Singletary—inarguably above average statistically: discuss

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, 2003Contenders said:

BB indicated that the team is looking for a power back, which Singletary is not. To me that leaves the following options:

 

1. Davis or Hunt are about all that are left in free agency

2. Trade for Henry

3. Draft a big back in the middle rounds

 

I suppose with the RB market drying up the way it has and DS remaining unsigned, the Bills could be interested in bringing him back at a bargain price -- but I think they would still be looking for a power back, most likely in the draft in this situation.

 

We could've had Foreman but for some reason it didn't seem like Beane really pursued.  He'd have come cheap too.

 

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Wouldn't have minded Foreman at all. 

 

But maybe Beane was all over that. We won't know unless there are some leaks about it or Beane shares regrets or something along those lines.

 

 

 

He signed with the Bears for $3M.  I can't believe we couldn't do better than that if we tried.  Plus, we had the advantage of being a contender.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Billz4ever

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

Do you even understand anything about burst to the line?  probably not.  Why do you think Allen is running so much and taking so many hits,  with teams loading up against the pass the running game is there.  They have not had a starting level RB in years,  Singletary relies on quickness and making guys miss.  That is not going to happen against most NFL defensive players.  He is an average RB and no team will offer him a contract because of it.

 

 

How about you Singletary supporters explain if he was so good and it's all on the line why no other teams are interested.  Sure resign him at league min,  but if they want to improve on offence they need a starting level RB so were not asking our QB to run the ball and expose him to hits.

Do you practice being arrogant or are you just gifted in that regard?

 

There is no more dependent position in the league than RB. Blocking matters, schemes and when plays are called matter.  I (and I venture to say other “Singletary supporters”) have never said that he is a star.  He is a solid starting RB that a team can win with.  Allen runs, in part, because it allows an extra blocker on those plays that isn’t available on RB carries - unless your QB is blocking.

 

I don’t care if you put even a better back behind this OL, they aren’t going to thrive without better blocking and schemes.  I think we can agree that OJ Simpson was a great RB - do you know that he didn’t top 800 yards in a season until his 4th year?  That had to do with OL play and, I’ll concede, addition of a better passing game that defenses had to account for.

 

 

[Mikey152]

Light boxes and not a lot of short yardage carries are a big reason his YPC are so high. I think the fact that when its 3rd or 4th and 2 or goal to go, they aren't giving the ball to Devin very often (and when they do he doesn't have a great track record)...that's why they aren't bringing him back.

 

That said, I don't think he is a bad back. He's just not what the Bills need.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Mikey152

[Thurman#1]

35 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

There is a reason we do not hear about any teams interested in signing him,  he an average back and we have had a non existent running game for the past 3-4 years because of it.

 

 

No, and that's dumb. On the face of it that's a conclusion that simply doesn't follow from the facts. What that shows very clearly is that you're so desperate to make a point that you'll use any evidence, even irrelevant evidence, even a complete lack of evidence to try unsuccessfully to make your point. It only speaks to your extreme confirmation bias.

 

Again, did you hear all about our interest in Connor McGovern. If your logic had any basis at all, that would have proved that nobody was interested in Connor McGovern. 

 

Again, says more - far more - about your confirmation bias than it does about Devin Singletary.

 

The actual reason we do not hear about any teams that are interested in signing him are ... well, we have no idea. There are almost an infinite number of possible reasons. They are many, they are various and until we get evidence, they are guesswork of the absolute purest kind. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

We could've had Foreman but for some reason Beane it didn't look like Beane pursued.  He'd have come cheap too.

He signed with the Bears for $3M.  I can't believe we couldn't do better than that if we tried.  Plus, we had the advantage of being a contender.

 

 

Again, you haven't a clue whether or not he pursued. For all you know his girlfriend is from Chicago. There is zero good evidence - right now at least - that they didn't go after him. 

 

 

Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence. It simply ... is ... not.

 

They didn't get him. That's what we know.

 

You can't believe we couldn't have done better? Well, I disagree. I like him but not that much, but who knows, maybe your're right. Time will tell.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Thurman#1

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Do you practice being arrogant or are you just gifted in that regard?

 

There is no more dependent position in the league than RB. Blocking matters, schemes and when plays are called matter.  I (and I venture to say other “Singletary supporters”) have never said that he is a star.  He is a solid starting RB that a team can win with.  Allen runs, in part, because it allows an extra blocker on those plays that isn’t available on RB carries - unless your QB is blocking.

 

I don’t care if you put even a better back behind this OL, they aren’t going to thrive without better blocking and schemes.  I think we can agree that OJ Simpson was a great RB - do you know that he didn’t top 800 yards in a season until his 4th year?  That had to do with OL play and, I’ll concede, addition of a better passing game that defenses had to account for.

 

 

Not sure I agree with the last sentence. The ‘73 Bills featured a rookie QB that was clearly not established as a passer. They just gave the ball to OJ and dared the defense to stop him. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

While i agree with OP. I think many of us, myself included would be fine with Singletary coming back if the price is right. The problem is the RB position has been devalued so much it just doesn't make sense to pay more than the minimum you can get away with at the position. Singletary deserves to try and get as much as he can while he can on the open market. Even if it is "only" a couple million more than the Bills would offer on a two- or three-year contract, that's still $2 million more at a position that really doesn't make 10's of millions anymore. Got to get what you can when you can.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Singletary is a shifty back w/ surprising toughness for his size. Serviceable receiver and adequate in pass pro. Most importantly he is durable!  The fact that he is able to churn out decent yardage w/ such subpar run blocking is pretty impressive. No, he’s not explosive like Saquon or a punisher like Derrick Henry, but he’s a top notch complimentary back that can do just about everything . I think his role in Buffalo is perfectly suited for him and I hope they re-sign him. Like a previous poster mentioned…the grass isn’t always greener. He’s been a key piece in a proven offense so why mess with that? If people want to see more production then FIX THE LINE. 

[OldTimer1960]

14 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not sure I agree with the last sentence. The ‘73 Bills featured a rookie QB that was clearly not established as a passer. They just gave the ball to OJ and dared the defense to stop him. 

I understand your point, but Fergy was at least as good as Dennis Shaw even as a rookie.  But the point is that they had built a very good OL by then.  The Electric Company turned on the Juice!

[BarleyNY]

12 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Singletary has averaged 4.7 ypc for his career (and 4.7 in 2022) and the league average in the years he has played is between 4.3 and 4.4 (trust me, but look it up if you doubt me: https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/league-average-yards-per-carry-by-running-backs-2022).  Since he has entered the league, he has always been above league average. And lest you think any RB can average these numbers, Frank Gore averaged 3.6 ypc in 2019 for the Bills (a year in which Allen had 510 yards rushing and nearly 5 ypc). Point is, the grass ain’t always greener.

 

Singletary is solid. Happy to have him back at or near vet min. Very good at pass pro. Not great as a receiving back. Tough runner but smaller so workload with the Bills has always been light. Good production on limited carries. That seems like a nice fit except for the pass catching. Still, he’d have a role here. 

[Thurman#1]

40 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

The guy works extremely hard...but he is not a threat whatsoever. Opposing teams are thrilled when he gets the ball

 

 

Right. Teams are "thrilled" when a back runs for 4.6 YPC against them, as Singletary does. They get all warm and fuzzy. You see DCs posting those stats on Instagram, when RBs get 4.6 per carry on them.

 

 

 

[Niagara Dude]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Do you practice being arrogant or are you just gifted in that regard?

 

There is no more dependent position in the league than RB. Blocking matters, schemes and when plays are called matter.  I (and I venture to say other “Singletary supporters”) have never said that he is a star.  He is a solid starting RB that a team can win with.  Allen runs, in part, because it allows an extra blocker on those plays that isn’t available on RB carries - unless your QB is blocking.

 

I don’t care if you put even a better back behind this OL, they aren’t going to thrive without better blocking and schemes.  I think we can agree that OJ Simpson was a great RB - do you know that he didn’t top 800 yards in a season until his 4th year?  That had to do with OL play and, I’ll concede, addition of a better passing game that defenses had to account for.

 

 

We're done on this topic,  you seem to think Singletary is a great back ti have and I don't agree if we make to improve on bringing him back.  No need to insult each other, it's ok not to agree with rock throwing.

[Scott7975]

Singletary is a good back and under appreciated here. Our o line was terrible. We hardly ever ran the ball. Singletary still produced. That said, when people say “running backs are a dime a dozen,” Singletary is the type of back they are referring to. A good back that will get the job done but not elite where he makes a defense sweat. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Scott7975

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Any team sign Singletary yet? 

[Low Positive]

So, I have it on good authority that Devin Singletary is above average statistically but could not start on any of the other 31 NFL teams. I read it on the Internet, so it must be true.

[DrPJax]

12 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Singletary has averaged 4.7 ypc for his career (and 4.7 in 2022) and the league average in the years he has played is between 4.3 and 4.4 (trust me, but look it up if you doubt me: https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/league-average-yards-per-carry-by-running-backs-2022).  Since he has entered the league, he has always been above league average. And lest you think any RB can average these numbers, Frank Gore averaged 3.6 ypc in 2019 for the Bills (a year in which Allen had 510 yards rushing and nearly 5 ypc). Point is, the grass ain’t always greener.

      Stats mean little as they dont reflect play at critical times, drops that kill drives, big runs in a game or two that boost the stats, fumbles that are recovered Burt still halted a drive, how is your performance around the goal line, how dependable are you in short yardage , do you have enough burst to break off long runs, can you add more to the passing game like being more than a receiver in the flats, can you run a circle route and create mismatches , are you consistent from game to game, can you be depended on to actually score tds , can you break tackles after first contact.  Just throwing up a ypc number adds almost no insight compared to watching an entire season of plays. Plus comparing him to a much older rib in gore who was at the very end of his career is ridiculous.  Can you be depended on to convert third down runs so Allen doesn’t have to be the leading rusher as a franchise qb?  Again, do you do all that weekly , consistently, or is your performance spotty or hot and cold.  Very little of that is answered by ypc.  

 

     I know its terrible and blasphemy to be constructively critical of a bills player on this site and it leads to personal attacks because its a simple, lazy way to just try to negate an argument 0r discredit a poster.  Not in any way saying you do that at all or ever , but i can give examples of people who will attack ones opinion, as if their view is more valid or carries more weight , even tho its just another  opinion or their INTERPRETATION of stats or games.   Somehow,  lost in their narcissism,  they are obviously correct and so rather than just move on, they feel obligated to be dismissive or qualify their attacks with blatant bs like ‘ no disrespect, but”,  rather than just moving on which is simple and is actually respectful.   If you dont think its an issue , look up the dark triad or tetrad now as described by Jordan Peterson , who is a brilliant psychologist , author , speaker and the dark tetrad relates to anonymous keyboard warriors so prevalent now who have to be dismissive or machiavellian in their unrequested responses. 

 

      I appreciate your opinion and work in your post.  It is certainly one type of valued option or thought. . As a bills and NFL fan since ‘63 , having grown up watching two hof bills backs in OJ and THURMAN, in my opinion devin is a very avg and somewhat limited RB. He is not a good pass catcher or running screens. . There have been quite a few drive killing drops in his career. He can at times be a good runner but imo, compared to very good backs, he has games where he goes down with light contact , and he still is a fumble risk despite us recovering some of them.   He is very avg  IMO with the eye test compared to hard runners like we have seen in kc, Cincy, and the jets prior to the injury, and in CONTRAST,   in a passing offense like the k gun was , Thurman was excellent as a receiver and lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for 3 years in a row. Devin is just not a complete threat in that sane way.

       That’s just my opinion having watched each for at least 4 years.  So while his ypc is above avg, i still see him as a very avg back. The key question is could we do better or should we settle for this known situation “ at the right price” , whatever that means.   Just like my opinion i posted about letting edmunds go as i feel we can at least match his production , but expect to even be better as the BILLS apparently agreed, , i feel its a mistake to bring Devin  back only  because we wouldn’t have to spend much on him,   Let’s see how the bills decide; there is no right answer as it depends on the eye of the beholder.   I hope they move on , try to find those traits I mentioned esp as there is no shortage of available backs. We know what he does, and this O has not been described by  any analysts as being a good running team , in fact they say the opposite and need to find a back to take the leading rusher role away from josh. 

 

It’s just an opinion , not looking to get in any debate as i formed my opinion after watching every game he played. People got mad when i opined i believe the fins, jets may overtake the bills this year depending on the off-season and draft and Dorsey’s development. It was happening last year. Split games with fins/jets/ almost blew the playoff game to fins with a 3rd string qb. They are making impressive moves so far.  Cincy and kc are currently better than us until mcd proves he can beat them in the playoffs. We struggled in bad weather as it affects our pass dominant game and josh didn’t play great in games like the Cincy game , so developing an effective run game to augment the offense , allow josh to perhaps not make as many mental errors ( all the red zone ints were a problem and in lower possession games , it can be a big issue.) and perhaps we can advance in the high pressure playoff games.  There is no time to learn from losing in the playoffs , correct?

 

     Sorry but you dont see mahomes make as many mental errors, as he has a running game and receivers who make plays for him. Hey , fact is he has lead his team to 2 sb victories, while we played in one afc championship game, and lost 2 divisional games with a supposed strong roster.    Despite the easily visible trend of the offense struggling the later part of the season , i was told trends mean nothing from week to week and constantly heard we were guaranteed to win the SB. Those are facts that can be proven by looking at last years posts ,,,,it was a guaranteed win and if anyone felt differently, they were attacked and they were told they were not good fans and worse.  It is analogous to bringing up data about a certain disease or ‘prevention’ , mob mentality wouldn’t  allow even simple discussion and time has not been kind to that thinking.  Well, easy to see trends did matter and we have catching up to do if we are to be a real SB contender.

 

     Again, just an opinion, there is no absolute right or wrong. WITH that premise , I would look for a better back than devin despite your well written post; If we dont run more efficiently and diversify the offense  , Dorsey’s true test, i dont think we will win a SB ,  not until we can consistently convert short yardage runs , and have a back as the leading rusher , not josh.    Should be interesting to see beanes actions and if it works. I appreciate your points on Devin, i just believe we can do better regardless of how cheap he may sign for , and if he returns , i expect approximately the same production. Not bad, but bot great and who knows, maybe the grass is greener as we have no SB wins/ appearances and I thought that was the goal and why McD  was hired.  Best wishes! 😊👍 

 

 

 

 

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[Gunsgoodtime]

He is inargubly not been signed by any team with Rbs being signed left and right

[RoyBatty is alive]

35 minutes ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Any team sign Singletary yet? 

What is your best guess?  Do you think posters are hiding the secret or something?

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

33 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

What is your best guess?  Do you think posters are hiding the secret or something?

No teams want him 🙁

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Any team sign Singletary yet? 

 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/running-back/all/

 

RB market is bottoming out. Top of the FA market is $6.25M AAV (not including Saquon Barkley’s FT). Third highest AAV is $4M. Many RBs making big money are being shopped or cut. It’s already a buyer’s market so players like Singletary will be signing cheaply or not at all. 

[SCBills]

Even if Singletary wants to come back on the minimum deal, his skill set is not what we need.  
 

Power. Back.  
 

Someone to take short yardage from Josh Allen. 
 

That’s not Singletary.