The Cincy game & its affect on how we view the team

[Believer]

Given reality??… Much deeper and more competitive division next season… 

 

Beane needs to add a couple more respected vets with SB success…

 

McDermott, Dorsey and Allen need to raise their game planning and play-calling a couple notches…

 

McDermott needs to get better staff input to improve his in-game decisions…

 

All doable

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

 

To date, the Bills have added a no name tiny WR 

 

Incorrect. He is already on his second name of his NFL career 😀

[newcam2012]

16 minutes ago, Believer said:

Given reality??… Much deeper and more competitive division next season… 

 

Beane needs to add a couple more respected vets with SB success…

 

McDermott, Dorsey and Allen need to raise their game planning and play-calling a couple notches…

 

McDermott needs to get better staff input to improve his in-game decisions…

 

All doable

No easy task. Not to mention avoid major injuries and have a solid draft. Again doable but not easy.

 

I'm not feeling Super confident after last year's Bengal thrashing and a fortunate win vs Miami with a 3rd string QB. 

 

Looks to be a formidable schedule, Miami seems to be all in, the Jets are likely getting Rodgers, and the Jags are up and coming. 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Incorrect. He is already on his second name of his NFL career 😀

Very witty. I like it. 

[zow2]

Winning the Super Bowl is about having a good team (obviously), having the ball bounce your way a few times during the season and staying clear of major injuries. It’s also paramount to hit your peak late in the season as the playoffs begin.  Buffalo hit their peak after game #2,  then willed their way to some stretches of winning while not playing all that well.  So i give them props for that. But they prob should have lost to Skylar Thompson Miami who had no trouble moving the ball on us. Then playing a team in Cinci with a solid D scheme, that was the end. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It's far more than one game.

Its Nathan Peterman 

It's defense choking at Houston

It's 13 seconds 

Its watching the whole offense struggle for 2/3rd of last season 

 

It's watching a defensive minded coach waste the best QB in Bills history.  

It's going into a game against KC and now Cincinnati knowing we will be outcoached and Allen is our only hope.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Winning the Super Bowl is about having a good team (obviously), having the ball bounce your way a few times during the season and staying clear of major injuries. It’s also paramount to hit your peak late in the season as the playoffs begin.  Buffalo hit their peak after game #2,  then willed their way to some stretches of winning while not playing all that well.  So i give them props for that. But they prob should have lost to Skylar Thompson Miami who had no trouble moving the ball on us. Then playing a team in Cinci with a solid D scheme, that was the end. 

Miami’s offensive production in the playoff game was horrible. They averaged 3 yards per play, the qb rating was under 40, and 15 of their 31 points were gifted to them by the Bills’ offense and ST. The Bills D dominated them.

Edited March 19, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Miami’s offensive production in the playoff game was horrible. They averaged 3 yards per play, the qb rating was under 40, and 15 of their 31 points were gifted to them by the Bills’ offense and ST. The Bills D dominated them.

And yet they were losing at home in the playoffs in the 3rd quarter against a 3rd string QB and RB. 

[BarleyNY]

16 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

 

It was not just the Cincy game for me. I had my concerns with how the team had played late in the season and then against Miami in the playoffs. The Bills would not have won that game if the Dolphins had a competent QB to line up that day. We beat Skyler Thompson by 3 points. At home. 

 

Since the Cincy game I’ve learned about Allen’s injury and its impact on his throwing. That explains why he couldn’t throw short or intermediate routes that well and why Dorsey moved away from calling plays for them. I still have concerns about the play calling - especially since the elbow greatly improved and Dorsey stuck with a ton of deep throws. There also seems to be a big problem with Allen checking down. I don’t know how much is on him versus Dorsey but it’s a problem.

 

On defense the Bills fell off dramatically when they lost Von Miller. His ability to return to form will have a huge impact on this defense. As for coaching, let’s hope we see a step forward - especially in the playoffs. 

 

There are concerns on the personnel side too. The OL needs brought up from below average to above average, Allen needs another legit weapon and the coaches will need to find a way to develop their defensive linemen.

 

The worst of it for the Bills the last few seasons has been the coaching in the playoffs. There is no sugar coating it. It’s been horribly flawed and if it doesn’t get fixed then those coaches are wasting years of a HOF QB’s career - not to mention the fans time, money and emotional investment. 

[machine gun kelly]

15 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

 

Now that we've had several weeks to process last season, I think it comes down to a series of unfortunate events. 

 

•Micah out for the season

•Josh's elbow injury 

▪︎ Von out for the season

• Damar almost dying

 

....then factor in blizzards,  shootings, Kim almost dying.  Name me one organization that could absorb all that and have the emotional capacity to advance.  There isn't one.  We won't take a step back as long as this team collectively takes a "deep breath". The chaos of 2022 will probably never be duplicated again.

LA, that’s inserting too much common sense.  These are not just excuses, they are real, and additively it did play a role in how emotionally and physically exhausted the Bills were in the playoffs. We almost lost to the Fish the week before.

 

we won’t know until we beat them in season.  We did though beat the Chiefs in the regular season twice in Arrowhood.  That is an accomplishment.

 

Ill reserve judgment on the roster until we come out of training camp.

 

Like many of you I will be paying a lot of attn to the draft.  We need to hit on several picks.  For me it’s a WR, TE, and G.

Edited March 19, 2023 by machine gun kelly

[The Red King]

Remember, some posters started pointing these out as early as the GB game.  Those same posters got laughed and yelled at, with the familiar mantra of...well, we're 10-3, 11-3...and so on, as if having that record had to mean we were flawless.

 

And the things those posters were pointing out as concerns were the exact same things Cincy used to wreck us.  So no, in a number of cases people are not basing their own opinions on one game.  They saw it coming and got shouted down for speaking up.

[jethro_tull]

It was a bitter loss and although it was "one game" it had a lasting effect because the team didn't have any other lopsided loses last season and it was a home playoff game under very high expectations for us and the players.  

The fact that they had no other lopsided loses is a good sign.  

The loss happened for a variety of reasons-

1) Effort and execution.  The Bills had a decline in their emotional effort because of the reality of the events that happened in the previous game with Cincinnati. The game plan was off on both sides of the ball, players were straining for motivation and pressing while the Bengals were cool and calm professionals. 

2) Familiarity.  If the previous Bengals game had been completed, the Bills could have learned from that game and it would have been much closer.  Studying video is one thing but actual game time gets them much more familiar with each other.  

3) Roster match ups.  Of course out of balance roster match ups in critical positions had a big influence on the outcome.  Our OL vs, the Bengals DL is likely the worst case, with our coverage LBs and DBs vs. the Bengals WRs, RBs and TE (they really spread the ball around) was imbalanced as was our DL vs the Bengals OL in run stop and pass pressure.  Our defense had their worst game of the year and our run game was non existent.  

 

The Bengals are now the target team to beat, much like the Titans were in '20 and '21 and of course the Chiefs.  The Bills responded well to those teams and their off season will now need to focus more on beating them from a roster and game plan perspective.  I have confidence they can do it.  

[BillsFan130]

15 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

It wasn’t just “one bad game”…

 

They were lucky to win against Miami the week before with Skylar Thompson at the helm…

 

They were on the decline the second half of the season…

This^. Said that even when they were on their winning streak and got blasted for it.

 

Their only convincing W since the bye was at NE. There was a lot of struggles against mediocre teams

[jethro_tull]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

This^. Said that even when they were on their winning streak and got blasted for it.

 

Their only convincing W since the bye was at NE. There was a lot of struggles against mediocre teams

Division familiarity is a big factor.  

[patzen]

16 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

I strongly agree OP. The fact is that if we had started the season with no Von Miller, no DaQuan Jones, no Micah Hyde, and an injured Josh Allen we would not have been the overwhelming Super Bowl favorites. Heck, we probably wouldn't even have been the favorites at all. Was the loss disappointing? Of course it was. Does it dampen my expectations or excitement for the future of this team? Not one bit. 

[Magox]

It’s easy to overanalyze the results of one game, especially so when you get beat up so convincingly on both sides of the ball.

 

There is no doubt that the team despite its win streak over the past 2 months was not firing on all cylinders and there were many reasons for that but even so, we were winning.

 

There doesn’t need to be any sort of an overhaul,  Allen will be healthy to begin the season, Miller and Hyde will be back, White should begin looking like a closer version of himself, Spencer Brown shouldn’t have his back issues, McGovern should be a good upgrade in the pass game, Harty should add another effective weapon to the arsenal and hopefully Dorsey will better use his weapons and their strengths to the offense.

 

A few tweaks and the team will be right there competing for the top spot in a very tough AFC.

[Ga boy]

18 minutes ago, jethro_tull said:

It was a bitter loss and although it was "one game" it had a lasting effect because the team didn't have any other lopsided loses last season and it was a home playoff game under very high expectations for us and the players.  

The fact that they had no other lopsided loses is a good sign.  

The loss happened for a variety of reasons-

1) Effort and execution.  The Bills had a decline in their emotional effort because of the reality of the events that happened in the previous game with Cincinnati. The game plan was off on both sides of the ball, players were straining for motivation and pressing while the Bengals were cool and calm professionals. 

2) Familiarity.  If the previous Bengals game had been completed, the Bills could have learned from that game and it would have been much closer.  Studying video is one thing but actual game time gets them much more familiar with each other.  

3) Roster match ups.  Of course out of balance roster match ups in critical positions had a big influence on the outcome.  Our OL vs, the Bengals DL is likely the worst case, with our coverage LBs and DBs vs. the Bengals WRs, RBs and TE (they really spread the ball around) was imbalanced as was our DL vs the Bengals OL in run stop and pass pressure.  Our defense had their worst game of the year and our run game was non existent.  

 

The Bengals are now the target team to beat, much like the Titans were in '20 and '21 and of course the Chiefs.  The Bills responded well to those teams and their off season will now need to focus more on beating them from a roster and game plan perspective.  I have confidence they can do it.  

Good points and I have confidence we will get better.  The reality is that Cincy, KC and Philly would’ve all embarrassed us.  Better to lose to Cincy which validated what we all knew:  we need to improve OL, WR, and RB.  We’ve got the best QB and I want to see him with a SB ring.

[Stuartjohn]

17 hours ago, Playoffs? said:

I think what that game did was expose our weaknesses. Both sides of our lines were beaten up and down. Offensively, we realized that we’d been leaning on a crappy O-Line all season, but Allen made up for it.  In this game, Allen was off, and we suffered the consequences. We had it coming.  Allen and Diggs need help, and our other players need to step up. 
 

On the D-Line, we realized that we pretty much sucked without Von. Injuries compounded the problem. And our D scheme was pitiful… playing soft, allowing QB’s to get the ball out quickly, and not allowing our linemen to get to the opposing QB.  Our secondary was decimated..

 

I think we’ll be back in the mix.. but definitely tempering expectations.

I agree Not Drinking the kool aid like last year! Love the Bills but Cincinnati & KC are better than us Now! 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

2 hours ago, Buckets said:

I'm still concerned about Dorsey, things need to change on play calling. Like what was mentioned before, quick short passes.

Offense actually improved statistically.  Josh’s arm limited the quick screen game, OL was horrible, Gabe Davis caught 50% of passes thrown to him, L’Dirty experiment failed and we don’t have a RB on the roster capable of taking over a game.  But yeah Dorsey is the problem.

[JohnNord]

11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

In fairness… the Carolina Panthers of 2015 went 15-1..the next year they went 6-10… considering the schedule it’s not out of the realm for the Bills to regress.

Jax is better as constructed…. And better coaching. 

You could say they same thing Kansas City.  How many Super Bowl teams failed to make the playoffs the next season?  It doesn’t mean it will happen.

[JohnNord]

14 minutes ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Offense actually improved statistically.  Josh’s arm limited the quick screen game, OL was horrible, Gabe Davis caught 50% of passes thrown to him, L’Dirty experiment failed and we don’t have a RB on the roster capable of taking over a game.  But yeah Dorsey is the problem.

The word people are looking for is disjointed on offense. You’d see moments where the bigger shot plays were there, but they would follow up with turnovers or 3 and outs to allow the other team back in the game.

The factors you mentioned are there but I also don’t think you saw very much scheming or creativity in playcalling from Dorsey.  Biggest example was the lack of a short passing game an an answer to aggressive defenses.