The Cincy game & its affect on how we view the team

[Billz4ever]

2 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

Cincy owned us in the trenches on both sides of the ball and it showed.  We couldn't get to Burrow or stop the run and Josh was repeatedly running for his life to escape the sack.  In a nutshell, that was what decided the game and if we don't adequately address that this offseason, they will do it to us again.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Billz4ever

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

To an extent I agree. The Bills played their worst game of the year by far in the playoffs. That sucks. But it also happens sometimes. The trick in the NFL is to be playing your best football at the end which is why 2021 hurts because they were and they were mostly healthy and they blew it. 

 

But I do think where they are in the cycle some regression, at least in regular season record, is to be expected in 2023. I see then having a win or two fewer but still winning the East and then the question will be can they got hot down the stretch?

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

To an extent I agree. The Bills played their worst game of the year by far in the playoffs. That sucks. But it also happens sometimes. The trick in the NFL is to be playing your best football at the end which is why 2021 hurts because they were and they were mostly healthy and they blew it. 

 

But I do think where they are in the cycle some regression, at least in regular season record, is to be expected in 2023. I see then having a win or two fewer but still winning the East and then the question will be can they got hot down the stretch?

We have a brutal schedule next season, so 13 wins is going to be very hard to duplicate again in the first place.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

We have a brutal schedule next season, so 13 wins is going to be very hard to duplicate again in the first place.  

 

The road slate is certainly a tough one. They should go 9-0 at home though. 

[BillsFan2313]

2 hours ago, birdo67 said:

Eh, it's one of my main shticks (schticks is also acceptable).

 

[TheWei44]

2 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

One of the best posts I've seen here - Thanks for the insightful "put things in proper perspective" post!

[Solomon Grundy]

It's not just the Cincy game for me. It's also the Miami game with Skylar Thompson. The Jets game with Zach Wilson. 

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

I don't think it was just the cincy game. That game was a culmination of the season after the bye week where even if they did manage to win.. the team seemed off and prone to fits of futility for relatively long stretches of games. Whether it was Allen's elbow, the massive amount of drama around the team, the weight of the massive expectations, injuries, etc.. we'll never really know, but they weren't right for a long time. 

 

There was an increasing frustration for me (and I suspect many other fans) around the continued deep shots with what seemed like no strategy to it such as backing off the defense and running or throwing short. Throw in that for 2 years in a row they've been incapable of sticking with the running game even when it was working or the sensible thing to do. The impressively bad execution at screen passes. A lot of things just didn't make sense and without any real explanation for it.. it became a flashpoint when those things blew up in the playoffs. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Malazan

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

It's not just the Cincy game for me. It's also the Miami game with Skylar Thompson. The Jets game with Zach Wilson. 

 

I mean Miami with Thompson barely moved the ball. They had one drive of more than 30 yards. It was just our offense and STs kept tripping over themselves to give them short fields. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

54 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

It wasn’t just “one bad game”…

 

They were lucky to win against Miami the week before with Skylar Thompson at the helm…

 

They were on the decline the second half of the season…

This. The Lions gave them all they could handle. Struggled with the Browns.  Heck, the Bears gave them some trouble in the first half. 

[Malazan]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I mean Miami with Thompson barely moved the ball. They had one drive of more than 30 yards. It was just our offense and STs kept tripping over themselves to give them short fields. 

 

That's his point..

[Einstein]

It’s not just the Cinci game.

 

We BARELY beat a THIRD STRING QB led Miami team… at home…in the cold! I don’t care that it was fumbles or ST’s that kept them in the game. It’s all part of the team and game.

 

The team overall looked lethargic since the GB game in October. Losing to Zach Wilson was an absolute punch in the gut.

 

We were not even close to a top 5 team the last 2 months of the season.

[Sierra Foothills]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

 

Now that we've had several weeks to process last season, I think it comes down to a series of unfortunate events.

• Micah out for the season
• Josh's elbow injury 
• Von out for the season
• Damar almost dying
• Blizzard/home game in Detroit
• The Tops shootings
• Kim almost dying.

Name me one organization that could absorb all that and have the emotional capacity to advance.  There isn't one.  We won't take a step back as long as this team collectively takes a "deep breath". The chaos of 2022 will probably never be duplicated again.

 

I agree with the above as the main reasons for a disappointing 2022 season. As one reason I would describe it as emotional exhaustion.

 

The impressive winning streak to end the regular season obscured the fact that the team was not really playing well.

 

In the playoffs you could clearly see the team had nothing left.

 

2 hours ago, mannc said:

It wasn’t just one game.  We came close to losing to the Dolphins (led by their third string rookie QB) at home the week before. And of course there’s the Monday night bengals game, which was looking a lot like the Bengals playoff game. There is ample reason to believe that real change is needed.

 

What I think many are missing is that LABILLBACKER's explanation above applies also to the mediocre play in the final two regular season games as well as both playoff games.

 

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

The Cincinati game definitely influenced my view.  Going into the playoffs, I thought the Bills were the second best team with the primary difference being Reid being a much better big game coach than McDermott.  We were so badly outcoached in the Bengals game, only a week after being outcoached by a clearly less talented Miami team, that is hard to come back to the idea, that we are part of the big two.   

The way we were outcoached, to me, was reminiscent of the Bills outcoaching the Raven's and giving the better teams in the league the blue print to beat the Ravens.  I feel like the Bengals have exposed to the other good teams in the league exactly how to beat the Bills.  And for all of its success, the McDermott regime has always seemed more stubborn, than adaptable.   Hopefully I am either wrong on that, or that this changes.  

 

Though I subscribe to the emotional exhaustion explanation, there are legitimate questions as to how the loss of Brian Daboll affected the offense (stats be damned, Josh and the offense were not as good). In addition I believe the departure of Leslie Frazier is a tacit admission that McDermott's defensive scheme needs some fresh input.

 

In my mind it is a legit question as to whether the McBeane regime which has done such an excellent job of pulling us out of the 17 year playoff drought and restored respectability to the franchise, can finish the job and take us the final steps.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Sierra Foothills

[Einstein]

55 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Also not playing 10 yards off the receivers on 3rd and 3 might help.

 

The worst part of that was watching Andy Reid practically mock us on national TV the following weekend by playing press man coverage on nearly every Cinci throwing down and shutting down their potent offense. 

 

It’s like Reid was saying: “watch this McDermott - THIS is how it’s done”

 

Brutal

[Wizard]

You raise a good point that the general consensus on this Board was the Bills were a top 2-3 team.

 

I think the panic is as follows:

 

1. We have had a good defense but when it mattered in our last two playoff exits, defense did not matter.

 

2. The Bills have really been a one trick pony on offense. This is the blessing and curse of Josh Allen. He is our best RB, masks most of our offensive line problems, and he and Diggs are the only two consistent threats on offense.

 

3. McDermott and Beane are so invested in continuity that they get in their own way at times. This is why I and some others on this board are wondering why there seems to be less urgency on the fact we have a very green OC, no true #2 receiver, and a very average offensive line when we are so close to a Super Bowl.

 

4. The Chiefs and Bengals stand in the way. The AFC East teams appear to all be on the rise too. NOW, is the time to win the Championship.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Wizard

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

There’s just no way to think we can beat them now, until we see it.  Both times we saw them last season, our defense was on skates. Zero answers. The 1 saving grace is Fraizer being gone. If we ran back the same defense, it was going to be a very helpless feeling. At least now you think it can be different. But again, I’ll have to see us beat them before I know they can.

 

And Von and Hyde didn’t play against them.  
 

Jones didn’t play RD 2.  
 

 

[Don Otreply]

   What frustrates everyone, wether they say so or not, is that no meaningful adjustments were made on the O or D to counter what the coaches knew was coming, they ran the same game plan that was soundly beaten in the first game against the Bengals.
 

   With the coaching changes on the D side we may or may not see a team that can adjust as necessary, on the O side we might see a coordinator that has learned to use personnel more effectively, “so far”  the O -line has seen only minor improvement in free agency, I get the feeling not a whole lot more is going to be done to improve that room, even though it is the unit in need of the most help, fingers crossed 🤞 that I’m wrong on this point, and Beane will draft real talent to shore up the O-line.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Southern_Bills]

It was just one game, it's just it has happened multiple times in big situations under the current regime, so it is a bit alarming. 

 

Reminded me of the first time we played KC in the playoffs. 

 

We should be past these type of games at this point. Honestly this years team will be much more of a question mark than last year's team was.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

3 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

 

Kansas City had 1 bad game against Cincinnati and they went out and signed Thuney, traded a 1st for Orlando Brown, won SB #2. Buffalo had a bad game against Cincy and we signed a previous backup G Conner McGovern (could turn out to be special but Thuney was an all pro), like I've stated before i don't think we're done building up the OL. Build a juggernaught OL and I don't see any of these teams stopping us if we can give Allen time to pick them apart imo. When I see people writing that they like the idea of Ryan Bates starting at LG or RG it's laughable to me, he's not terrible but no way should he be starting unless someone is injured again it's my opinion.

[FLFan]

3 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

Agree.  There has been a massive overreaction by fair weather fans and self styled so called objective “fans”.  We were probably over  confident to start the year which did not help the woe is us hysteria that resulted at the end of the year.  Injuries took a major toll on the team, as did external circumstances.  Players who were counted on to step up did not.  Lessons will be taken.  The Bills are still a strong contender.  The draft will have its impact , and then the coaches will need to meld the revised team into winning form.  Injuries over the course of the year and just the breaks of the game will have their impact as always, but i expect the Bills to be in contention from beginning to end again.  Any greater expectation, of any team, is simply unrealistic.