The Cincy game & its affect on how we view the team

[JohnNord]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They were just 2 of the guys who didn't show up.  

 

 

If you watched the game and concluded that Edmunds and Oliver were the main problem....then I cannot answer your question.

So you still aren’t answering my question… I’m simply pointing out that some of the issues on defense had absolutely nothing to scheme or play calling - players like Edmunds and Oliver (among others) just got their asses kicked. 
 

No matter how hard you want to try - you can’t blame coaching for this.  This destroys your entire argument which you could properly defend in the first place.  L

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I'm not "ignoring" it.  I see the Miami game as a bit flukey in terms of how the Phins stayed in that game. If you want to choose to think that's "how we are," I can't really argue it. I just don't agree w/ it.

 

The team went through a LOT the last part of the season. More than any team I can remember.  When we lost to Cincy, I think it was easy to see the mental exhaustion as the game wore on.  Again - you can say that's "who they are," and I can't argue it.  Teams have to overcome adversity to win a championship. I just thought the adversity THAT team went through hit a tipping point.

 

 

What about the Jets game? Vikings game? Barely beating Detroit? Miami put up over 400 yards against us just a few weeks prior to the playoff game?

 

We were also about to be blown out in Cinci. Remember Cinci carving up our defense down the field and they were driving with ease again before Damar got hurt and the game was ended.

 

To frame a conversation with the context that it was just the Cinci or Miami game is not intellectually honest.

 

The team STRUGGLED for much of the last 2/3rd’s of the season.

[Solomon Grundy]

5 hours ago, Success said:

 

Thompson didn't have a great day against the Bills. That game is a blowout in the Bills favor without the turnovers - especially Josh's fumble/TD, and the pass that bounced off of Beasley.

 

Miami had a couple of drops in that game that may have resulted in a different outcome 

[ToGoGo]

1 hour ago, JMM said:

Great writeup,  but this is WAAAY too reasonable for this board! Don't you know that we are in free fall, the window has closed and McDermott/Beane are failures? 🙄🙄🙄

 

Yeah, my ignore list is filled with those people.

 

Last season was tough, don't get me wrong. It felt like destiny that we were going to overcome all of this and win it all. And then we didn't. The Dolphins game was unexplainably close with a 3rd string QB and then the Bengals game happened. It left everybody confused. "Burning it all down" is the fall-back mechanism for some. They're not tough or realists like they want you to think, they're just "runners". They run when things get tough. Then blow smoke in your face so you don't realize they're quitters. 

 

I think we just ran out of juice. The human mind has limits. We overcame most of them last year. And then the hardest one of all hit (Hamlin) and we had a little juice left, but it ran out quick. 

 

Compare to the Chiefs. Compare Allen's adversity this year to Mahomes limping on a bum leg in the playoffs while the rest of his team stepped up and defenses left Kelce wide open. One is not like the other. I think people want to compare in a vacuum because it's easy, but it's not easy, and that is why certain people always seem to make money on the stock market and others never seem to. The ability to see these complexities in a simplified way is tough.

 

What happened is clear to me:

Bills - Great team that dealt with all-time level adversity and just ran out of gas.

Chiefs - Great team that dealt with some adversity and had many lucky breaks. 

 

Again, these things balance themselves out. Bills will be luckier next year and the Chiefs and Bengals will be unluckier. And when that happens, you bet on the team that has proven they can overcome adversity again and again. 

[Success]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

What about the Jets game? Vikings game? Barely beating Detroit? Miami put up over 400 yards against us just a few weeks prior to the playoff game?

 

We were also about to be blown out in Cinci. Remember Cinci carving up our defense down the field and they were driving with ease again before Damar got hurt and the game was ended.

 

To frame a conversation with the context that it was just the Cinci or Miami game is not intellectually honest.

 

The team STRUGGLED for much of the last 2/3rd’s of the season.

 

All teams have a bit of that.  KC almost lost to Jax.  If Huntley didn't fumble at the goal-line, Cincy wouldn't have gotten past the 1st round.

 

I don't disagree that the Bills struggles in the last month or so, but there were some extenuating circumstances.

 

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

So you still aren’t answering my question… I’m simply pointing out that some of the issues on defense had absolutely nothing to scheme or play calling - players like Edmunds and Oliver (among others) just got their asses kicked. 
 

No matter how hard you want to try - you can’t blame coaching for this.  This destroys your entire argument which you could properly defend in the first place.  L

 

How much more simple can I make this?  Coaching staff's job is to have their playoff team mentally and physically ready for a playoff game. Plus they have to have a cogent game plan.

 

None of that was apparent that day.  It wasn't just a string of boneheaded player errors.   These guys were not properly prepared....and you conclude that this had nothing to do with coaching?

 

lol, ok--well argued.

[Einstein]

Just now, Success said:

I don't disagree that the Bills struggles in the last month or so, but there were some extenuating circumstances.

 

It wasn't the last month or so though. It was since October. 

 

The extenuating circumstance stuff is just excuses. The co-owner was ill when the Bills were smoking the Rams on national TV to open the season and embarrassing the Titans on MNF. The game being moved to Detroit due to snow had zero effect on how the season played out or the loss in the playoffs and that's a good thing, considering we play in Buffalo.

 

The ONLY extenuating circumstance even remotely plausible is Damar.

 

But even that's nonsense considering athletes often have their best performances after loved ones die. Remember Tiger Woods winning the major after his Dad's passing? Allen throwing for 3(?) TD's after his grandma passing? Brett Favre throwing for 4 TD's after his father passed? etc.

 

The extenuating circumstance stuff is just excuses. The team hadn't looked like a top 5 team since October. The playoff loss really wasn't all that surprising considering their play the 2-3 months preceding it.

 

[ToGoGo]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Defenses left Kelce wide open? 😅

 

Come on with this.
 

The Bills were basically exposed against Cincy. Their defensive line without Miller was subpar….on top of Jones being hurt and the Bills offensive line has ALWAYS been bad….couple that with a much better game plan from Cincy and you have the Bills getting their ass kicked. 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree  

[Success]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It wasn't the last month or so though. It was since October. 

 

The extenuating circumstance stuff is just excuses. The co-owner was ill when the Bills were smoking the Rams on national TV to open the season and embarrassing the Titans on MNF. The game being moved to Detroit due to snow had zero effect on how the season played out or the loss in the playoffs and that's a good thing, considering we play in Buffalo.

 

The ONLY extenuating circumstance even remotely plausible is Damar.

 

But even that's nonsense considering athletes often have their best performances after loved ones die. Remember Tiger Woods winning the major after his Dad's passing? Allen throwing for 3(?) TD's after his grandma passing? Brett Favre throwing for 4 TD's after his father passed? etc.

 

The extenuating circumstance stuff is just excuses. The team hadn't looked like a top 5 team since October. The playoff loss really wasn't all that surprising considering their play the 2-3 months preceding it.

 

 

The Hamlin situation isn't comparable. Sorry.

 

We all saw it on the field, and medical professionals have stated this as well:  seeing someone in that situation is absolutely traumatizing. 

 

[Chaos]

21 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

I wouldn't call any Bills turnover down the stretch flukes.  They were routine.

silly take

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Coaching staff's job is to have their playoff team mentally and physically ready for a playoff game

You left part out.  The coaches also have to have themselves prepared.  It seemed McDermott was just ready to be done for the season.  He also seems to have occassionaly games where he makes decisions at the end of the game, that are more about "lets get this overwith one way or another, rather than the optimal plays for the situtation".  The Tennessee game in 2021 sticks in my mind as one of these. 

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

silly take

You left part out.  The coaches also have to have themselves prepared.  It seemed McDermott was just ready to be done for the season.  He also seems to have occassionaly games where he makes decisions at the end of the game, that are more about "lets get this overwith one way or another, rather than the optimal plays for the situtation".  The Tennessee game in 2021 sticks in my mind as one of these. 

 

Filed under "game plan"

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Filed under "game plan"

Even then, they need to be ready to coach.  McDermotts decision to punt near the end of the first quarter will stick with me as long as "wide right".  He wasn't up to the task of properly coaching the team that day.  Even if somehow the game plan made sense. 

[ToGoGo]

15 minutes ago, Success said:

 

The Hamlin situation isn't comparable. Sorry.

 

We all saw it on the field, and medical professionals have stated this as well:  seeing someone in that situation is absolutely traumatizing. 

 

 

I think what's going on is that the "Bills suck and aren't good enough to win the SB" narrative requires fans to dismiss all adversity faced by the team this year. As if both teams came into the game in a vacuum in relatively equal circumstances. 

 

Adversity becomes "excuses" when you want to pretend it doesn't exist. Just shocking response by that poster. Shocking. 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Jim said:

So idk if Minnesota fits in here, but Von had a huge sack on third down that for all intents and purposes should’ve put that game away. Unfortunately our recently re-signed superstar Cam Lewis thought an interception would be cooler than just knocking the ball away and winning the game. 

 

OK, so what?  You're still spinning here. 

 

We still gave up 33 points and 481 yards, 334 passing and 147 rushing on about 6 YPC.  

 

So because of what you said that's good or excusable?  
 

Stay focused on what the crux of our disagreement is.   

[Dopey]

14 minutes ago, Success said:

 

All teams have a bit of that.  KC almost lost to Jax.  If Huntley didn't fumble at the goal-line, Cincy wouldn't have gotten past the 1st round.

 

I don't disagree that the Bills struggles in the last month or so, but there were some extenuating circumstances.

 

Towards the end of the season the Chiefs beat the Texans by 6 points , in OT. Beat the broncos by 3 and 6 points respectively. Not exactly killing it. We were on a 8 game winning streak before the loss to Cincy. In that streak, we out scored our opponents 207-137. That’s almost 9 points a game.The vocal negative Nancies forget this is the NFL and winning by more than a TD per game isn’t struggling. Even without the extenuating circumstances. What fan wouldn’t want that from their team? Oh yeah, the VOCAL negative Nancies. Just because they keep yelling it, doesn’t make it true. Don’t let them change your opinion. 

[JMM]

1 hour ago, ToGoGo said:

 

Yeah, my ignore list is filled with those people.

 

Last season was tough, don't get me wrong. It felt like destiny that we were going to overcome all of this and win it all. And then we didn't. The Dolphins game was unexplainably close with a 3rd string QB and then the Bengals game happened. It left everybody confused. "Burning it all down" is the fall-back mechanism for some. They're not tough or realists like they want you to think, they're just "runners". They run when things get tough. Then blow smoke in your face so you don't realize they're quitters. 

 

I think we just ran out of juice. The human mind has limits. We overcame most of them last year. And then the hardest one of all hit (Hamlin) and we had a little juice left, but it ran out quick. 

 

Compare to the Chiefs. Compare Allen's adversity this year to Mahomes limping on a bum leg in the playoffs while the rest of his team stepped up and defenses left Kelce wide open. One is not like the other. I think people want to compare in a vacuum because it's easy, but it's not easy, and that is why certain people always seem to make money on the stock market and others never seem to. The ability to see these complexities in a simplified way is tough.

 

What happened is clear to me:

Bills - Great team that dealt with all-time level adversity and just ran out of gas.

Chiefs - Great team that dealt with some adversity and had many lucky breaks. 

 

Again, these things balance themselves out. Bills will be luckier next year and the Chiefs and Bengals will be unluckier. And when that happens, you bet on the team that has proven they can overcome adversity again and again. 

Looking back,  it's almost amazing they went 13-3. And the Miami playoff game a bit misleading,  easily could and probably should have been a blowout at half. They were spent emotionally though no doubt. Cincinnati had a tremendous emotional advantage, but they were the better team that day and physically dominated us. It is what it is. The Bills are still a top 5 team on paper right now. We could flame out next year and not even make the playoffs.  We ALSO could just as easily win it all. Not many teams can realistically say that. I'm looking forward to a season where we don't have all the crazy expectations and I think the team and especially Josh is going to have a huge chip on his shoulder. We shall see. Still think we have a bright future and will win one, if not two SB with Allen.

 

[Airseven]

Plenty of obvious issues with the team well before the Cincy game, but that game crystallized - it was the hard slap across the face where even the most ardent deniers had to face reality.
 

Of course now, with time, some fans are right back to thinking the OL is good to go among other wishful thinking.😆

[ganesh]

On 3/19/2023 at 2:24 AM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

There’s just no way to think we can beat them now, until we see it.  Both times we saw them last season, our defense was on skates. Zero answers. The 1 saving grace is Fraizer being gone. If we ran back the same defense, it was going to be a very helpless feeling. At least now you think it can be different. But again, I’ll have to see us beat them before I know they can.

Why blame the defense only, I don't think the offense did any justice by scoring FGs in the Red Zone.

[The Red King]

Let me sum this up.  OP maintained that any and all current negative feelings and evaluations are the direct result of the Cincy game and only the Cincy game.  The replies here prove that as patently false.  A lot of people here saw and spoke about the cracks in the foundation, and were blasted for pointing them out.

[Dopey]

7 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Plenty of obvious issues with the team well before the Cincy game, but that game crystallized - it was the hard slap across the face where even the most ardent deniers had to face reality.
 

Of course now, with time, some fans are right back to thinking the OL is good to go among other wishful thinking.😆

Every team has issues, even KC. People who have positive vibes about the franchise are not deniers. It’s just our opinion of the franchise. No slap to my face. Sucks for you you feel you got slapped in the face over a loss, but what is the he need to dump on positive posts? I, for one and not going down the 💩 hole some of you live in. It smells like ass in that place. Come out and get some sunshine. There’s a wonderful world out here. It’s ok for some to like what the franchise is doing. It really is ok.