  I think that reflects similar uncertainty in minds around the league about whether he can come back from the 2nd Achilles.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Beck Water

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I thought it was interesting that Edwards declined to discuss his concussions last season.

 

We will never know the details evidently.  Maybe he could have returned and chose to shut it down for the whole season.

Halfway through the season it was apparent the Rams weren't going anywhere, and we don't know what plans Edwards

had (if any) with returning to the Rams.

 

Strickly from a Bills fans perspective, it's good he didn't play again last season.  

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

We will never know the details evidently.  Maybe he could have returned and chose to shut it down for the whole season.

Halfway through the season it was apparent the Rams weren't going anywhere, and we don't know what plans Edwards

had (if any) with returning to the Rams.

 

Strickly from a Bills fans perspective, it's good he didn't play again last season.  

 

So the Rams actually opened a 21-day window for him to practice with the team, but then didn't activate him.

 

That's the story I guess we'll never hear

- had he lost too much "game shape" during his time on IR recovering from his 2 concussions? 

- did he start having symptoms again when he started practicing so he couldn't be activated? 

- was it a "business decision" on the Rams side, where the Rams had just lost 6 games in a row and decided to shut down Matthew Stafford, so the risk of bringing him back and having him concussed a third time and potentially carried on the IR rolls outweighed any competitive benefit?

- was it a "business decision" on the part of Edwards and his team, to ensure that he was healthy at the start of FA?

[MrEpsYtown]

56 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

So a point worth remembering is that Ike started 10 games at LG for the Bills in 2021.  When the Bills abandoned the Cody Ford Project after 3 games, Boettger was their first choice ahead of Feliciano and Bates.  They then experimented with Feliciano for two games, switched Feliciano to RG and moved Boettger back to LG when Brown was injured, but then they stuck with Boettger at LG until he got hurt.  Dawkins really liked playing with him, coining "you say Boettger, I say Stallion" and both Beane and McDermott referred to his injury as "very significant" in the same sentence as losing Tre White.

 

Now, that's not to say in the grand scheme of things, we shouldn't be looking for better but the Bills did like him better than Bates, who started at RG all last season, and better than Feliciano, who started at C for the Giants all 15 games (though the G-men didn't bring him back)

 

Primarily - I think it's an unanswered question whether he can regain the same form playing on 2 repaired Achilles.  Sometimes athletes compensate for an injury on one side, making the other side more likely to be injured.  Then when both go, they can't get back to the same level.

 

More than just a $50k signing bonus, the Bills have him at the very lowest level of contract, a VSB contract where he's paid vet minimum but counts against the cap as a 2nd year player.  I think that reflects similar uncertainty in minds around the league about whether he can come back from the 2nd Achilles.

 

 

My thing with Ike is his age. I was always a fan of his, even when he was on the back end of the roster. I've studied Kirk Ferentz stuff for years, he stuck out to me. 

 

But he's going to be 29 in the fall. Maybe it's a late-bloomer situation, but I am not sure how much playing time I would invest in him. I do think he is a really good depth for us to have. I am more excited about the upsides of Bates, McGovern, and Edwards TBH. 

 

I think they were separate Achilles tears? What I have learned from rupturing my own this September is that the surgically repaired Achilles is essentially 10x stronger than it's ever been. Just takes a while to get that flexibility back. The point being, with two surgically repaired Achilles, he should be ok going forward. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

My thing with Ike is his age. I was always a fan of his, even when he was on the back end of the roster. I've studied Kirk Ferentz stuff for years, he stuck out to me. 

 

But he's going to be 29 in the fall. Maybe it's a late-bloomer situation, but I am not sure how much playing time I would invest in him. I do think he is a really good depth for us to have. I am more excited about the upsides of Bates, McGovern, and Edwards TBH. 

 

I think they were separate Achilles tears? What I have learned from rupturing my own this September is that the surgically repaired Achilles is essentially 10x stronger than it's ever been. Just takes a while to get that flexibility back. The point being, with two surgically repaired Achilles, he should be ok going forward. 

 

They definitely were separate Achilles tears, different sides.  That's why I was wondering if he tore the 2nd one because he had unconsciously compensated for the first - maybe not because of the strength of the Achilles but other reasons (flexibility, strength)

 

He's only got 1 more year in the league than Edwards and Bates (26 1/2 next fall) and 2 more than Connor McGovern (26 next fall).  Does calendar age really make that much difference for an OLman?

 

As OL starters, I go with the axiom you can't improve by keeping things the same.  The R side of our line was not good enoughlast year, and either Brown backslid, OR, he looked better playing next to Darryl Williams at G in 2021 than Bates in 2022 which would say something for quality.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Beck Water