Conner McGovern to Bills

[John from Riverside]

  On 3/14/2023 at 9:15 AM, GreggTX said:

6 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

He was a good pass blocker in Dallas

 

He was an average pass blocker in Dallas and a terrible run blocker. I pray we don't have to play him. I'll say this for him however. He's no worse than Bates. If he's a starter along with Morse and Brown, we will again have a bottom 6 OL. I guess this comes from having a defensive HC. OBD just doesn't see any value in a good OL apparently. Both McGovern and Bates should be backups.

 

 

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I’d like to know where you’re getting your statistical data that he was an average pass blocker
 

There’s been evidence presented to the contrary of that I just like to know where you’re getting yours

  On 3/14/2023 at 2:54 AM, Einstein said:

 

There are football players who say the earth is flat. I’m hardly going to take one random players opinion over the 32 NFL teams (including the Bills) who pay PFF for their service.

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That’s interesting which football players say that the Earth is flat

[Matt_In_NH]

so future TBD whipping boy?

[GimmeSomeProcess]

  On 3/14/2023 at 9:15 AM, GreggTX said:

6 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

He was a good pass blocker in Dallas

 

He was an average pass blocker in Dallas and a terrible run blocker. I pray we don't have to play him. I'll say this for him however. He's no worse than Bates. If he's a starter along with Morse and Brown, we will again have a bottom 6 OL. I guess this comes from having a defensive HC. OBD just doesn't see any value in a good OL apparently. Both McGovern and Bates should be backups.

 

 

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He was not an average pass blocked. This is completely false, your opinion isn’t fact. In 900 snaps he allowed 23 pressures and had 1 penalty. He was extremely consistent in pass pro and that’s exactly what we need. 

[GolfandBills]

  On 3/14/2023 at 10:59 AM, Matt_In_NH said:

so future TBD whipping boy?

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People on here would complain if they were hung with a new rope 

[Royale with Cheese]

  On 3/14/2023 at 5:21 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean Erik likes almost every move the Bills make. He is a massive homer. I bet there is a puff video last year of Roger Saffold blowing people up in the run game. 

 

McGovern is a better get than Saffold though. He is more solid starter than the lock it down guard I'd have hoped for but they need to prioritise protecting Josh Allen and McGovern has a good anchor in pass pro. 

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Would you feel better if we brought in competition for Bates or Brown?

[Solomon Grundy]

Meanwhile.... Chiefs sign Jawaan Taylor

[H2o]

  On 3/14/2023 at 11:09 AM, Solomon Grundy said:

Meanwhile.... Chiefs sign Jawaan Taylor

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To play LT, when he's been a RT his entire life. 

[Royale with Cheese]

  On 3/14/2023 at 3:55 AM, hondo in seattle said:

 

 

We've heard players say that the grades they get from their position coaches are often different than the grades they get from PFF.   Teams may have subscriptions to Sports Illustrated, that doesn't mean they agree with every opinion it puts out.  Same with PFF.

 

I really doubt that Beans trusts PFF more than his own pro scouts.   I think the main reason the Bills use PFF is for negotiations when the PFF grade might suggest a lower market price.

 

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I think PFF is good for data and analytics.  Player evaluation is  entertainment for fans.  But some fans with this informational portal now think they are as talented as scouts.  Just like people think they are Scientists now because they read a science blog.

[Back2Buff]

  On 3/14/2023 at 4:09 AM, John from Riverside said:

I’m trying to figure out if you have ever said anything positive on this site like ever, I mean like ever

Looks like a quality, young guard who has gotten plenty of starter snaps who has flexibility to play three different positions

 

Doesn’t commit holding penalties

Doesn’t give up sacks
 

And came at $2 million cheaper than the name recognition guards then Ben Powers got the ridiculous contract

 

People stop looking at the name on the back of the jersey look at their physical traits and their production. This is what team does, so this is what you should do.

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So you say the same thing about everyone that doesn't drink the Kool Aid that Beane dishes out?

 

 

[John from Riverside]

  On 3/14/2023 at 11:33 AM, Back2Buff said:

 

So you say the same thing about everyone that doesn't drink the Kool Aid that Beane dishes out?

 

 

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If the shoe fits

[BrooklynBills]

  On 3/14/2023 at 12:47 AM, Einstein said:

 
I researched him extensively and I don’t know how anyone can say he’s not very good. The Ravens have an award for best linemen of the game. Powers won it 8 times last season. 

 

He’s also pretty NASTY and I like that. In college he told a reporter “I love taking a grown mans dream and just crushing it”. We need braulers like that on our team.

 

Speaking of PFF, they show his blocking got BETTER after Lamar got injured and went out.

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Powers is a good player.  The Broncos are paying him 12.6 APY and the Bills just gave McGovern 7.6.  I think the Bills will try to do some work on the OL to improve but their cap situation and the $$ resources that they've already put into it suggest that it will likely be a multi-year project. Without moving on from Morse (who I think the plan is that this is his last year here based on his contract), they can't really give someone a high APY on the OL.

 

Depending on what they think about Brown (and we don't really know despite what Beane has said publicly) I would guess they either sign a RT who can compete with Brown and spend a RD3-5 pick on an IOL with upside OR they are going RT with that RD1 pick. My guess is that they sign a vet RT to compete with Brown.

 

McGovern's versatility now allows them to potentially go into next year and comfortably move on from Morse (who is a 10+ cap hit).  They can then move either Bates or McGovern to C (both have shown that they can play C - I actually really like Bates C personally) and have space to bring in another high APY OL with Morse now gone.

[GunnerBill]

  On 3/14/2023 at 7:16 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Joe Marino liked it, too.

 

As for the Saffold thing... most would agree that Saffold was pretty good before this year, so you might be right about the "puff video," but that wouldn't necessarily be an indictment so much on Cover 1 as Saffold's free fall this season.

 

Are you sure this isn't just an ego driven post trying to slam others who do what you do?

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Not at all. Erik sees the positive in everything. It is just what he does. And I know I am not the majority but I have never been a Saffold fan. Even at his best he was overrated. But in 2021 he was very meh. 

 

I like the McGovern pick up. 

  On 3/14/2023 at 11:09 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

Would you feel better if we brought in competition for Bates or Brown?

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Brown need proper competition more I think. Bates I think will be who he is. It is crunch time for Brown. I want him to legit win that job in camp. 

[Royale with Cheese]

  On 3/14/2023 at 12:57 PM, GunnerBill said:

Brown need proper competition more I think. Bates I think will be who he is. It is crunch time for Brown. I want him to legit win that job in camp. 

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It sounds like McGovern is going to be the RG which would move Bates back to LG.  Is Bates better as a LG?

So the interior of our line might approve with just one addition.  LG won't be terrible and if McGovern is a better RG than Bates....potential solid group.

 

I actually hope Brown isn't our starting RT.  I think he just moves too slow for speed rushers and will get beat consistently.  

[DrDawkinstein]

  On 3/14/2023 at 11:09 AM, Solomon Grundy said:

Meanwhile.... Chiefs sign Jawaan Taylor

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Which a lot of Chiefs fans arent too thrilled about outside of the excitement of making moves on day 1 of Tampering.

 

I'm not a big PFF guy, but for some perspective and as they pointed out on ESPN yesterday:

 

LOST Orlando Brown - 75.8

LOST Andrew Wylie - 63.1

ADDED Jawaan Taylor - 58.7

 

For what it's worth, they have McGovern at 52.2

 

But it seems both the Chiefs and Bills OL signings were fairly comparable. We just heard of one more because theyre a higher profile position.

[John from Riverside]

  On 3/14/2023 at 12:47 PM, BrooklynBills said:

 

Powers is a good player.  The Broncos are paying him 12.6 APY and the Bills just gave McGovern 7.6.  I think the Bills will try to do some work on the OL to improve but their cap situation and the $$ resources that they've already put into it suggest that it will likely be a multi-year project. Without moving on from Morse (who I think the plan is that this is his last year here based on his contract), they can't really give someone a high APY on the OL.

 

Depending on what they think about Brown (and we don't really know despite what Beane has said publicly) I would guess they either sign a RT who can compete with Brown and spend a RD3-5 pick on an IOL with upside OR they are going RT with that RD1 pick. My guess is that they sign a vet RT to compete with Brown.

 

McGovern's versatility now allows them to potentially go into next year and comfortably move on from Morse (who is a 10+ cap hit).  They can then move either Bates or McGovern to C (both have shown that they can play C - I actually really like Bates C personally) and have space to bring in another high APY OL with Morse now gone.

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Besides the price, these are two different types of offensive lineman
 

Ben Powers is not as athletic as this kid is he played fullback for them for chrissake
Let’s not let the fact that he’s versatile be the deciding factor on opinions of him. If he can play the position, he can play the position.

[LABILLBACKER]

  On 3/14/2023 at 11:29 AM, ScottLaw said:

Actually no… many disliked the Saffold signing including @GunnerBill. There’s a reason he was released from the Titans. He was on the way down. 

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...and Quessenberry was garbage too....

[MrEpsYtown]

  On 3/14/2023 at 1:21 PM, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It sounds like McGovern is going to be the RG which would move Bates back to LG.  Is Bates better as a LG?

So the interior of our line might approve with just one addition.  LG won't be terrible and if McGovern is a better RG than Bates....potential solid group.

 

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I mean, I’m kind of speculating. I was a backup college linemen, and I had to practice power steps and pass sets on both sides of the line and the starters didn’t.
 

McGovern started at RG at PSU as a true freshmen. Moved to center for his sophomore year and back to RG as a junior. Out of the 30 something starts he had in college, about 2/3 came at RG. 
 

For Bates he started at left tackle and had a few games at left guard as a redshirt freshmen, started all the rest of his games there at LT. He started 3 games at RT as a junior. So all except 3 of his his 30 something starts came on the left side. 

Typically, I think guys should be able to switch sides pretty easily, but these guys spent every day for 3-4 years practicing the technique on one side. In my experience, College coaches usually don’t waste time having starters work other side steps. 

I don’t think it is that big of a deal since McGovern had a ton of work at LG this year, but I would probably slide Bates to the left and play McGovern on the right. His prowess and anchor on the twist game stuff will help Brown. And Bates said how comfortable he was on the left last year. Put these guys where they are most comfortable. 

[John from Riverside]

  On 3/14/2023 at 1:37 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

...and Quessenberry was garbage too....

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Quessenberry wasn’t that bad for a back up

 

I think people are dismissing just how hard it is to find quality offense of lineman period which is why we should keep drafting them

[Beck Water]

  On 3/13/2023 at 8:51 PM, KHAN said:

Only when it supports their own expert opinion. Otherwise PFF is cr@p.

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To be fair, the people who think PFF OL grades are crap and the people using them to support their opinions are not necessarily the same.

In fact, I think they're pretty much a disjoint set.

 

  On 3/14/2023 at 1:37 PM, MrEpsYtown said:

I mean, I’m kind of speculating. I was a backup college linemen, and I had to practice power steps and pass sets on both sides of the line and the starters didn’t.
 

McGovern started at RG at PSU as a true freshmen. Moved to center for his sophomore year and back to RG as a junior. Out of the 30 something starts he had in college, about 2/3 came at RG. 
 

For Bates he started at left tackle and had a few games at left guard as a redshirt freshmen, started all the rest of his games there at LT. He started 3 games at RT as a junior. So all except 3 of his his 30 something starts came on the left side. 

Typically, I think guys should be able to switch sides pretty easily, but these guys spent every day for 3-4 years practicing the technique on one side. In my experience, College coaches usually don’t waste time having starters work other side steps. 

I don’t think it is that big of a deal since McGovern had a ton of work at LG this year, but I would probably slide Bates to the left and play McGovern on the right. His prowess and anchor on the twist game stuff will help Brown. And Bates said how comfortable he was on the left last year. Put these guys where they are most comfortable. 

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I thought Bates played better on the L side in 2021 than he did on the R side in 2022. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Beck Water

[The Jokeman]

  On 3/14/2023 at 1:43 PM, Beck Water said:

 

To be fair, the people who think PFF OL grades are crap and the people using them to support their opinions are not necessarily the same.

In fact, I think they're pretty much a disjoint set.

 

 

I thought Bates played better on the L side in 2021 than he did on the R side in 2022. 

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It might be who he was lined up next to, as Dawkins far superior than Brown and/or Quisenberry.