The Cincy game & its affect on how we view the team

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

They looked like they had no idea what type of game plan would work in the snowy conditions. As for a dome, that ship sailed a long time ago. Ultimately,  this team’s coaching may be its Achilles heel. 

I think you are spot on here. 

 

The game plan, coaching, play calling, and in game adjustments were not satisfactory. Often, that's the difference between winning and losing.

 

It's been pretty clear that the Bills coaching staff has underperformed in big games. I think it's fair to start questioning whether changes might be needed. One positive is Fraizer is gone. Now we will see what McD has. 

[stuvian]

We came out soft and got exposed by getting outplayed in conditions where we should have the advantage. It wasn't just the Cincy game. We aren't a tough team in the trenches and we can't tackle. We're a track team on both sides of the ball. We also rely on Josh too much to bail us out and I can tell our D was relying on Von Miller in a similar way until he went down. We're playing like we're a little too enamored of ourselves and haven't earned it. 

 

I also think Zac Taylor is the best coach in football. Clappy got schooled. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I think you are spot on here. 

 

The game plan, coaching, play calling, and in game adjustments were not satisfactory. Often, that's the difference between winning and losing.

 

It's been pretty clear that the Bills coaching staff has underperformed in big games. I think it's fair to start questioning whether changes might be needed. One positive is Fraizer is gone. Now we will see what McD has. 

So I have to agree with us a little bit
 

You would think that a team that plays in Buffalo would know their own to weather

 

I just think the bills were not built for cold-weather

 

I think that tight end is a sneaky need I believe that they have been trying to incorporate to tighten sets since last year, but just did not have the horses whenever the free agent that we brought it didn’t work out

 

Would not be shocked to see us draft one, and we were in on Parham

[Dr.Sack]

I think the cumulative effect of injuries destroyed our season. If the Bills can stay relatively healthy they will be alright in 2023. 
 

Miller and Hyde hurt. Poyer playing with injuries hurt. Hamlin going down was big. Tre White missing 70% of the year was not ideal. Benford going out with multiple injuries set the CB room back. Allen’s elbow and Davis’ high ankle were bad.
 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Hope they have fixed the issues with their cleats by now..

 

They played like they were on roller skates…

The Bills just aren't built for snow like the teams of old. It's not an advantage anymore. I wish a dome was coming but it's not. Somehow this finesse based roster will have to find a way and adapt.  Winters in Buffalo aren't magically going to be sunny and 60°.  They gotta find a way.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

So I have to agree with us a little bit
 

You would think that a team that plays in Buffalo would know their own to weather

 

I just think the bills were not built for cold-weather

 

I think that tight end is a sneaky need I believe that they have been trying to incorporate to tighten sets since last year, but just did not have the horses whenever the free agent that we brought it didn’t work out

 

Would not be shocked to see us draft one, and we were in on Parham

I agree on the tight end portion of your post. Another weapon would be great. 

 

However, I think the weather factor was and is overrated. The Bills can and know how to play in the cold. Plenty of examples to site. I don't think weather was much of a factor in the Bills playoff loss. 

 

Rather, it was poor coaching, poor game plan, poor adjustments, lack of talent in the trenches, injuries, poor play/execution, and a poor WR core. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by newcam2012

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, stuvian said:

We came out soft and got exposed by getting outplayed in conditions where we should have the advantage. It wasn't just the Cincy game. We aren't a tough team in the trenches and we can't tackle. We're a track team on both sides of the ball. We also rely on Josh too much to bail us out and I can tell our D was relying on Von Miller in a similar way until he went down. We're playing like we're a little too enamored of ourselves and haven't earned it. 

 

I also think Zac Taylor is the best coach in football. Clappy got schooled. 

Yes McDermott got outcoached by both McDaniels & Taylor. The only difference is Josh & Co. somehow willed us to a close win against Miami.  By the Cincy game the tank was bone dry.  Sean's game day strategy will always concern me. It's just part of how our team is built. 

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, Adam727 said:

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way.  

 

When Beane got here we weren't a great team.  Then we were a fringe playoff team that I did not expect would have a chance against teams like KC.  The last two years I think Beane closed the talent gap and the Bills are as good (or almost as good) as any team in the AFC.

 

Everyone remembers two years ago for 13 seconds.. the single thing I'll remember it for above all else is we lost to a coin toss.

 

Last year, despite major injuries at important positions all across the roster, the Bills held their own destiny to the #1 spot and lost it due to no fault of anyone's when their teammate almost died on the field.

 

I think maybe the first round of the playoffs you can get a bye or get lucky and play a team like NE that didn't deserve to be there.  But after that I view the last two playoff games and superbowl as almost coin tosses no matter how good you are.  At that point you're playing against equally good teams and anyone can beat anyone on any given day.  

 

Maybe I'm being too much of a homer but I think the Bills already have the talent to win it all and Beane's focus should shift a little to making sure  he keeps that window open for as long as possible because some of it comes down to luck and the best way to defend against that is to give the team as many opportunities as possible.  

Definetly a homer point of view here. Nothing wrong with that perspective. However, some points seem a bit too rosey. 

 

I remember 13 seconds. The coin toss should have never happened! The coin toss was a result of a complete inexcusable Bills collapse. 

 

At some point, the Bills have to move forward and actually make a Super Bowl appearance. Win the whole damn thing.

 

We fans shouldn't be satisfied with playoff appearances and early exits. Are we satisfied with this due to the previous failures season after season? Are we settling for less as a result? 

 

KC and Cinci are better teams than the Bills. AFC division foes are breathing down the backs of the Bills. Imho, the Bills organization, coaches, and players have squandered the last two years. 

 

Fast forward to this year and really analyze the team's roster. There are needs on both sides of the line, WR, LB, TE, etc...As previously mentioned by a poster "the game is usually won in the trenches." Do you really feel confident that this oline and dline can compete with the big boys? 

 

The old saying is (even used by Beane with the exception of this year)  you are as good as your last game. 

 

I will remain hopeful but skeptical this Bills team can take the next step forward. 

[Rico]

Chiefs and Bengals were both below & looking up at the #1 seed Bills until Damar Hamlin on MNF. That’s a fact. 
 

[L Ron Burgundy]

11 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

You could very well be right.  But you could also be completely wrong and that game clearly demonstrated how we are behind the top 5 or so teams.  We tend to play our worst ball in the playoffs,  when it counts.  We're not physical. 

 

So far, we are a worse team heading into next season.   Not exactly debatable imo.  Obviously theres a lot of time.  I don't really see Beane's plan right now either and I think that's what's making some of us nervous.  Our drafts have been pretty crappy so if our plan is to mostly fill gaps from there well, there's a reason to be pessimistic. 

 

Oh man I'm becoming a constant complainer.

[newcam2012]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

We lost a coin toss.., after some ridiculously bad defense…after two TOs from McD. It’s inexcusable… it will weigh over him until they either win the SB or he is fired.

Unfortunately, fans will have to relive that ending for decades. Think Tennessee miracle.

6 hours ago, stuvian said:

We came out soft and got exposed by getting outplayed in conditions where we should have the advantage. It wasn't just the Cincy game. We aren't a tough team in the trenches and we can't tackle. We're a track team on both sides of the ball. We also rely on Josh too much to bail us out and I can tell our D was relying on Von Miller in a similar way until he went down. We're playing like we're a little too enamored of ourselves and haven't earned it. 

 

I also think Zac Taylor is the best coach in football. Clappy got schooled. 

Agree with everything but the Zac Taylor comment. I think he's just an average coach with a great QB, great DC, and a very nice roster. If he was great they would have beaten the Rams in the Super Bowl. It wasn't too long ago Bengals fans were callung for his head. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

I think the cumulative effect of injuries destroyed our season. If the Bills can stay relatively healthy they will be alright in 2023. 
 

Miller and Hyde hurt. Poyer playing with injuries hurt. Hamlin going down was big. Tre White missing 70% of the year was not ideal. Benford going out with multiple injuries set the CB room back. Allen’s elbow and Davis’ high ankle were bad.
 

 

Come on man. All teams go through injuries. With the exception of the QB, teams should be built to overcome most injuries. 

 

I'm really tired of the injury excuse. Josh and the offense were as healthy as could be! They put up 10 points in the biggest home playoff game in recent memory. 

 

The Bengals had 3 offensive linemen out and still dominated the Bills dline.

 

KC had Mahomes playing on one leg vs Jacksonville. He was limited in the Bengals game too. Went on to win the Super Bowl with limited mobility and injury. 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yes McDermott got outcoached by both McDaniels & Taylor. The only difference is Josh & Co. somehow willed us to a close win against Miami.  By the Cincy game the tank was bone dry.  Sean's game day strategy will always concern me. It's just part of how our team is built. 

I don't think it's ok to accept that your coaches game day strategies are poor. That's a major part of coaching. 

 

Early in McD and Bills are I really liked his game plans and in game adjustments. Perhaps, it was because the bar was set so low by previous coaches. 

 

I feel that McD has detoriated in this department the last couple years. He seems to play second fiddle to good coaches in big games. Clearly, this has been the case the last two years. Very disappointing playoff losses that he clearly contributed to.

 

The Bills may regress this year and it might be time for change. 

[Steptide]

When the Cinci game happened, I kinda felt the bills were on the verge of having a game like that, and unfortunately it was in the playoffs. As some have mentioned, I definitely think injuries played a part this season. Having said all that, they still won 13 games. It'll be really interesting to see what Dorsey does in year 2 and what the defense looks like minus Fraizer 

[newcam2012]

12 minutes ago, Steptide said:

When the Cinci game happened, I kinda felt the bills were on the verge of having a game like that, and unfortunately it was in the playoffs. As some have mentioned, I definitely think injuries played a part this season. Having said all that, they still won 13 games. It'll be really interesting to see what Dorsey does in year 2 and what the defense looks like minus Fraizer 

Dorsey needs to improve. 

 

I'm.very interested in seeing how a  McD led defense performs. 

[BillsFanSD]

14 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

It wasn't just the Cincinnati game.  The Bills were the best team in the league before their bye.  They were not the same team after the bye.  Some of it was probably Allen's elbow. Some of it was probably other stuff that we don't really know about -- this team is incredibly opaque to its own fan base and our beat reporters are mostly cheerleaders.  But regardless of the "why," the fact is that the Bills were just pretty good during the second half of the season, and lots of us noticed the drop-off at the time it was happening.  

 

You're forgetting the way they almost lost to a Skylar-Thompon-led Dolphins team at home in the WC round.  That was a red flag.  The Bengals loss didn't just come out of nowhere.

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Dorsey needs to improve. 

 

I'm.very interested in seeing how a  McD led defense performs. 

There may be some small regression record wise in the regular season. In substance, the team needs to become an offense that can thrive where Josh Allen is a force multiplier of the weapons around him. One can accept Allen putting his body at risk more frequently in the playoffs, but if there isn't a real basis for another modus operandi during the season, he'll be ready for the glue factory in a few years ala Cam Newton. Hopefully Dorsey improves and accomplishes a more integrated offensive game plan where all the tools are used and the run and pass game compliment one another. (This does not mean abandon the primary pass offense; that would be ridiculous given Josh Allen.) We'll see if McDermott embraces a less passive defense and if the draft picks develop beyond utterly mediocre along the DL.

 

Post-season success is the measuring stick for coaching regimes. I suspect McDermott will have to fail by that standard several more times before he would be replaced, but the criteria of playoff victories is the only one that really matters when you have a franchise qb.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

That game broke this MB, it hasn’t been the same since.

With good reason.

 

This team is fraudulent. I'm not sure it's ceiling isn't the divisional round, still. Coaching is a liability in the playoffs.

[Buckets]

I'm still concerned about Dorsey, things need to change on play calling. Like what was mentioned before, quick short passes.

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

There may be some small regression record wise in the regular season. In substance, the team needs to become an offense that can thrive where Josh Allen is a force multiplier of the weapons around him. One can accept Allen putting his body at risk more frequently in the playoffs, but if there isn't a real basis for another modus operandi during the season, he'll be ready for the glue factory in a few years ala Cam Newton. Hopefully Dorsey improves and accomplishes a more integrated offensive game plan where all the tools are used and the run and pass game compliment one another. (This does not mean abandon the primary pass offense; that would be ridiculous given Josh Allen.) We'll see if McDermott embraces a less passive defense and if the draft picks develop beyond utterly mediocre along the DL.

 

Post-season success is the measuring stick for coaching regimes. I suspect McDermott will have to fail by that standard several more times before he would be replaced, but the criteria of playoff victories is the only one that really matters when you have a franchise qb.

Great last paragraph. Agree 100% with it. 

 

The Bills offense will always be above average because of Allen. He is just that good.

 

The stats for the Bills offense was very good last year. Imho, Dorsey was learning on the job. He wasn't terrible but I felt Like the offense lacked an identity and continuity. However, the achiles heal was a weak offensive line and lack of WR talent. This has to change or we can expect similar or worse results. 

 

To date, the Bills have added a no name tiny WR and an average to good guard. Really nothing to get overly excited about. Beane I'm sure has a few more moves up his sleeve. The draft is looking to be critical too.