D Hopkins vs Gabe Davis

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Just another example in a long line of them of what a tool this guy is.  Mind you, it has nothing to do with his football prowess, but yeah, he’s a douche.

On the Hail Murray:

“Hopkins has plans of having a chain made to commemorate the play, he revealed during his Pro Bowl Verzuz on Thursday night with L.A. Rams cornerback Jalen Ramsey, and the level of disrespect is over the top.

“I’m going to get a chain made with their three names on there and a cemetery,” he said.

He basically wants to tell White, Hyde and Poyer to rest in peace.”

The chain idea reminds me how Arizona overrates the whole Hail Murray catch.  Yes it was an unbelievable catch but in the grand scheme the win wasn’t very significant for the Cardinals as they went on a losing streak missing the playoffs.  Fans were still bragging the catch into the off-season which I thought was silly 

[C.Biscuit97]

Hopkins is the better player but some of you got so caught up in names. With injuries, suspension, and age, Hopkins is a declining player. I’d rather have him than Davis but it’s not nearly as crazy as it was 3 years ago,

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Dan in Owego said:

Davante Adams

Cooper Kupp

Justin Jefferson

Ja'Marr Chase

Deebo Samuel

 

Nope not top 5, setting aside his 20 million cap hit he is on the decline which puts him out of our discussion wholly and completely.

D Hop is a better WR than Deebo who is a hybrid WR.  But WR to WR, in terms of receiving skills, D Hop is better and just about any GM or player in the NFL would affirm that.  And I’m a big fan of Deebos too, but he isn’t as good as Hopkins at being a WR.  
 

And he is not on a decline, you just stating that doesn’t make it true.  He was as good as ever this year.  His per game averages out him at 120 catches and 1400 yards catching passes from mostly bad quarterbacks.  
 

Anytime someone says he is on the decline I immediately know they really didn’t pay attention to him this year.  He was as good as ever.
 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Mike in Horseheads]

This team needs to get younger rather than older.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Mike in Horseheads

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Hopkins is the better player but some of you got so caught up in names. With injuries, suspension, and age, Hopkins is a declining player. I’d rather have him than Davis but it’s not nearly as crazy as it was 3 years ago,

How can you look at what he did this year with scrubs and honestly say he is on the decline?  He was on pace for 120 catches and 1400 yards catching passes from Murray for a few games and scrubs the rest.  And on a bad overall team too with bad coaching.  
 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

How can you look at what he did this year with scrubs and honestly say he is on the decline?  He was on pace for 120 catches and 1400 yards catching passes from Murray for a few games and scrubs the rest.  And on a bad overall team too with bad coaching.  
 

 

 

I’ll be honest, I probably am over stating. But a few things: over 30 and declining YAC makes me nervous. Plus I think he is kinda of headache. But yes, he’s the much better player Davis. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

D Hop is a better WR than Deebo who is a hybrid WR.  But WR to WR, in terms of receiving skills, D Hop is better and just about any GM or player in the NFL would affirm that.  And I’m a big fan of Deebos too, but he isn’t as good as Hopkins at being a WR.  
 

And he is not on a decline, you just stating that doesn’t make it true.  He was as good as ever this year.  His per game averages out him at 120 catches and 1400 yards catching passes from mostly bad quarterbacks.  
 

Anytime someone says he is on the decline I immediately know they really didn’t pay attention to him this year.  He was as good as ever.
 

 

Deebo plays with bad qbs in a good system. As much as I don’t like Kyler, he would be better than the SF qbs in their system than vice Versa. JMO. 

[Breakout Squad]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Just stop, you are talking about a first ballot HOF player, one of the very best in the game for the last decade vs a below average #2.

First ballot HOF?  That’s a stretch. What has he won? 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’ll be honest, I probably am over stating. But a few things: over 30 and declining YAC makes me nervous. Plus I think he is kinda of headache. But yes, he’s the much better player Davis. 

 

 

Deebo plays with bad qbs in a good system. As much as I don’t like Kyler, he would be better than the SF qbs in their system than vice Versa. JMO. 

Deebo is a great player, love watching him play as my wife is a hard core niner fan.  But he’s not necessarily a “great” WR and many Niners fans see Aiyuk as the better pure WR when they need a play downfield.
 

He is a fantastic weapon though as he is a nightmare with YAC and also dangerous running the ball.  But he specializes in short throws where he makes plays more than a downfield threat.  He isn’t the most polished route runner and doesn’t have the most reliable hands further down field.  Don’t get me wrong, I’d love Deebo on our team, so not a knock on him.  But just comparing receiving ability, Hopkins is better.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[DCofNC]

2 minutes ago, Breakout Squad said:

First ballot HOF?  That’s a stretch. What has he won? 

He’s already 36th in all time Rec yards and 28th all time in catches, playing with mostly scrubs at QB.  He’ll likely finish his career inside the top 10 in both categories, especially if he goes to a team w a real QB. Not to mention he’s a 5 time All-pro, the guy is a first ballot HOF player.  He’s played on trash teams, not hard to see that.

[MiltonWaddams]

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

He’s already 36th in all time Rec yards and 28th all time in catches, playing with mostly scrubs at QB.  He’ll likely finish his career inside the top 10 in both categories, especially if he goes to a team w a real QB. Not to mention he’s a 5 time All-pro, the guy is a first ballot HOF player.  He’s played on trash teams, not hard to see that.

He did have Watson tossing to him for a while…that doesn’t sound right…

[Chandler#81]

So, this is floating around ‘out there’..

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

Gabe Davis in 3 full seasons has three 100 yard games.  
 

Hopkins in 1 full season and 2 half seasons the last 3 years has nine 100 yard games and would have had several more if Murray didn’t tear his ACL this year.  
 

Someone shoot this thread, put it out of its misery and bury it in the back yard to never be spoken of again.   
 

 

[HurlyBurly51]

8 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

So, this is floating around ‘out there’..

 

 

Silly season...

[JJGauna]

Just to clear here, we are comparing Josh Allen to Matt Schaub, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Hoyer, Brock Osweiler, and Tom Savage?

 

Good grief.

 

Watson first year as full time starter DHops line was 115 catches for 1,572 yards, 11 td.

 

That was 2018, not that long ago.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by JJGauna

[In Summary]

Is 2023 THE absolute year we go all in with no other options to compliment Diggs?  If not (as in we believe in an extended Superbowl window), then let Diggs and maybe Beasley be our older veterans while we use our draft capital to stock the youth pipeline.  

[Airseven]

There’s no comparison between Davis and Hopkins. Davis is a WR4 while Hopkins is still a top 8-10 WR in the league. 
 

The debate is whether upgrading from Davis to Hopkins is worth the trade compensation, salary + more cap issues, and risk of aging/slowing.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

Like the great Marv Levy once said, if you start doing what the fans want you'll be sitting with them. 

[DCofNC]

25 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

So, this is floating around ‘out there’..

 

 

I mean, I’m good w the Oliver part of it.. picks.. ehhh

[DrPJax]

      I guess I don’t  totally understand the issue.  I think the OP did a nice job of compiling all that information in the post.  But i thought we are looking at adding another stud type receiver to diversify the offense and give JOSH more weapons.  So isn’t the reason to mention Hopkins at all is to think about him as a legit #2 at this point    (And hey, i resent and resemble that crap about AARP ! So to the wise  guy that said the aarp team stuff, WAIT TILL YOU GET THERE!  LOL!  They start sending card apps out when you turn 50 so it’s going to sneak up a lot quicker than you think !).  😊

So wouldn’t the goal be to still have Gabe , but allow him to return to his #3 role so he doesn’t have to face #1 corners when teams double Diggs and roll their 1 to cover Gabe?    It’s not supposed to be an either or situation, its about ADDING weapons for Josh , and even at 31, Hopkins would be aa great addition as we need more guys on the field who can reliably catch but also make it difficult to take Diggs away as teams did. In the latter part oft the  the season…

 

       The goal is to bring in another weapon , not to subtract  Gabe , and see if he improves and then is worth a second contract., while also adding youth via the draft and let it play out.  Gabe will have to improve, as I don’t care what those year end stats say, he dropped too many balls at critical times and he killed drives.  He was too hot and cold and if that continues , he cant be relied upon regardless of his stats.  The Bills cant keep having Josh and Diggs as their only dependable talents, its a recipe for losing against good teams as it becomes easy to limit at least one of them in critical times.

I know some drops were not his fault, but he failed to make noticeable catches when the ball was dropped right where a WR has to make that type of reception.  ( deep balls that could have been scores or put us in fg range). It’s like edmunds, don’t let the stats deceive your eyes or gut feeling about things.  Stats can be deceiving, film and your eyes are believable.  Gabe has to improve his reliability or the BILLS just won’t keep him. 

         Doing great against 2-3 weaker teams and then disappearing is a sure way to lose trust from Josh, or get him hurt as he has to drop back again and teams are sending the house knowing the line is avg at best. .   Hopkins has been a legit 1  receiver and Gabe probably will just never be that so presenting all those stats , while being a GREAT job on the OP’s part, was  driven by a bias that doesn’t fit the situation the Bills are in;  they need a quality, ADDITIONAL reliable guy with an ability to create separation. Last year Gabe was too inconsistent , regardless of his year end totals .  I bet even the QP remembers more than a handful of bad , drive hampering or killing muffs by Gabe. When you watch KC, it’s the opposite as his WR’s make drive sustaining catches, and surprisingly didn’t miss HILL, who lead the league in receiving yards i believe. Gabe can be a part of a great offense , he just needs to be in a situation facing the #2 or 3 corners and adding someone like Hopkins, would  help Gabe in that way and he would be single covered much more. Then add some speed or a RAC type wr thru the draft to sustain things for the future and as insurance against injury. 

   

       We are creating cap room hopefully to add talent , not keep SUBTRACTING and staying on the current PLATEAU of divisional losses..  Having both WR’s for a year is one way to actually have a shot at the SB.  IF you didn’t see it , RODGERS gave a FA wish list to the jets, and they already signed one of the guys he asked for.(lazaar i think , so the jets are serious).   Other teams are improving and aren’t standing still ; they are close to overtaking the Bills. .  If we don’t make the right moves, it’s like being the same old Bills;  having a generational talent at QB and letting him stagnate.   We are  letting prime years starting to drift  by while  its NOW more obvious to everyone, this wr corp lacks consistent pass CATCHERS and we are lacking innovation in our passing attack.  Trends are  being set by  likely SB contenders ( KC, CINCY, MIAMI , JETS , CHARGERS,  maybe the BROWNS  too, seem able to  RUN in addition to their prime passing focus which depends on a FEW dependable  RAC capable wrs , not just one lone star like Diggs ).  GABE is still a vital cog, as your hard work proved in your post , and  I don’t get discussions advocating just letting him go or replacing him as we should be looking to add another, possibly more consistent option (see Cincy), so he can face corners he is more likely to beat, and he could probably match this years totals in yardage/ TD’s but with less attempts and being more efficient on offense.  

     

      McD needs to let his REID come out, not be afraid to change the roster and his approach  or we will be out of the playoffs as we face a very tough schedule and a very improved afc conference,  We split withe the FINS & JETS last year with head coaches less tenured than McD, and who last year had less overall talent.  That  gap will be gone, so mcd must  improve along with DORSEY, or we will very likely  take a step backward.  

Edited March 15, 2023 by DrPJax

[Starr Almighty]

4 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

A lot of posters here want ancient D Hopkins signed to be WR2, and spend draft capital on this stiff to replace Gabe Davis.

D Hop was a really good WR, but he has not played more than 10 games since 2020.

He hasn't passed 720 yards since 2020. He hasn't passed 8 TD since 2018.

It is 2023.

 

Last Year:

Hopkins had 717 yards and 3 TD on 96 targets.

Davis had 836 yards and 7 TD on 93 targets.

 

Davis had +119 yards, +4 TDs  on 3 fewer targets, on a rookie deal.

Many here swear Hopkins should be signed at 10+ million a year and a draft pick though.

How does that make any sense???

 

It doesn't.

 

It has also become popular here to knock down Gabe Davis and blame him for the Bills offensive struggles.

 

Nevermind the sub-par OL play, or that the slot WR position was a mess all season.

Davis and Diggs looked better with a solid slot WR like Beasley.

 

A lot of TSW wanted Beasley out, and you got your wish.

How did that work out for you?

It didn't.

 

Beasley type slot WR are available (Berrios/ Ritchie/ draft), but don't point that out here.

Beane missed on Crowder, so Ritchie and Berrios would suck too according to TSW.

 

Ignore that the OC was new to the position or that the TE and RBs were forgotten for major stretches of the season.

Forget developing Cook, or using Hines.

Go get Ekeler and his 127 targets last year... that is the answer....

 

Run game? What is that?, we have Allen, chuck it up where a guy looks open.

That was often Davis downfield, as seen by yards per target.

The catch % reflects it, but TSW won't admit it. Much like D Hopkins in his first 5 years.

 

48/ 836/ 7 TD apparently is bad now for a WR #2.

A lot of teams and fans would love that production from a #2 WR.

That was top 35% WR production in the league for ALL WR.

 

When looking at all WR with 50+ targets Davis scored top 1/3 in a lot of categories.

But no: 52% catch rate last year = sucks.

It was a bad stat for certain, but how many of those balls were actually catchable?

 

TSW thinks Gabe Davis stinks. Then again I've recently seen TSW attack Tre White recently too.

 

So replace Davis with D Hopkins huh?

A WR that did less with more opportunities, costs more and is ancient?

Smart team building there.

 

Maybe we should chill out a bit as fans.

 

Did you know Deandre Hopkins never had a catch % higher than 60% for his first 5 seasons?!

 

Hopkins catch % was 57.1%/ 59.8%/ 57.8%/ 51.7%/ 55.2% over his first 5 seasons.

 

Gabe Davis is 56.5%/ 55.6%/ 52.6% as a #2, but he 'stinks'.

 

It took 4 seasons as WR #1 for Hopkins to exceed 60% catch %

but WR don't improve their catch % per TSW.

 

Many here think Buffalo should trade for an older version of the guy we already have, is less productive, and costs more

 

Brilliant.

You are aware DHop missed the 1st 6 games right?