Bills sign Damien Harris

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The Bills will likely never be a power football team. It will always relay too much on Allen's arm and legs.

 

Statistically the Bills were very good in picking up 3rd downs. It's called the QB down for a reason. 

 

I like the Harris pick up. However, let's not act like he's the next Derrick Henry. He's getting paid a measly 1.7 million for a reason. 

 

Agree, he adds a dimension to the running game. That's a good thing. Can Dorsey actually use him effectively? 

We are going to eventually have to work our way away from this. Josh Allen is a good pocket passer, and we need to trend him more that way.
 

Or else we’re going to end up with that QB from the Panthers

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We are going to eventually have to work our way away from this. Josh Allen is a good pocket passer, and we need to trend him more that way.
 

Or else we’re going to end up with that QB from the Panthers

I constantly hear this theme. I think it's flawed thinking and mostly living in fear. A few points to illustrate my point

 

(1) The game has dramatically changed since the Cam days. The QB is protected more than ever. 

 

(2) Allen has a six year history of being durable. His body had been able to endure most of the defensive damage inflicted on him. Sure, he's getting older but he's still young and strong. Of course, he can always improve on not taking unnecessary hits. 

 

(3) Why would anyone want to take away or limit Allen's legs? This is an assest that makes him special. Keeps the defenses on edge. An Allen pocket passer with very limited use of his legs isn't optimal in my eyes. 

 

(4) Statiscally, NFL QBs are much much more likely to get hurt when passing the ball. Allen hurt his elbow passing not throwing. Should we limit his passing and advocate him handing the ball off more? Of course not! 

 

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

I constantly hear this theme. I think it's flawed thinking and mostly living in fear. A few points to illustrate my point

 

(1) The game has dramatically changed since the Cam days. The QB is protected more than ever. 

 

(2) Allen has a six year history of being durable. His body had been able to endure most of the defensive damage inflicted on him. Sure, he's getting older but he's still young and strong. Of course, he can always improve on not taking unnecessary hits. 

 

(3) Why would anyone want to take away or limit Allen's legs? This is an assest that makes him special. Keeps the defenses on edge. An Allen pocket passer with very limited use of his legs isn't optimal in my eyes. 

 

(4) Statiscally, NFL QBs are much much more likely to get hurt when passing the ball. Allen hurt his elbow passing not throwing. Should we limit his passing and advocate him handing the ball off more? Of course not! 

 

 

 

 

It is true that the quarterbacks are highly protected
 

The problem is Josh Allen doesn’t play like a quarterback

 

When you see him out there, hurdling guys, and taking on defenders to score touchdowns that is not gonna get protected by NFL rules

[newcam2012]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

It is true that the quarterbacks are highly protected
 

The problem is Josh Allen doesn’t play like a quarterback

 

When you see him out there, hurdling guys, and taking on defenders to score touchdowns that is not gonna get protected by NFL rules

You are making my point. That's what makes Allen special! I don't want to limit his skill set due to fear. 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

He is excellent on the zone game stuff, but I do hope they integrate a little more of the gap scheme stuff. We do a little bit with Josh running and it is really good. That stuff hurts teams like us with smaller, faster defenses. And Harris looks like he is shot out of a cannon on those power plays.  

My question with the Harris signing is does this mean the end of the RPO? I've looked at some video of Harris on YouTube and haven't seen him run from that set. It's usually with a FB or solo. Personally, I'd like to see the RPO go away. I'd rather see Harris and Cook in a power running scheme. 

[Awwufelloff]

1.7 for Damien is insane! Best signing this offseason so far. 

[Warcodered]

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

34 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We are going to eventually have to work our way away from this. Josh Allen is a good pocket passer, and we need to trend him more that way.
 

Or else we’re going to end up with that QB from the Panthers

 

Josh Allen needs to start throwing to the RB's more. That will really be the element that has him using his legs less. In that regard, I question how many snaps Harris will get in our offense. He's never been a high-volume target back. Is that because he just wasn't given the opportunity or because he doesn't have the skill set? The Patriots always deferred to other backs like Bolden and Stevenson, in the passing game. 

 

Singeltary of course was a back that did both for the Bills. Leading the team in rushing attempts and targets from the position. The signing of Harris possibly means a shift into another direction where the Bills will no longer have that bell cow back that leads the team in both rushes and targets. But more likely, it means Cook is the lead back in 2023, being that back who can lead in both rushing attempts and targets while being able to be on the field for all three downs. Harris will be the primary back at the goal line, short yardage sets and two back looks. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

6 hours ago, freddyjj said:

One thing to consider is Motor ran vs light boxes and DH vs 8 man looks predominantly

People keep saying this, but Singletary also ran behind a crappy Oline. Doesn't matter if it's 7, 8 or 10 when you can't get past the front 4.

[MAJBobby]

Singletary at 3.75 adds another UFA loss back to getting that 3rd back for Trumaine.

 

Waiting to see if Sherfield cancels but

 

Harris and K. Allen do not count not a high enough AAV

 

Waiting to see if Johnsons Contract with Vegas counts as well, if it does we are in line for a 3rd (Edmunds) and 7th (Keenum)

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

People keep saying this, but Singletary also ran behind a crappy Oline. Doesn't matter if it's 7, 8 or 10 when you can't get past the front 4.

It all depends on what you’re looking for if you’re running against stacked boxes and picking up first downs that’s kind of what they’re looking for from Damien Harris

[MrEpsYtown]

29 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

My question with the Harris signing is does this mean the end of the RPO? I've looked at some video of Harris on YouTube and haven't seen him run from that set. It's usually with a FB or solo. Personally, I'd like to see the RPO go away. I'd rather see Harris and Cook in a power running scheme. 

 

Good question. You can still run RPO scenarios in Gap and power sets, they just have to be out of the shotgun formation. There are backside and play-side tight-end RPO concepts that can be deadly.

 

To your point though, just give Harris the ball and let him run, that opens up so much of the play-action passing game and I hope that is where we are headed. 

 

They dabbled in gap scheme stuff the last couple of years with the QB counter bash, down blocks on the play side, and a kick and a seal. I think they need to add more of this.  

 

 

Good breakdown:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2022/bills-diverse-run-game-problem-playoffs

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[Doc]

56 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Singletary at 3.75 adds another UFA loss back to getting that 3rd back for Trumaine.

 

Waiting to see if Sherfield cancels but

 

Harris and K. Allen do not count not a high enough AAV

 

Waiting to see if Johnsons Contract with Vegas counts as well, if it does we are in line for a 3rd (Edmunds) and 7th (Keenum)

 

Sherfield also got $1.7M so he doesn't count/cancel.  

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Sherfield also got $1.7M so he doesn't count/cancel.  

Nice then we have our 3rd for Edmunds back.  

 

Waiting on Johnsons Vegas contract to see if we get Keenums 7th back (or higher based on Johnson)

[GolfandBills]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Singletary at 3.75 adds another UFA loss back to getting that 3rd back for Trumaine.

 

Waiting to see if Sherfield cancels but

 

Harris and K. Allen do not count not a high enough AAV

 

Waiting to see if Johnsons Contract with Vegas counts as well, if it does we are in line for a 3rd (Edmunds) and 7th (Keenum)

Max value of 3.75.  Gotta wait till his base salary comes out 

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

 

(3) Why would anyone want to take away or limit Allen's legs? This is an assest that makes him special. Keeps the defenses on edge. An Allen pocket passer with very limited use of his legs isn't optimal in my eyes. 

 

The reason you take away a lot of Allens short yardage carries is because you now have someone who is better at it (Harris>Allen>Singletary).

 

The short yardage carries are unnecessary wear and tear on a franchise QB.  And now with the lessened amount of times that Allen actually takes it himself, the greater the odds those will be successful because the defense will be keying on Harris.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, GolfandBills said:

Max value of 3.75.  Gotta wait till his base salary comes out 

It is on SPOTRAC of that already 

[GolfandBills]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

It is on SPOTRAC of that already 

 

no specifics out yet.  No breakdown of numbers on spotrac or over the cap.  Just need the base to be 2 million at least then we are good 

Edited March 22, 2023 by GolfandBills

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

The Bills will likely never be a power football team. It will always relay too much on Allen's arm and legs.

 

Statistically the Bills were very good in picking up 3rd downs. It's called the QB down for a reason. 

 

I like the Harris pick up. However, let's not act like he's the next Derrick Henry. He's getting paid a measly 1.7 million for a reason. 

 

Agree, he adds a dimension to the running game. That's a good thing. Can Dorsey actually use him effectively? 

You just sit there and try and find fault with every move. 
 

it’s a very good signing.  Period.  Nothing else to say.  We needed a power back to compliment cook and Hines and we signed one of the better power backs on the market that happened to be coming off his rookie contract, for under 2M.   

10 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

The reason you take away a lot of Allens short yardage carries is because you now have someone who is better at it (Harris>Allen>Singletary).

 

The short yardage carries are unnecessary wear and tear on a franchise QB.  And now with the lessened amount of times that Allen actually takes it himself, the greater the odds those will be successful because the defense will be keying on Harris.

Stop making so much sense!

[Process]

Holy crap. Just saw the contract details. What a freaking signing. Well done BBB.