The Cincy game & its affect on how we view the team

[Nextmanup]

18 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

First, it's *EFFECT* on how we view the team....

 

You overlook the fact that it was NOT one game.  It was the one game we all saw coming for 2 months.   A lot of us could see we would fall far short of winning a SB, when we ran into a good team in the playoffs and got our heads handed to us...b/c we had been playing sloppy, poor, disjointed football for like 8 or 9 consecutive games at that point.

 

It wasn't a one punch KO!  That game was simply the coup de grace after 2 months of slowly being beaten down.

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Since you didn’t answer my question, I’ll ask it again…Which part of coaching involved Tremaine Edmunds and EdOliver getting physically bullied by Cincinnati’s makeshift OL?

 

 

 

They were just 2 of the guys who didn't show up.  

 

 

If you watched the game and concluded that Edmunds and Oliver were the main problem....then I cannot answer your question.

[Nextmanup]

17 hours ago, birdo67 said:

*effect

Thank you.

 

I like the people who respond negatively to you or do the "Eye roll" thing.

 

Real winners, all.

 

 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

The word people are looking for is disjointed on offense. You’d see moments where the bigger shot plays were there, but they would follow up with turnovers or 3 and outs to allow the other team back in the game.

The factors you mentioned are there but I also don’t think you saw very much scheming or creativity in playcalling from Dorsey.  Biggest example was the lack of a short passing game an an answer to aggressive defenses.  

I get your point but there were so many analysts that I respect in the media like Cosell, Sam Monson and Sims calling out the lack of talent surrounding Josh and the awful OL all season.  I’m not saying Dorsey is perfect but when your #2 can’t uncover or catch, your slot is so bad that he was replaced by a guy who sat on a couch for 15 weeks and your 4th year RB is clearly not prioritized by a single team in the NFL,  you're playcalling is gonna be effected. 

I’d also mention that sometime Josh is gonna do what Josh is gonna do regardless of scheme.  The Dolphins playoff game was a perfect example of that.  Guys were wide open underneath all game but he refused to take the easy stuff. 
Lastly, this is the NFL, not college. The idea of scheming guys wide open rarely happens and if it does it’s probably a busted coverage. 
Shanahan is the one guy who does that but we don’t have their OL and supporting cast around Josh. 
Beane’s draft record the last 4 years is awful and his skill and OL picks have been brutal. Not a single playmaker in 4 years. Not a single OL worth anything in 4 years.

Dorsey just got here as an OC

[BananaB]

Didn’t really change my views at all. McDs team normally gets embarrassed once a year, this time it was in the playoffs. 

[BillsFanSD]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Miami’s offensive production in the playoff game was horrible. They averaged 3 yards per play, the qb rating was under 40, and 15 of their 31 points were gifted to them by the Bills’ offense and ST. The Bills D dominated them.

Okay, but . . . offense and ST are part of the game.  The Bills gave up 31 points to a team led by Skylar Thompson.  It doesn't really matter how many of those points are credited to the offense, the defense, or special teams.  That simply shouldn't happen.  Period.

[NickelCity]

1 hour ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Offense actually improved statistically.  Josh’s arm limited the quick screen game, OL was horrible, Gabe Davis caught 50% of passes thrown to him, L’Dirty experiment failed and we don’t have a RB on the roster capable of taking over a game.  But yeah Dorsey is the problem.

 

I think Dorsey is a major problem, despite the stats. His situational play calling and the ability to rapidly adjust (if he can adjust at all) seems extremely suspect. Offensive clashing is my biggest concern for the upcoming season. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

19 hours ago, Success said:

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

I agree on your assessment that the Bills are a top team still. The troubling thing is that the number of top teams in increasing exponentially. At the start of the 2021 season, you could say the top teams were the Bills and the Chiefs. That's only two teams. The Bengals improved enough that year that by the end of the 2021 season they had won the conference and also staked claim as one of now three top teams in the AFC. So, to start the 2022 season, we had three top teams. 

 

Fast forward to this upcoming season and I think we will end up with 4 or 5 top teams in the conference. Jags, Jets and Dolphins all look like teams fully capable of taking the next step up in 2023. You also have the Chargers who are still talented but still may Charger it up. But if just two of these four teams do take the full step up then we have 5 top teams in the conference. This is why it feels like the Bills have blown their window to make it to the Super Bowl. They still can but the road is getting much more difficult with each passing year. 

 

The biggest reason I am down on the Bills is that for two straight seasons they were at one point the conference favorites to make it to the super bowl, held the 1 seed around Halloween and had beaten the Chiefs in KC each of those two seasons. Yet, they managed to not finish the season as the one seed and managed to go backwards in playoff success each of those two seasons. As Bills fans, how are we supposed to take early season success next year if we once again beat KC at KC and have the one seed six or 8 games into the season?

 

On the one hand it would be nice because I am sure there will be more than a few predicting the Bills to not even win the division. But on the other hand, wake me up when the playoffs start and let's see how the team does. Feels like McDermott and Beane's long-term future in Buffalo hinges on what happens in the postseason next year. 

 

I also agree that the Bengals are just a bad match up. Bills would have fared better against the Chiefs and I still expect that to be a continued trend. 

5 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

Okay, but . . . offense and ST are part of the game.  The Bills gave up 31 points to a team led by Skylar Thompson.  It doesn't really matter how many of those points are credited to the offense, the defense, or special teams.  That simply shouldn't happen.  Period.

 

It matters depending on where you are trying to place the blame. Offense, defense or special teams. The WC game against Miami was a lot like the first game against Miami this last season. The defense was put in terrible spots by the offense, but the defense did a good job overall. The offense moved the ball with ease most of the game but made too many critical errors. 

 

In all three games last year against the Dolphins you could say the offense moved the ball with ease in all three of them but made too many critical errors in 2 out of the three games. While the defense played well in two out of the three games. 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

7 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

I think Dorsey is a major problem, despite the stats. His situational play calling and the ability to rapidly adjust (if he can adjust at all) seems extremely suspect. Offensive clashing is my biggest concern for the upcoming season. 

So just ignore Josh‘s UCL injury which was reported to limit his throwing motion, the complete lack of offensive skill, the OL play and Beane’s putrid draft record 4 years running?

[gjv]

I think, the post-Hamlim on-field cardiac arrest Bills, were not the Bills team that played prior to that horrific event. Judging by the interviews after Hamlin's incident, especially Tre White's, I believe many players internalized the event and lost focus. No way would a depleted Patriot team or third-string-led Dolphins have been a match for the pre-Hamlin incident Bills. I'm hoping every player on the roster has come to terms with what happened to Hamlin and has moved on.

[PBF81]

20 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

We're two different teams, one in the playoffs, one during the regular season.  

 

I'm curious why everyone thinks why that would be the case.  

 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by PBF81

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

20 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

There’s just no way to think we can beat them now, until we see it.  Both times we saw them last season, our defense was on skates. Zero answers. The 1 saving grace is Fraizer being gone. If we ran back the same defense, it was going to be a very helpless feeling. At least now you think it can be different. But again, I’ll have to see us beat them before I know they can.

Our oline absolutely steamrolled them the first drive of the regular season matchup…not sure what happened the second time. They’re gonna score their points much like the chiefs are but that was such a huge failure on the offensive side too 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We're two different teams, one in the playoffs, one during the regular season.  

 

I'm curious why everyone thinks why that would be the case.  

 

 

Team is built around disguising looks with our safeties and the 4 man rush and we lost von, Micah hyde and poyer was playing hurt.  We would’ve gotten lit up on defense down the stretch by great teams in the regular season too there just weren’t any on the schedule

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Team is built around disguising looks with our safeties and the 4 man rush and we lost von, Micah hyde and poyer was playing hurt.  We would’ve gotten lit up on defense down the stretch by great teams in the regular season too there just weren’t any on the schedule

 

And Miami with Thompson?  And last season? 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

And Miami with Thompson?  And last season? 

Right lol that adds to my point but I thought that went without saying 🤣. 

[Success]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

And Miami with Thompson?  And last season? 

 

Thompson didn't have a great day against the Bills. That game is a blowout in the Bills favor without the turnovers - especially Josh's fumble/TD, and the pass that bounced off of Beasley.

 

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Right lol that adds to my point but I thought that went without saying 🤣. 

 

What, that they didn't play well against a crap offensive team?  Even, if not particularly, the front-7.  You mentioned the secondary's issues primarily.  Von Miller was out for most of the season.  Didn't seem to impact games against similar offenses during the regular season.  

 

2 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Thompson didn't have a great day against the Bills. That game is a blowout in the Bills favor without the turnovers - especially Josh's fumble/TD, and the pass that bounced off of Beasley.

 

 

By last season I meant the 2021 season.  Happy to hear an explanation.  

 

[Since1981]

Team is top 8 in 2023

Team just wasn’t the same people or mentally by the Cincinnati game. Worn out. Are they better than KC? Maybe not but top 8. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

What, that they didn't play well against a crap offensive team?  Even, if not particularly, the front-7.  You mentioned the secondary's issues primarily.  Von Miller was out for most of the season.  Didn't seem to impact games against similar offenses during the regular season.  

 

 

By last season I meant the 2021 season.  Happy to hear an explanation.  

 

Didn’t impact games in the regular season?  I’m not sure what you mean.  The front 7 took a nosedive with von out…I’m not sure how anyone can disagree with that point.  We went from top 5 in the league in pressure rate to bottom 1/4th.  
 

jets outgained us, NE outgained us, Miami put up 400+ yards.  Just because we won still doesn’t mean it wasn’t an issue.  It was just masked by an easy schedule to close out the year. 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, JohnNord said:

The word people are looking for is disjointed on offense. You’d see moments where the bigger shot plays were there, but they would follow up with turnovers or 3 and outs to allow the other team back in the game.

The factors you mentioned are there but I also don’t think you saw very much scheming or creativity in playcalling from Dorsey.  Biggest example was the lack of a short passing game an an answer to aggressive defenses.  

Agreed.... it was accurately said by many that the offense had no identity, tempo or creativity. Once Quessenberry got Josh injured,  the whole short game disappeared. Now you rely on deeper routes with lower completion percentages.  I'm not saying Dorsey had a great rookie season....he didn't,  but there are other obvious factors to take into consideration.