The Cincy game & its affect on how we view the team

[Success]

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

[birdo67]

*effect

[Augie]

Time will tell, but I’m certainly not hitting the panic button. Nothing to be gained there. I sure would love to nail this draft, I’ll tell you that!!!

1 hour ago, birdo67 said:

*effect

 

A PM would work there, too.

 

Or two.

 

Or to. 

 

😋

 

 

.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Augie

[birdo67]

Eh, it's one of my main shticks (schticks is also acceptable).

[MasterStrategist]

Offensiviely, the problem was going against the type of defense Cincy deployed, similar to the Jets scheme they ran.  We need better short passing game and running in the interior.

 

Same problem against teams that ran all out pressure, Miami will be tougher this yr and KC.

 

To counter, we better interior line play and a more dynamic slot receiver.  

 

Defensively, agree...we played too soft on all levels.  Again need better interior DL play.  Daquan was a big missing piece, but we need another meanie in the middle.

 

These are fixable, and already got 2 pieces.  Need 2 more pieces in the draft/Fa

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

There’s just no way to think we can beat them now, until we see it.  Both times we saw them last season, our defense was on skates. Zero answers. The 1 saving grace is Fraizer being gone. If we ran back the same defense, it was going to be a very helpless feeling. At least now you think it can be different. But again, I’ll have to see us beat them before I know they can.

[Playoffs?]

I think what that game did was expose our weaknesses. Both sides of our lines were beaten up and down. Offensively, we realized that we’d been leaning on a crappy O-Line all season, but Allen made up for it.  In this game, Allen was off, and we suffered the consequences. We had it coming.  Allen and Diggs need help, and our other players need to step up. 
 

On the D-Line, we realized that we pretty much sucked without Von. Injuries compounded the problem. And our D scheme was pitiful… playing soft, allowing QB’s to get the ball out quickly, and not allowing our linemen to get to the opposing QB.  Our secondary was decimated..

 

I think we’ll be back in the mix.. but definitely tempering expectations.

[Mikie2times]

29 minutes ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

Let me alter your narrative a bit. We had no business ever being ranked ahead of the Bengals. Cincinnati was off a Super Bowl appearance, returned everybody, then proceeded to back it up with elite level QB play all of 2022. They had beat KC multiple times, in the playoffs, and up until the AFC championship game had never lost to KC.  Somehow these facts escaped the media hype train that was running out of control post Josh's epic performance in 13 seconds. We are among the elite teams in football, but we are not better than KC or the Bengals at this time nor do we have any objective basis to make such a claim. We have also been taken to the woodshed by at least one team, every year. It was the Colts the year prior, the Titans the year prior to that. That's not to say being crushed in one game determines if we are or aren't, but beating either KC or the Bengals in the playoffs most certainly does. We have not done so, they have beat each other, including being undefeated against us in the playoffs, they're better. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by KzooMike

[LABILLBACKER]

 

Now that we've had several weeks to process last season, I think it comes down to a series of unfortunate events. 

 

•Micah out for the season

•Josh's elbow injury 

▪︎ Von out for the season

• Damar almost dying

 

....then factor in blizzards,  shootings, Kim almost dying.  Name me one organization that could absorb all that and have the emotional capacity to advance.  There isn't one.  We won't take a step back as long as this team collectively takes a "deep breath". The chaos of 2022 will probably never be duplicated again.

[mannc]

35 minutes ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

It wasn’t just one game.  We came close to losing to the Dolphins (led by their third string rookie QB) at home the week before. And of course there’s the Monday night bengals game, which was looking a lot like the Bengals playoff game. There is ample reason to believe that real change is needed.

[Success]

13 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Let me alter your narrative a bit. We had no business ever being ranked ahead of the Bengals. Cincinnati was off a Super Bowl appearance, returned everybody, then proceeded to back it up with elite level QB play all of 2022. They had beat KC multiple times, in the playoffs, and up until the AFC championship game had never lost to KC.  Somehow these facts escaped the media hype train that was running out of control post Josh's epic performance in 13 seconds. We are among the elite teams in football, but we are not better than KC or the Bengals at this time nor do we have any objective basis to make such a claim. We have also been taken to the woodshed by at least one team, every year. It was the Colts the year prior, the Titans the year prior to that. That's not to say being crushed in one game determines if we are or aren't, but beating either KC or the Bengals in the playoffs most certainly does. We have not done so, they have beat each other, including being undefeated against us in the playoffs, they're better. 

 

That's a really fair perspective.  For sure, we haven't proven a thing until we prove it in the playoffs.  That's the test for this team.

 

And we were overhyped last year, mainly because the 13 seconds game was so stunning, as you said.  I think the media wanted the next Brady/Manning, or something like that.  I was never comfortable w/ the hype - and that was before Romo started calling our big games.

 

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

It wasn’t just one game.  We came close to losing to the Dolphins (led by their third string rookie QB) at home the week before. And of course there’s the Monday night bengals game, which was looking a lot like the Bengals playoff game. There is ample reason to believe that real change is needed.

 

I thought about the Miami game, and you're right to call that out.  But I'd add to that that KC barely made it past the Jags that weekend, and if Huntley doesn't fumble at the goal-line, Cincy's journey would have ended right there.

 

We were up 17-0 on Miami, and statistically dominated them most of the game.  Our turnovers kept them close - those are part of the game, but they were also a little flukey.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

6 minutes ago, Success said:

 

That's a really fair perspective.  For sure, we haven't proven a thing until we prove it in the playoffs.  That's the test for this team.

 

And we were overhyped last year, mainly because the 13 seconds game was so stunning, as you said.  I think the media wanted the next Brady/Manning, or something like that.  I was never comfortable w/ the hype - and that was before Romo started calling our big games.

 

 

I thought about the Miami game, and you're right to call that out.  But I'd add to that that KC barely made it past the Jags that weekend, and if Huntley doesn't fumble at the goal-line, Cincy's journey would have ended right there.

 

We were up 17-0 on Miami, and statistically dominated them most of the game.  Our turnovers kept them close - those are part of the game, but they were also a little flukey.

 

Should we have been the preseason favorite....No.  We were absolutely over-hyped. And with that goes more pressure on a team. We simply ran out of gas trying to beat the Dolphins.  There was nothing left in the tank. 

[Sharky7337]

I don't think it's the cinci game alone. I think it's the fact that 13 seconds happened, after an offseason with some expectations, and start to the season that amplified those, and then worse result then previous year and a division that is now going to be challenging.

 

Cincinnati is a pain point because in the opening minute of the damar hamlin game, we saw the same flawed defensive strategy and lack of grit. Which makes it even more worrisome as a fan hoping to get over the hump and learn from our mistakes.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

That game broke this MB, it hasn’t been the same since.

[akcash]

I'm not worried. But I will tell you I was there and it was a perfect day with the beautiful snow coming down... it was literally the perfect stage. And I was tough sitting there seeing my team get throttled on this perfect stage in front of the country in Buffalo conditions on our home turf. Against the swaggy that makes me cringe Bengals who have a QB that has the same physical tools as Mac Jones cept hes a Robot. It really made me want to puke.

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

That game broke this MB, it hasn’t been the same since.

Sad but true

[CincyBillsFan]

31 minutes ago, Success said:

 

We were up 17-0 on Miami, and statistically dominated them most of the game.  Our turnovers kept them close - those are part of the game, but they were also a little flukey.

 

And don't forget a dropped TD pass that kept it from being 21 - 0, a dropped 55 yard pass to Shakir, our ST's gave up a 57 yard punt return and the Finns scored 6 off a fumble. That game was sort of like the Bills season in weird stuff happening.

 

 

 

 

[Chaos]

The Cincinati game definitely influenced my view.  Going into the playoffs, I thought the Bills were the second best team with the primary difference being Reid being a much better big game coach than McDermott.  We were so badly outcoached in the Bengals game, only a week after being outcoached by a clearly less talented Miami team, that is hard to come back to the idea, that we are part of the big two.   

The way we were outcoached, to me, was reminiscent of the Bills outcoaching the Raven's and giving the better teams in the league the blue print to beat the Ravens.  I feel like the Bengals have exposed to the other good teams in the league exactly how to beat the Bills.  And for all of its success, the McDermott regime has always seemed more stubborn, than adaptable.   Hopefully I am either wrong on that, or that this changes.  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

Good post.  
 

I don’t think we’ll take a step back either.
 

Getting Saffold out of the lineup will have an immediate impact on pass protection.  

 

While I’m not confident in Spencer Brown becoming a good RT, I think he can be 100% better than he was last season a year removed from surgery.  

 

I love Deonte Harty and I think he’s going to be a nice playmaker for our our offense and open up the field because defenses have to account for him in the short and deep pass game 
 

Frazier Is a great man and a very good DC, but I feel our D will be in better hands with McD.  We’ll be less predictable and a little more aggressive.  Losing Edmunds but gaining Miller, Hyde, healthy Poyer and Tre. The D will improve

 

Dorsey was like Mason Rudolph Vs the pass rush.  A deer in headlight, at times last season.  He’s learning and I can’t believe that he’ll get worse. He knows this season could be his last as a potential HC candidate and as an OC.  He has Josh Allen to gift him a HC job somewhere if he plays his cards right. I think he’ll be in the film room all offseason 24/7 trying to add new wrinkles and plays.  He’ll be improved as will the O.

 

Gabe is playing for big bucks-  he’ll be improved 

 

Cook will have another year and Hines will have some offenses plays implemented.

 

Miami and the Jets are going to be much better, but if we can keep the right players healthy, we’ll be better to.  And we have 17

 

 

 

 

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

I agree we were the best team in the league until the Bengals game, but it changed at the conclusion of the MNF Bengals game. Should have 2 rings in 2 years right now.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Rico