Beane again showing why he is a top GM

[NewEra]

33 minutes ago, mrags said:

The argument I can get behind for sure. He’s going to be good imo. But that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen immediately. And like I said, we know the way McD doesn’t like/trust rookies to come in and get significant playing time right away. At least not on the offensive side of the ball. 
 

shakir

cook

hodgins

 

these guys all had ability that we could all see in limited time in camp and pre season. They all looked like they should be playing and never got The time they should have. Hell, they resigned an old man in John Brown and Beasley to come in before they gave Shakir a legit shot. That says something. 

Fair point regarding rookies….  But singling out offensive rookies is meh Imo.  
 

I don’t think Kincaid should be compared to a 5th and a 7th rd WRs or a 2nd rd RB that had never been a RB1.  
 

The shakir sitch was 💯 befuddling.  It drove me crazy for sure. Dunno if McD/Dorsey felt some sort of an allegiance to Dirty?  If shakir was making errors in practice?  Missed assignments and such 🤷🏻‍♂️.  But it was frustrating to watch unfold.  But again, you’re talking about a 5th rd pick…. Not a 1st rd pick that we traded up for. 
 

I thought cook played about as much as I thought he would his rookie year.  I hope he gets 75% of the carries this year, but I expect it to be around 50-60%.  I expect Harris to get the rock when we have a lead in the 4th as well as the majority of the RZ carries 

 

Hodgins had no chance to play his rookie year.  Stuck behind Diggs, sanders, Beasley, Davis and dirty.  

Spencer Brown started the majority of his rookie year as a 3rd rd pick. Cody Ford did as well.  
 

Josh Allen is the only 1st rd pick used on O other than Kincaid.  

Kincaid is going to be one of the focal points of this offense going forward.  I have no doubt.  Whether or not Dorsey can implement the proper scheme to achieve success is a different story, but I think he’ll be fine.  
 

Agree to disagree.  It’s the offseason and this is the stuff that we discuss.  I think it’s clear that we’ve improved our offense a great deal.  Major improvements on the IOL and TE/Slot.  I get why some don’t think Harty and Sherfield are upgrades.  Past stats say they are about equivalent to what we’ve had.  I just don’t agree with past stats having anything to do with their future on this team.  Harty >> McKenzie.  Sherfield >>> Kumerow imo.  Both can play inside and out.  Both can stretch the field and have very good RAC ability.  

 

Nothing can really be proven until the season plays out.  In 2021, we thought we upgraded when we went from Brown to Sanders. Stats show the proof that you’re looking for, but reality was, we he wasn’t really an upgrade at all.  
 

 

[mrags]

17 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Fair point regarding rookies….  But singling out offensive rookies is meh Imo.  
 

I don’t think Kincaid should be compared to a 5th and a 7th rd WRs or a 2nd rd RB that had never been a RB1.  
 

The shakir sitch was 💯 befuddling.  It drove me crazy for sure. Dunno if McD/Dorsey felt some sort of an allegiance to Dirty?  If shakir was making errors in practice?  Missed assignments and such 🤷🏻‍♂️.  But it was frustrating to watch unfold.  But again, you’re talking about a 5th rd pick…. Not a 1st rd pick that we traded up for. 
 

I thought cook played about as much as I thought he would his rookie year.  I hope he gets 75% of the carries this year, but I expect it to be around 50-60%.  I expect Harris to get the rock when we have a lead in the 4th as well as the majority of the RZ carries 

 

Hodgins had no chance to play his rookie year.  Stuck behind Diggs, sanders, Beasley, Davis and dirty.  

Spencer Brown started the majority of his rookie year as a 3rd rd pick. Cody Ford did as well.  
 

Josh Allen is the only 1st rd pick used on O other than Kincaid.  

Kincaid is going to be one of the focal points of this offense going forward.  I have no doubt.  Whether or not Dorsey can implement the proper scheme to achieve success is a different story, but I think he’ll be fine.  
 

Agree to disagree.  It’s the offseason and this is the stuff that we discuss.  I think it’s clear that we’ve improved our offense a great deal.  Major improvements on the IOL and TE/Slot.  I get why some don’t think Harty and Sherfield are upgrades.  Past stats say they are about equivalent to what we’ve had.  I just don’t agree with past stats having anything to do with their future on this team.  Harty >> McKenzie.  Sherfield >>> Kumerow imo.  Both can play inside and out.  Both can stretch the field and have very good RAC ability.  

 

Nothing can really be proven until the season plays out.  In 2021, we thought we upgraded when we went from Brown to Sanders. Stats show the proof that you’re looking for, but reality was, we he wasn’t really an upgrade at all.  
 

 

Pretty much agree with most here. Just stating that what we currently have is an unknown. There’s no proof that we’ve upgraded at WR. Like I said, I truly believe we’ve upgraded as well, saying it as an opinion is fine, stating it like it’s fact is just not true though. 
 

I 100% think Sherfield is an upgrade over Kumerow. But to what extent will they use him? We all thought Kumerow showed promise and should get more time on the field in the past and he has like 4 catches in his career as a Bill. What proof is there that we’ll actually use Sherfield any different?

 

Im not a fan of Harty. I think he’s too small for the game/position. I don’t care how fast he is, agile he is, quick he is, etc. the guy has historically been unavailable due to injury at a rate of 6+ games a year. His size and body has proven he’s too small for the game. You say he can play outside? I don’t see that happening ever on this team. Nor would I want a guy that’s 5’9” on the outside. He will be an inside receiver on this team. And let’s be real, anytime he’s on the field probably means Kincaid is not and I don’t like that one bit. 
 

Kincaid is another story. Let’s hope he performs. Let’s hope Dorsey has something in mind for him. Let’s hope he and Josh get on the same page. Let’s hope he can take the steps needed to be a player in the NFL. I hope he will and think it’ll happen. But some people thought Ryan Leaf was better than Payton Manning. There’s no guarantee that Kincaid will work out. 
 

again, I think we’ve upgraded at the pass catching position overall. But there’s no evidence to support the statement that we’ve upgraded at WR. 

[NewEra]

Even if there was evidence (stats is the only thing you can go by) the evidence isn’t proof of anything either.  
 

Just seems like a waste of time arguing about proof and evidence.   No team in the league has proof that they’ve upgraded until they see the result on the field.  

 

adding and upgrading talent can only go as far as the coaches scheme.  That’s not something anyone can prove in the offseason.  

 

 

[Big Blitz]

6 minutes ago, mrags said:

Pretty much agree with most here. Just stating that what we currently have is an unknown. There’s no proof that we’ve upgraded at WR. Like I said, I truly believe we’ve upgraded as well, saying it as an opinion is fine, stating it like it’s fact is just not true though. 
 

I 100% think Sherfield is an upgrade over Kumerow. But to what extent will they use him? We all thought Kumerow showed promise and should get more time on the field in the past and he has like 4 catches in his career as a Bill. What proof is there that we’ll actually use Sherfield any different?

 

Im not a fan of Harty. I think he’s too small for the game/position. I don’t care how fast he is, agile he is, quick he is, etc. the guy has historically been unavailable due to injury at a rate of 6+ games a year. His size and body has proven he’s too small for the game. You say he can play outside? I don’t see that happening ever on this team. Nor would I want a guy that’s 5’9” on the outside. He will be an inside receiver on this team. And let’s be real, anytime he’s on the field probably means Kincaid is not and I don’t like that one bit. 
 

Kincaid is another story. Let’s hope he performs. Let’s hope Dorsey has something in mind for him. Let’s hope he and Josh get on the same page. Let’s hope he can take the steps needed to be a player in the NFL. I hope he will and think it’ll happen. But some people thought Ryan Leaf was better than Payton Manning. There’s no guarantee that Kincaid will work out. 
 

again, I think we’ve upgraded at the pass catching position overall. But there’s no evidence to support the statement that we’ve upgraded at WR. 

 

We have better depth at WR compared to last year but that isn’t saying much.  
 

Davis and Shakir a year older.  
 

We still don’t have an established slot WR - I think it’s going to be Shakir and Harty will be the gadget guy.  
 

 

Diggs

Davis 

Shakir 

Sherfield 

Harty 

Shorter 

 

I’m not counting the TEs.  

 

I think this is now the “weakest” group on the team.  Still decent but there are probably 15-20 teams with a better group.  

 

Hopefully an improved Oline makes everyone better.   
 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Even if there was evidence (stats is the only thing you can go by) the evidence isn’t proof of anything either.  
 

Just seems like a waste of time arguing about proof and evidence.   No team in the league has proof that they’ve upgraded until they see the result on the field.  

 

adding and upgrading talent can only go as far as the coaches scheme.  That’s not something anyone can prove in the offseason.  

 

 

 

Bingo.

[Royale with Cheese]

14 minutes ago, mrags said:

Pretty much agree with most here. Just stating that what we currently have is an unknown. There’s no proof that we’ve upgraded at WR. Like I said, I truly believe we’ve upgraded as well, saying it as an opinion is fine, stating it like it’s fact is just not true though. 
 

I 100% think Sherfield is an upgrade over Kumerow. But to what extent will they use him? We all thought Kumerow showed promise and should get more time on the field in the past and he has like 4 catches in his career as a Bill. What proof is there that we’ll actually use Sherfield any different?

 

Im not a fan of Harty. I think he’s too small for the game/position. I don’t care how fast he is, agile he is, quick he is, etc. the guy has historically been unavailable due to injury at a rate of 6+ games a year. His size and body has proven he’s too small for the game. You say he can play outside? I don’t see that happening ever on this team. Nor would I want a guy that’s 5’9” on the outside. He will be an inside receiver on this team. And let’s be real, anytime he’s on the field probably means Kincaid is not and I don’t like that one bit. 
 

Kincaid is another story. Let’s hope he performs. Let’s hope Dorsey has something in mind for him. Let’s hope he and Josh get on the same page. Let’s hope he can take the steps needed to be a player in the NFL. I hope he will and think it’ll happen. But some people thought Ryan Leaf was better than Payton Manning. There’s no guarantee that Kincaid will work out. 
 

again, I think we’ve upgraded at the pass catching position overall. But there’s no evidence to support the statement that we’ve upgraded at WR. 

 

I don't see why Harty and Kincaid can't be on the field at the same time.

Aaron Hernandez, Gronk and Edleman were always on the field together.  

 

[mrags]

14 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Even if there was evidence (stats is the only thing you can go by) the evidence isn’t proof of anything either.  
 

Just seems like a waste of time arguing about proof and evidence.   No team in the league has proof that they’ve upgraded until they see the result on the field.  

 

adding and upgrading talent can only go as far as the coaches scheme.  That’s not something anyone can prove in the offseason.  

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Bingo.

this statement proves there’s no guarantee we’ve upgraded either. For the 100th or so time. I’ve stated that I believe we have upgraded. But there is no guarantee we have. People are talking about it like it’s a sure thing we e upgraded when it’s just not accurate. Just like you said, there’s no way to prove we haven’t, I say there’s no way to prove we have. But what are we all here for? Discussing our team and arguing our opinions. 

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't see why Harty and Kincaid can't be on the field at the same time.

Aaron Hernandez, Gronk and Edleman were always on the field together.  

 

Not saying they can’t be. But only so many players can be in the field at once. Who you taking off the field so that Harty can be there? 
 

diggs

davis

kincaid

Knox

any of our 4 RBs? 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

this statement proves there’s no guarantee we’ve upgraded either. For the 100th or so time. I’ve stated that I believe we have upgraded. But there is no guarantee we have. People are talking about it like it’s a sure thing we e upgraded when it’s just not accurate. Just like you said, there’s no way to prove we haven’t, I say there’s no way to prove we have. But what are we all here for? Discussing our team and arguing our opinions. 

 

Yes, you're right there is no guarantee in anything.  But if you know that, why do you always argue with the word "guarantee?"

You know it's not possible because we can't prove it but you always use it.  

[buffblue]

28 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

We have better depth at WR compared to last year but that isn’t saying much.  
 

Davis and Shakir a year older.  
 

We still don’t have an established slot WR - I think it’s going to be Shakir and Harty will be the gadget guy.  
 

 

Diggs

Davis 

Shakir 

Sherfield 

Harty 

Shorter 

 

I’m not counting the TEs.  

 

I think this is now the “weakest” group on the team.  Still decent but there are probably 15-20 teams with a better group.  

 

Hopefully an improved Oline makes everyone better.   
 

Agreed. The scary part for me is imagining a situation where Diggs is unavailable for anything longer than a couple of weeks. We already know that Davis is an iffy #2 at best. I don't want to think about the consequences of needing him to slot up to be our #1 guy. This is why although I have some reservations I am still in favor of pursuing Hopkins (salary permitting of course).

Edited June 6, 2023 by buffblue

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

this statement proves there’s no guarantee we’ve upgraded either. For the 100th or so time. I’ve stated that I believe we have upgraded. But there is no guarantee we have. People are talking about it like it’s a sure thing we e upgraded when it’s just not accurate. Just like you said, there’s no way to prove we haven’t, I say there’s no way to prove we have. But what are we all here for? Discussing our team and arguing our opinions. 

Not saying they can’t be. But only so many players can be in the field at once. Who you taking off the field so that Harty can be there? 
 

diggs

davis

kincaid

Knox

any of our 4 RBs? 

 

25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Even if there was evidence (stats is the only thing you can go by) the evidence isn’t proof of anything either.  
 

Just seems like a waste of time arguing about proof and evidence.   No team in the league has proof that they’ve upgraded until they see the result on the field.  

 

adding and upgrading talent can only go as far as the coaches scheme.  That’s not something anyone can prove in the offseason.  

 

 

To me, it just proves that it’s a waste of time debating about it on a message board in the offseason.  There is no “proof/evidence” with regards to offseason signings.  Past stats don’t “prove” anything.   There’s literally no way to prove any off season move will be a success or not until they start playing game. 
 

so asking for proof is a waste of time as it’s impossible.  
 

but it’s a message board, so we talk about how we think these moves will impact the team.  
 

 

[mrags]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yes, you're right there is no guarantee in anything.  But if you know that, why do you always argue with the word "guarantee?"

You know it's not possible because we can't prove it but you always use it.  

Same reason I guess that so many of you say things as fact when they aren’t fact. You guys stop doing that and I’ll stop with my Shenanigans, deal?

[Logic]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

It’s not limited to rookies. What happened with Hines was borderline criminal. 
 

Huge disconnect between Beane/McDermott/Dorsey. 
 

Beane drafts/acquires players who end up collecting dust on the sidelines. 
 

Hopefully, they’ve sorted this out. 

This is my number one concern about Dorsey: Making proper usage of his offensive personnel in the way that best highlights their skillset. And the disconnect you mentioned between Beane and Dorsey was startling.

All offseason we heard about the desire for a pass-catching back. Beane spent premium draft capital on one and then traded for another. Dorsey then completely failed to use Cook meaningfully in that role, and completely failed to use Hines AT ALL.

For a team that desperately needed more production in the short passing game and more explosiveness and offensive variety, to underuse/misuse both players -- Hines, in particular -- was head-scratching and infuriating.

He was a rookie play-caller, so I'll give him a pass for now. I hope, for the Bills' sake, that his personnel deployment improves greatly, and that his apparent disconnect with Beane got hashed out in the offseason.

[mrags]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

To me, it just proves that it’s a waste of time debating about it on a message board in the offseason.  There is no “proof/evidence” with regards to offseason signings.  Past stats don’t “prove” anything.   There’s literally no way to prove any off season move will be a success or not until they start playing game. 
 

so asking for proof is a waste of time as it’s impossible.  
 

but it’s a message board, so we talk about how we think these moves will impact the team.  
 

 

And that’s where I’m at. I guess I’ll discuss how the lives at WR won’t impact the team positively in almost any way from last season. 
 

again, excluding Kincaid. Because my initial argument earlier was that we upgraded at the TE position and did not at the WR position. 
 

so back to our regularly scheduled bickering back and forth between some of us that don’t wear rose colored glasses everywhere and some of us that do. 
 

and I’m not pointing you out NE. Some people here don’t think as logically as you do. 

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

This is my number one concern about Dorsey: Making proper usage of his offensive personnel in the way that best highlights their skillset. And the disconnect you mentioned between Beane and Dorsey was startling.

All offseason we heard about the desire for a pass-catching back. Beane spent premium draft capital on one and then traded for another. Dorsey then completely failed to use Cook meaningfully in that role, and completely failed to use Hines AT ALL.

For a team that desperately needed more production in the short passing game and more explosiveness and offensive variety, to underuse/misuse both players -- Hines, in particular -- was head-scratching and infuriating.

He was a rookie play-caller, so I'll give him a pass for now. I hope, for the Bills' sake, that his personnel deployment improves greatly, and that his apparent disconnect with Beane got hashed out in the offseason.

Don’t forget the McKinnon debacle last free agency. It was going all the way back in the beginning of the off-season they were looking for a pass catching RB. Would have thought they used them more. 

[Royale with Cheese]

35 minutes ago, mrags said:

Same reason I guess that so many of you say things as fact when they aren’t fact. You guys stop doing that and I’ll stop with my Shenanigans, deal?

 

I'm not going to speak on others behalf.

 

I don't say facts unless they are legitimate facts and not opinions.  ,

 

There's two ways of looking at opinions on pretty much any subject in life...glass half full or half empty.  I'm not a pessimist in general.

[Eastport bills]

As a lifelong Bills lover, I have questioned Beane’s personnel decisions previously,but after seeing his 180 degree strategy reversal at a time when this team is primed to win championships, every fan should realize this guy is going for it. From bringing in the tackle from Miami to light a fire under Brown, (a talented underachiever), to signing Murray( an established big, bruiser for short yardage),  to signing Ford to enhance our rotation on run defense, to bringing in Miller’s buddy, Floyd, a big time edge rusher to create a QB nightmare on both sides of our D-line with Rousseau and Von, Beane has filled needs with quality talent. All the above, accomplished with no cap space entering the off season. No matter what happens, this is a GM that we can support going forward.

[mrags]

48 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm not going to speak on others behalf.

 

I don't say facts unless they are legitimate facts and not opinions.  ,

 

There's two ways of looking at opinions on pretty much any subject in life...glass half full or half empty.  I'm not a pessimist in general.

And I want to be shown proof before I get all giddy about things. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

And I want to be shown proof before I get all giddy about things. 

 

We just established on the last page that this is something that can't be proven.  Now you're asking for something that we can't give.

 

The only thing we can do is predict or project.  But if someone projects good numbers, you shoot it down because you have this firm stance that no one can have a career year....because they haven't done it yet.  

 

You're asking for hindsight right now.

[mrags]

46 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We just established on the last page that this is something that can't be proven.  Now you're asking for something that we can't give.

 

The only thing we can do is predict or project.  But if someone projects good numbers, you shoot it down because you have this firm stance that no one can have a career year....because they haven't done it yet.  

 

You're asking for hindsight right now.

Im simply saying I’ll wait and see before I claim it to be true. Like @NewEra said before, we will see what happens when they start playing. Until then it’s all speculation. 
 

I guess I’ll just have to live with the factual evidence that the players that have literally never done better than the ones they are replacing. 
 

I guess you and others will have to live in fairytale land where you wish and dream something to happen. 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

As a lifelong Bills lover, I have questioned Beane’s personnel decisions previously,but after seeing his 180 degree strategy reversal at a time when this team is primed to win championships, every fan should realize this guy is going for it. From bringing in the tackle from Miami to light a fire under Brown, (a talented underachiever), to signing Murray( an established big, bruiser for short yardage),  to signing Ford to enhance our rotation on run defense, to bringing in Miller’s buddy, Floyd, a big time edge rusher to create a QB nightmare on both sides of our D-line with Rousseau and Von, Beane has filled needs with quality talent. All the above, accomplished with no cap space entering the off season. No matter what happens, this is a GM that we can support going forward.

Effort is commendable. It's a results orientated league. Has Beane done enough? Are you happy with the results?

[What a Tuel]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Effort is commendable. It's a results orientated league. Has Beane done enough? Are you happy with the results?

 

Yes, consistent playoff football, putting us in a significantly greater position for a Super Bowl Championship for years to come. 

 

The real question is why you think replacing Beane will give you better results? Why are you so sure? Who is your replacement? 

 

Grass is always greener.