Singletary—inarguably above average statistically: discuss

[BuffBillsForLife]

The king of the JAGs.  Give Cook the reins.

[BuffaloRebound]

Cook is gonna be on the field more in his 2nd year and Hines will be used more as well.  I think McDermott wants a downhill bruiser to round out the RB room.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I love Cook, but he is small. He is legit 25 pounds less than his brother, and he was protected at georgia despite the obvious talent. The bills need another back, obviously, and my point is why not take the guy who knows the offense and who is above-average productive by every nfl measure assuming he’s affordable?

You want a list of a the sixth-seventh round rookies in the last five years who didn’t pan out? Happy to provide it. This is akin to arguing that we should wait til the 6th round to draft qbs because, you know, tom brady.

🤷🏻‍♂️

 

The Buffalo Bills FO picked him in the 2nd Round.

 

Why are you taking Running Backs in the 2nd Round if you don’t think they can hold up?

 

Again, come Year 4, you draft another cheap RB and start the process again.

 

The key here is don’t get attached.

 

Also, Bills have Jones, Settle, Oliver at DT and no 4th DT on the roster.

 

Shaw Lawson is a FA so Von better be able to start Week 1. 
 

Your starting MLB right now is Terrell Dodson.

 

And the Bills have 5 WRs under contract now. 
 

So there are more pressing uses of the $9M left per Beane than Singletary. 
 

 

[BillsFanForever19]

20 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I’d be shocked at this point if he does.

 

What value does he bring to our team? He’s not a special teamer. He’s not a good short yardage back. He’s not a great pass blocker. He’s not big enough to wear down defenses.

 

There a loads of guys who can do these things VERY well and THAT is the skill set we need.
 

If we re-sign Singletary, is the idea that we would have Cook, Singletary, Hines AND a power back in the backfield or do you just not want a power back on the team?

 

It seems like a bad fit. Say what you want about the player, but we don’t need his skill set.

 

I'm not for or against the idea of Singletary coming back. I'm simply aware of the RB market situation and the emphasis this regime places on bringing back their own and team chemistry.

 

Motor is one of the most popular guys in the locker room. And we've always carried 4 RB's on the roster. Wouldn't shock me to see Hines taking Taiwan's spot being a core Special Teamer who provides more on offense than Taiwan did.

[HappyDays]

I think Singletary is a fine RB but he has no special traits. That's not a RB you give a 2nd contract to, not when your cap space is as tight as ours is. He's consistent but I wish he had even league average burst. Our offense lacked explosion the past two years. In that context I can't justify paying one of the least explosive RBs in the league.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Singletary has averaged 4.7 ypc for his career (and 4.7 in 2022) and the league average in the years he has played is between 4.3 and 4.4 (trust me, but look it up if you doubt me: https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/league-average-yards-per-carry-by-running-backs-2022).  Since he has entered the league, he has always been above league average. And lest you think any RB can average these numbers, Frank Gore averaged 3.6 ypc in 2019 for the Bills (a year in which Allen had 510 yards rushing and nearly 5 ypc). Point is, the grass ain’t always greener.

 

I actually like Singletary and thought he was very underused here but I'd rather have a big bruising back, the Chiefs hit a home run with Isiah Pacheco in the 7th round. If we can pull stuff off like that it would be a huge boost to this team, We need to start hitting on these picks.

Edited March 17, 2023 by BuffaloBillsGospel2014

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not sure what you’d like me to say?… I don’t consider it a priority for a team who’s QB is Josh Allen. RB is such an interchangeable position at this stage of the game that I think the Bills would be 100% fine with what they got and a cheap veteran like Murray or a later draft pick…. As you already said, they should be looking to upgrade at WR and upfront and put RB on the back burner.

Yea… they are somewhat of a mess upfront with the Von injury, Phillips/Shaq as FAs and AJE/Basham looking like JAGs and really not much money to go around…. Awful look given the investment…. It’s why I wouldn’t at all be surprised if defense is the priority yet again this draft. 

It’s looking more and more like DT and DE early.

 

The Bills just don’t seem to have any urgency at WR. 
 

They believe in Gabe and aren’t going to move off him.

 

I’m becoming resigned to the state of this roster and their reluctance to do anything significant at WR. The Bills have no size in that group. 
 

Watching them warm up last year it was Gabe, and then everyone else looks tiny out there. 

[HappyDays]

22 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I hear you, but if Motor ends up being cheap, why not re-sign him and focus the draft on more key positions?

 

Because we're incredibly tight against the cap and still have several holes. Who is filling in for Von Miller while he recovers? Who is our MLB? Who is next in line behind Oliver and Jones? Who is first in if Diggs or Davis go down? Every one of these needs is harder to fill in the draft than a RB that can run against light boxes. We can make do with Hines (who already carries a big cap hit in his own right) and Cook and a rookie. Let our 2nd round pick from last year be the #1 RB. If he can't be, it was a bad pick. In lieu of the run game I'm hoping our plan this year is to get the RBs and Knox and Harty more involved in the quick passing game.

[transplantbillsfan]

He is. I like him.

 

But don't pay him. Cook is better. If the market dries out and he'll come back for an AAV less than $5 mil, pay him.

[HappyDays]

32 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Singletary is a above average receiver

 

Really? I think he's a well below average receiving back. He had the 3rd highest drop percentage of qualifying RBs last year at 11.5%. His acceleration is poor which means he's not a great check down option since it takes him too long to get going. For a pass-heavy offense this is in fact probably the biggest reason he isn't worth a 2nd contract.

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by HappyDays

[Arkady Renko]

I agree that he is above average and underrated.  I feel like whenever the Bills made him the feature back there was better rhythm. He also was the Bills best short yardage back towards the end of last season.  
 

That all said the Bills can’t afford to spend what he deserves and they need a large running back to compliment Cook and Hines. 

[hondo in seattle]

Dave, I'm not a Singletary hater.  But not a lover either, and I don't get the Gore comparison.  Gore was a shell of his former self when he played for the Bills.   Of course Singletary was better.  

 

If you want to make a comparison, let's try this one:

 

* In 1973, OJ averaged 6.0 ypc against defenses that lined up with one singular purpose: stop OJ.

 

* In 2022, Singletary averaged 4.6 ypc against defenses that lined up with one singular purpose: stop Josh Allen.  

 

Opponents don't scheme up ways to stop Singletary.  They don't load up the box.  They don't put a spy on him like they used to do with OJ or sometimes do for Josh.   Singletary is an offensive afterthought.  

 

I like Singletary.  He lives up to his nickname - he's a high motor guy and, by all accounts, a good teammate.  But he's not in the same league as the better backs that have blessed the Bills backfield over the years: OJ, Thurman, Shady, Cookie, Freddy, Cribbs, Marshawn...   

 

Could we do worse?  Of course.  But we can do better and have in the past.   

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by hondo in seattle

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Gore averaged 3.6 against the same teams and the chiefs’ ypc since 2019 is under 4.7. Come up with a more empirically sound argument.

See above.

gore was using a walker 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Have to agree… In a league where QB and offense rule McBeane continue to be do the opposite and put defense first…. You can add LB to that list. 
 

There is nothing more irritating to me than their strategy at WR and offensive line. It is a joke in a conference with Cincy and KC…. He’ll even Miami and NYJ.

You look at the offense and there is decent original draft investment there, until WR. 

 

Beane got the #1 WR that Whaley looked high and low for, but then he stopped.

 

Dawkins - 2nd Round

Ryan Bates - Undrafted

Mitch Morse - 2nd Round

Connor McGovern - 3rd Round

Spencer Brown - 3rd Round

Josh Allen - 1st Round

 

James Cook - 2nd Round

Nyheim Hines - 4th Round/5th Round for trade 

 

Dawson Knox - 3rd Round

Quintin Morris - Undrafted 

 

Stefon Diggs - 5th Round/1st Round for trade 

Gabe Davis - 4th Round

Deonte Harty - Undrafted

Kahlil Shakir - 5th Round

Isaiah McKenzie - 5th Round

 

It seems to be a 1st Round pick away at WR and a 2nd Round pick away on OLine to take the next step. 

 

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Have to agree… In a league where QB and offense rule McBeane continue to be do the opposite and put defense first…. You can add LB to that list. 
 

There is nothing more irritating to me than their strategy at WR and offensive line. It is a joke in a conference with Cincy and KC…. He’ll even Miami and NYJ.

It even bleeds over into podcasters and fans.  
 

“Who’s our MLB!?”

 

”Who’s our DT4”

 

What!?… How about we address WR2 and RT and deal with the fact we may not have Top 100 picks and paid players at almost every rotational position on the defense? 

[NoSaint]

33 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I love Cook, but he is small. He is legit 25 pounds less than his brother, and he was protected at georgia despite the obvious talent. The bills need another back, obviously, and my point is why not take the guy who knows the offense and who is above-average in productivity by every nfl measure assuming he’s affordable?

You want a list of a the sixth-seventh round RB rookies in the last five years who didn’t pan out? Happy to provide it. This is akin to arguing that we should wait til the 6th round to draft qbs because, you know, tom brady.

I use the Tom Brady argument all the time. But it’s a big gap between looking for your franchise qb there vs looking for a 3rd string back to use in a couple sub packages 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

It even bleeds over into podcasters and fans.  
 

“Who’s our MLB!?”

 

”Who’s our DT4”

 

What!?… How about we address WR2 and RT and deal with the fact we may not have Top 100 picks and paid players at almost every rotational position on the defense? 

Like Scott Law and I have said, the Bills don’t seem like they have any urgency at WR 2.

 

They just picked up a 5’6” WR who has 64 career catches and Beane said they’re trying to finagle McKenzie’s contract despite his disastrous showing last year. 
 

If the FO brings back Phillips and Lawson on vet minimum deals, that’s $2.4M less in cap space and Beane said they were at $9M free today, with some provisioned for rookies and IR.

 

So it’s looking like Dodson is your MLB going into the draft, or they’ll have to dip into the restructure pot again. 
 

You could trade Oliver, but then you would have to take some of that $10M and re-sign Phillips or someone else, unless you’re drafting two DTs. 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Like Scott Law and I have said, the Bills don’t seem like they have any urgency at WR 2.

 

They just picked up a 5’6” WR who has 64 career catches and Beane said they’re trying to finagle McKenzie’s contract despite his disastrous showing last year. 
 

If the FO brings back Phillips and Lawson on vet minimum deals, that’s $2.4M less in cap space and Beane said they were at $9M free today, with some provisioned for rookies and IR.

 

So it’s looking like Dodson is your MLB going into the draft, or they’ll have to dip into the restructure pot again. 
 

You could trade Oliver, but then you would have to take some of that $10M and re-sign Phillips or someone else, unless you’re drafting two DTs. 

I think Brandon is playing the patient game the long game

 

Possibly waiting for a veteran wide receiver to shake loose a Sanders type

 

That ended up being a really good deal for us even though Sanders didn’t maintain his level of play through the whole season, he pushed Gabe Davis and we had four quality wide receivers on the field at all times

 

Let’s keep in mind. The number one is already here. Gabe Davis is an extremely good number three they can find another guy and I believe that they will. I think that our mighty Smurf is the McKitrick replacement.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You know if they go into draft day as is at MLB they are spending a 1st or 2nd round pick there…. Followed by defensive line….. meanwhile let’s trust Gabe for a 4th straight year to finally figure it out.😅

They’re not going to take a creative avenue here and package players and picks to try and get impact.

 

If you could ship Gabe and a 3rd for Hopkins, but they need money relief. I don’t like the Jeudy idea as much, but he’d take #27 straight up or some combination. 
 

As fans, it’s hard to know who is available? 

 

They believe in Draft - Develop and Retain so they can’t afford eating dead cap in trades. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think Brandon is playing the patient game the long game

 

Possibly waiting for a veteran wide receiver to shake loose a Sanders type

 

That ended up being a really good deal for us even though Sanders didn’t maintain his level of play through the whole season, he pushed Gabe Davis and we had four quality wide receivers on the field at all times

 

Let’s keep in mind. The number one is already here. Gabe Davis is an extremely good number three they can find another guy and I believe that they will. I think that our mighty Smurf is the McKitrick replacement.

Good post.

 

Yeah you’re right, Beane said it today in words and tone, they’re kind of stuck. They’ve done all they can to keep the band together that has won 3-Straight AFC East Titles. 

 

There seems to be a couple more restructure levers to pull, but Beane sounded like reluctant to that and I would be too.

 

He said they’re tight next year as well.