La'el Collins worth a look?

[BarleyNY]

Just now, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Beane is a very candid GM. He has no problem expressing frustration with players, none.

 

Can we lay this dumb trope to rest? I would expect him to express dissatisfaction in a way that's not impolite or personal ... if that's what he actually meant. He's done it many times before. 

 

When he expresses satisfaction in a very specific way, it's because it is what he means. He'd have had no problems saying something along the lines of, "He knows he's not playing at a level that we expect. He's very aware of this and he's not happy himself with how last season went. We expect him to work hard and improve. We know he's a hard worker and should improve. But we do expect yadda yadda yadda."

 

He's done this many times. If dissatisfied, I'd expect him to say something along those lines. The fact that he was very specific in his praise tells me and should tell everyone that he means it.

 

I am not saying that Beane wasn’t genuine in this case. But every time he doesn’t rip a rostered player to shreds (even when they deserve it) we get the idiotic “Beane has his back!” posts. GMs who have a clue don’t ever do that. About the worst you ever get is what we saw here: He’s a hard worker, great teammate, etc. He fell a bit short this year but he’s got plenty of room to improve and we expect to see that. 

 

The “meat on the bone” schtick is literally the lower bound for GM comments on players like Brown. I’m not saying that isn’t fair in this case, just that you wouldn’t hear worse regardless of circumstance. 

[ndirish1978]

8 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Unless he playing guard I don’t think so. You figure Dawkins, Morse, and Brown are locked in their spots. They just gave the guard from Dallas 7 million. So he’s going to be a starter. Only one spot open. Is he beating out Bates? I doubt it 

 

Brown should in no way should be a lock, he was terrible last year and should not be a starter on this team.

[AuntieEm]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think his best days are definitely behind him but if he is willing to take fringe starter money and have a genuine camp battle with Spencer for the job he would satisfy the "proper competition brief".

 

   Add that he still will be looking to add a ring to his career and it maybe a good fit if the sides can agree on a fair deal. Collins may want a shorter deal but one with a possible sb win could be just what he wants.

[FireChans]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think his best days are definitely behind him but if he is willing to take fringe starter money and have a genuine camp battle with Spencer for the job he would satisfy the "proper competition brief".

Best days behind him? He’s 29. 

[somnus00]

If I could build an OT in a lab, he would look like Spencer Brown. The dude is absolutely elite in measurables and he's one of the top 20 athletes in the entire NFL (not hyperbole). He's is just raw.

 

I'd bet Beane is nervous about Brown being another Wyatt Teller, as I am. But we do need to push his development by bringing in another starting caliber OT.

[MJS]

6 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Not in fans eyes. But if you've listened to Brandon Beane at all Postseason - he's made it pretty clear he thinks not having a Training Camp and injuries were the cause of his not performing well last season. He seems to have full faith in him.

That's how he speaks about his players.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I am not saying that Beane wasn’t genuine in this case. But every time he doesn’t rip a rostered player to shreds (even when they deserve it) we get the idiotic “Beane has his back!” posts. GMs who have a clue don’t ever do that. About the worst you ever get is what we saw here: He’s a hard worker, great teammate, etc. He fell a bit short this year but he’s got plenty of room to improve and we expect to see that. 

 

The “meat on the bone” schtick is literally the lower bound for GM comments on players like Brown. I’m not saying that isn’t fair in this case, just that you wouldn’t hear worse regardless of circumstance. 

 

 

I see. Fair enough. I just get sick of the "He said something nice about the guy so it must be lies because the player is my favorite scapegoat," crowd.

 

Having said that, I'd disagree with you in your characterization of what Beane said. The positives weren't just great teammate, hard worker stuff. They were specific. And the negatives weren't fell a bit short this year but room to improve, either. 

 

Here's the quotation:

 

“We honestly didn’t think that we would play him game one,” General Manager Brandon Beane said. “He got himself there, but we got there without all the reps that you need as a veteran. Like, I wouldn’t have wanted to put Dion Dawkins out there without all those reps. So what I saw in Spencer is a guy, the second half the season that played better than the first half of the season.

 

“I got a lot of confidence in him. He’s maturing, he’s understanding the league, a lot different type of pass rusher he’s having to block here than what he saw at Northern Iowa. So, I would ask people that are critical of him – give him some due. I thought Spencer was showing an arrow up, but again, we’re not going to give him a roster spot. We’re going to bring in competition, the best we can and I expect him to answer the bell.”

 

That's more positive than you're implying. It's saying not just that we think a lot of his problems were injury- and time-off-related, but that he improved over the season and specifics in how.

 

And the only negative, really was that his spot isn't guaranteed in any way, we'll bring in competition.

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Thurman#1

[BillsShredder83]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Not in fans eyes. But if you've listened to Brandon Beane at all Postseason - he's made it pretty clear he thinks not having a Training Camp and injuries were the cause of his not performing well last season. He seems to have full faith in him.

Either hes towing the company line and seeking an upgrade, or its very possibly a valid excuse.  Back injury for a regular 300lb man trying to work in a kitchen would be brutal enough.  Back injury for 300lb dude doing a bunch of fast twitch explosive/heavy movements sounds like a living nightmare. 

 

I dunno, we're not there to see, but it wouldnt shock me if dude was eating vicodin like tiktacks just to limp through the season.  I wouldnt be on board with dropping big $$ on a RT in free agency, but Lael Collins on a one year seems like the type of 1 yr deal we should be looking for, or if a baller T falls in the draft you pull the trigger.

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, somnus00 said:

If I could build an OT in a lab, he would look like Spencer Brown. The dude is absolutely elite in measurables and he's one of the top 20 athletes in the entire NFL (not hyperbole). He's is just raw.

 

I'd bet Beane is nervous about Brown being another Wyatt Teller, as I am. But we do need to push his development by bringing in another starting caliber OT.

Super level and measured response here.

 

Not sure if you're new to the board, but around here we have hall of famers or grocery baggers. Please make sure to be in a frenzy of irrational emotion or black out drunk before posting in the future. Thaaaaaaaaanks

[BBFL]

Does Cinci really just get rid of this guy though? Contract is very reasonable. Just walked in the door last year and played extremely well in Dallas as a Guard. He has maneuverability on the line…

Played both tackle and guard above average. 

[somnus00]

10 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Super level and measured response here.

 

Not sure if you're new to the board, but around here we have hall of famers or grocery baggers. Please make sure to be in a frenzy of irrational emotion or black out drunk before posting in the future. Thaaaaaaaaanks

Well now someone tells me. I feel so stupid right now. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Best days behind him? He’s 29. 

 

Doesn't matter. Since the injury he has been a shadow of the player he was. He lost his job on the Cowboys line and we are now talking about the Bengals potentially moving on after 1 year. 

[Airseven]

11 hours ago, GreggTX said:

We've done nothing to improve one of the worst OL's in the NFL so far. Any quality OL would be huge at this point. We're desperate.

 

It's shocking to think that acquiring McGovern (essentially another Bates) could be their answer at OL. Dumpster diving for a few more one-year vets and a mid-round draft pick would be absolutely unconscionable at this point.

[starrymessenger]

55 minutes ago, BBFL said:

Does Cinci really just get rid of this guy though? Contract is very reasonable. Just walked in the door last year and played extremely well in Dallas as a Guard. He has maneuverability on the line…

Played both tackle and guard above average. 

He was terrible in pass pro last year. His pass blocking grade was like 8 points lower than Spencer Brown's who was himself a turnstile in protecting Josh.

[BBFL]

21 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

He was terrible in pass pro last year. His pass blocking grade was like 8 points lower than Spencer Brown's who was himself a turnstile in protecting Josh.

I get that. Hence the reference to his Dallas days and not last year. The likelihood, if any, is a post June cut. Do we wait that long to bring in another rotational player to compete? Tough question. Point I was making is Brown is now the LT. Who knows what you get at their LG or RT play from here on out. Collins at least had success playing guard next to Tyron Smith. Maybe they plug him there again and Brown elevates his play?

Edited March 16, 2023 by BBFL

[BarleyNY]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I see. Fair enough. I just get sick of the "He said something nice about the guy so it must be lies because the player is my favorite scapegoat," crowd.

 

Having said that, I'd disagree with you in your characterization of what Beane said. The positives weren't just great teammate, hard worker stuff. They were specific. And the negatives weren't fell a bit short this year but room to improve, either. 

 

Here's the quotation:

 

“We honestly didn’t think that we would play him game one,” General Manager Brandon Beane said. “He got himself there, but we got there without all the reps that you need as a veteran. Like, I wouldn’t have wanted to put Dion Dawkins out there without all those reps. So what I saw in Spencer is a guy, the second half the season that played better than the first half of the season.

 

“I got a lot of confidence in him. He’s maturing, he’s understanding the league, a lot different type of pass rusher he’s having to block here than what he saw at Northern Iowa. So, I would ask people that are critical of him – give him some due. I thought Spencer was showing an arrow up, but again, we’re not going to give him a roster spot. We’re going to bring in competition, the best we can and I expect him to answer the bell.”

 

That's more positive than you're implying. It's saying not just that we think a lot of his problems were injury- and time-off-related, but that he improved over the season and specifics in how.

 

And the only negative, really was that his spot isn't guaranteed in any way, we'll bring in competition.

 

 

 

 

Brown has not played well overall. At best he’s been very inconsistent. He was physically gifted, but raw two seasons ago when we drafted him. And he looked physically gifted but raw at the end of last season. Coming into the league so raw and dealing with injuries that derailed his development are valid reasons for delay in his progress. But there is no guarantee that he ever develops. I hope that he does - and soon. But I’m also glad that Beane said he is bringing in competition and that his roster spot isn’t guaranteed. He let Brown know that he has to step up or he won’t be in the Bills plans moving forward. 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Brown has not played well overall. At best he’s been very inconsistent. He was physically gifted, but raw two seasons ago when we drafted him. And he looked physically gifted but raw at the end of last season. Coming into the league so raw and dealing with injuries that derailed his development are valid reasons for delay in his progress. But there is no guarantee that he ever develops. I hope that he does - and soon. But I’m also glad that Beane said he is bringing in competition and that his roster spot isn’t guaranteed. He let Brown know that he has to step up or he won’t be in the Bills plans moving forward. 

 

We all hope Brown develops..  but there seems a lot of people here very confident that he is going too.. based on what we saw last year, Im not sure what this confidence is based on...

 

Yes, Beane said he is going to bring in competition.. but I hope this is more than some Quessenberry type that he finds at Vet minimum in two weeks time that no one else has claimed..

 

The position needs to be upgraded in 2023..  either through Brown improving his play or by bringing in a better player...

 

If the position is Status Quo in 2023 then I think we have big problems improving the O ...

[aristocrat]

is he even gonna play next year? 

[NewEra]

15 hours ago, GreggTX said:

We've done nothing to improve one of the worst OL's in the NFL so far. Any quality OL would be huge at this point. We're desperate.

 

41 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

IIRC, Collins can also bump inside to guard if Brown beats him out at RT or if Morse gets injured and Bates needs to move to center. 

 

 

There's no way Brown could beat him out unless Collins gets injured or dies.

 

 

McGovern = nothing.  👌 

 

Literally nothing?

[QLBillsFan]

17 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

It will be ok to find an upgrade from Brown…

I am thinking that OT is #1 or #2 priority with LB. If no additional starters at those positions come from FA. I’ve been a huge SB fan but he actually fell off a bit in year 2. How much does AK take on with this OL? We need more production and development from that position group. I’ll take Jones or Harrison at # 1 if they are on the board. I’m past, let’s bring in competition for Spencer.