Conner McGovern to Bills

[Yantha]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Based on? 

Based on how he plays OG.  It’s simple.  He can’t open holes in the running game.  Slightly better in pass protection.  I watch football…..

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Upgrade to Saffold but still should be a backup on the better teams…

This is a silly take. McGovern is clearly among the top 64 Guards in the league. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Upgrade to Saffold but still should be a backup on the better teams…

We had one of the worst O lines in the NFL last season.  The addition of McGovern moves us solidly towards the middle of the pack.  If after all is said and done the Bills O line performs as an average group next season then the Bills offense will be much better, and they were pretty darn good as it was.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Yantha said:

Based on how he plays OG.  It’s simple.  He can’t open holes in the running game.  Slightly better in pass protection.  I watch football…..

Cleary you don’t. One of the best pass blocking OGs in the league. And don’t give a flying ***** about run blocking this isn’t 1970. And it is still better than Saffold. 

[3rdand12]

7 minutes ago, Chaos said:

We save $6 mm on the cap by cutting Morse.  We all know that if we roll with Morse as our starter next season, a good chunk of his 11mm cap hit will be on the sidelines for a number of games. And if he is on the field, it is likely his play will deteriorate further.  We really should be looking at better options at center. 

yep I know , but he is going to get another year until Bills actually have someone who can replace his ability to call out play.
Bills need to find a guy to replace him and they still need a starting guard or two. Mixed emotions about Bates and Ike.

 What Connor's role becomes i am not sure. But he is a better guard than Saffold right away !

[Yantha]

Ok I don’t watch football.  You win.

6 minutes ago, Chaos said:

This is a silly take. McGovern is clearly among the top 64 Guards in the league. 

High praise!  
guys I’m not dissing the signing as bad as the impression is so far.  It’s an upgrade to saffold so the o line is already better.  But we still need a high OG draft pick.  
 

I was hoping for Seumalo.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Yantha

[MrEpsYtown]

8 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

Great stuff. Everybody happy now? This guy is going to be very good for us. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[3rdand12]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

We had one of the worst O lines in the NFL last season.  The addition of McGovern moves us solidly towards the middle of the pack.  If after all is said and done the Bills O line performs as an average group next season then the Bills offense will be much better, and they were pretty darn good as it was.

 

 

I dont think Allen needs the Best O line if football. Get middle of the pack would be enough for him to take over the rest 

 Go Bills

[BullBuchanan]

32 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

There just might be a chance that you’d have your own impression, rather than just relying on questionable internet content from strangers. There are a lot of opinions out there. 

 

There are a handful of people here whose opinions I really value. They don’t just read internet stuff. They watch football to form opinions. 

But you're a stranger with your own questionable internet content. Why should I trust your opinion watching a handful of plays on your TV over a statistical model built using game tape and extensive knowledge of the game?

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

But you're a stranger with your own questionable internet content. Why should I trust your opinion watching a handful of plays on your TV over a statistical model built using game tape and extensive knowledge of the game?

 

This is where you miss again. I HAVE no opinion this time of year. I’ve shared nothing about what we should do. I don’t know the FA’s, and I don’t know the draft class. I come here to learn this time of year. There are some people who have some opinions I value more than others. 

 

 

.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Augie

[Royale with Cheese]

42 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Yup. Every snap he has ever played has been watched and evaluated by experts  much more highly skilled and trained than any of us. Watching him play does nothing to provide a useful evaluation of his abilities, unless you're claiming that you're a better talent evaluator.

I actually watched a good handful of cowboys games last year, but never even knew the guy existed until an hour ago. I still really dislike the move and probably have a more valid reason for it than watching him play.

 

You're funny.

 

One.  

You never heard of this guy until an hour ago yet you already knew his reputation by all these experts that are highly skilled at talent evaluation?  How is that possible?

I would ask for proof, like a link where its wide known that he is an average pass blocker and terrible run blocker but I know you're making that up.  You just want to B word about the move.

 

And two.  So every snap that he has every played has been watched and evaluated by experts much more high skilled and trained than any of us.  That's true.

Does that include Beane and our scouting staff?  Unless you're claiming you're a better talent evaluator than the Bills Front Office. 

14 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

But you're a stranger with your own questionable internet content. Why should I trust your opinion watching a handful of plays on your TV over a statistical model built using game tape and extensive knowledge of the game?

 

Where is the content on this model?  Show us how you have this knowledge.

 

Do the Bills FO not watch game tape?

[BullBuchanan]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You're funny.

 

One.  

You never heard of this guy until an hour ago yet you already knew his reputation by all these experts that are highly skilled at talent evaluation?  How is that possible?

I would ask for proof, like a link where its wide known that he is an average pass blocker and terrible run blocker but I know you're making that up.  You just want to B word about the move.

 

And two.  So every snap that he has every played has been watched and evaluated by experts much more high skilled and trained than any of us.  That's true.

Does that include Beane and our scouting staff?  Unless you're claiming you're a better talent evaluator than the Bills Front Office. 

 

Where is the content on this model?  Show us how you have this knowledge.

 

Do the Bills FO not watch game tape?

One: ask and you shall receive - https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/connor-mcgovern/41714

 

Two - The Bills have proven under Beane to be mediocre talent evaluators. There is one all-pro on our team and he was drafted by Beane's predecessor. Beane's only significant draft hit int he upper rounds was Allen with a possible on Edmunds if you like him as a player. In FA we've got a lot more bad than good. Happy to debate that for the nth time if that's something you disagree with it.

As for the content of the model, here you go: https://www.pff.com/grades

As for if the Bills watch game tape or not, it's hard to say. You'd like to believe they do, but going by the fact that we almost never change our gameplan, and seem shocked when other teams mix it up on us, It's far from a given.

Edited March 14, 2023 by BullBuchanan

[Royale with Cheese]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

 
I researched him extensively and I don’t know how anyone can say he’s not very good. The Ravens have an award for best linemen of the game. Powers won it 8 times last season. 

 

He’s also pretty NASTY and I like that. In college he told a reporter “I love taking a grown mans dream and just crushing it”. We need braulers like that on our team.

 

Speaking of PFF, they show his blocking got BETTER after Lamar got injured and went out.

 

I don't care about PFF grades.  You 

 

I'm not taking a shot at you just to take a shot....but you had Allen Robinson as a top 10 WR after your research.  Robinson was terrible and not even in the top 50.

 

You had Jeffrey Simmons as a better defensive player than TJ Watt, Myles Garrett, Micah Parsons, Nick Bosa, Chris Jones....

 

The Titans were a more talented team than the Bills.

 

You have to be open to the idea that your opinions aren't infallible.  

Edited March 14, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[starrymessenger]

McGovern is outstanding in pass pro. Though tall for a guard he is great at keeping his pad level low to gain leverage, uses his hands extremely well, maintains an even, level base, anchors well, makes excellent decisions when having to decide which of two gaps to cover, is overall technically sound (see Cover 1). Likely only average in run blocking but clearly well above in pass pro. I bet he (and his agent) are looking two or three years down the road when they may reasonably expect him to be signing a bigger deal at 27-28 yrs old. Interested in seeing his use as a fullback/blocking TE. We do some of that already.

Edited March 14, 2023 by starrymessenger

[HappyDays]

 

[Royale with Cheese]

35 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

One: ask and you shall receive - https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/connor-mcgovern/41714

 

Two - The Bills have proven under Beane to be mediocre talent evaluators. There is one all-pro on our team and he was drafted by Beane's predecessor. Beane's only significant draft hit int he upper rounds was Allen with a possible on Edmunds if you like him as a player. In FA we've got a lot more bad than good. Happy to debate that for the nth time if that's something you disagree with it.

As for the content of the model, here you go: https://www.pff.com/grades

As for if the Bills watch game tape or not, it's hard to say. You'd like to believe they do, but going by the fact that we almost never change our gameplan, and seem shocked when other teams mix it up on us, It's far from a given.

 

Don't skirt the question.  Do you think PFF is a better talent evaluator than the Bills FO?  You obviously do because you think PFF is gospel.

 

Your proof that it's "well known" about his scouting report is one PFF report?  That's seriously what you're using?

 

PFF is infallible.  They never miss.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-denver-broncos-trade-seattle-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson-2022

 

Wilson is my fantasy QB7 ahead of 2022, behind only Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow at the moment. Jokes about Russ being the third-best QB in his own division aside: the Broncos are suddenly a legit title contender and figure to flirt with the league's top-10 scoring offenses for however long Russ wants to keep cooking.

 

https://nypost.com/2022/09/24/travis-kelces-stunning-accusation-about-pro-football-focus-grades/

“The thing is that these PFF graders are grading off of what they think the play should be,” Travis Kelce said. “Whereas we might have a specific fundamental or we might have a specific call that takes us into something else and the play doesn’t work. … The graders don’t necessarily know the objective of the play and the fundamentals that we’re being taught.”

 

“I also think that there [are] agents out here paying guys to get higher grades than others,” he said. “I won’t name any names.”

 

Conclusion:

"PFF knows more about football than the Kelce's." - BullBuchanan.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[MrEpsYtown]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Seems like a good fair deal to me. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 
I researched him extensively and I don’t know how anyone can say he’s not very good. The Ravens have an award for best linemen of the game. Powers won it 8 times last season. 

 

He’s also pretty NASTY and I like that. In college he told a reporter “I love taking a grown mans dream and just crushing it”. We need braulers like that on our team.

 

Speaking of PFF, they show his blocking got BETTER after Lamar got injured and went out.

 

https://nypost.com/2022/09/24/travis-kelces-stunning-accusation-about-pro-football-focus-grades/

 

“The thing is that these PFF graders are grading off of what they think the play should be,” Travis Kelce said. “Whereas we might have a specific fundamental or we might have a specific call that takes us into something else and the play doesn’t work. … The graders don’t necessarily know the objective of the play and the fundamentals that we’re being taught.”

That’s a common criticism of the site, but Travis later added to it.

“I also think that there [are] agents out here paying guys to get higher grades than others,” he said. “I won’t name any names.”

[BullBuchanan]

30 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Don't skirt the question.  Do you think PFF is a better talent evaluator than the Bills FO?  You obviously do because you think PFF is gospel.

 

Your proof that it's "well known" about his scouting report is one PFF report?  That's seriously what you're using?

 

PFF is infallible.  They never miss.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-denver-broncos-trade-seattle-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson-2022

 

Wilson is my fantasy QB7 ahead of 2022, behind only Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow at the moment. Jokes about Russ being the third-best QB in his own division aside: the Broncos are suddenly a legit title contender and figure to flirt with the league's top-10 scoring offenses for however long Russ wants to keep cooking.

 

Didn't skirt the question - provided you with an explicit response. do with it what you will.

I don't know if they're better than the bills or not for sure, but I'm leaning towards yes.

The PFF report I shared is not "one" report. It's a measurement of every play of every snap. If you read the grading criteria you would have known that. The yearly score is just a composite score of all snaps. each game has its own separate grades you can view.

As for PFF being infallible, their grading system is open for all to see. Yes, there are human beings at the helm measuring grades so by definition it is fallible like any assessment involving humans. However, it's a scientifically sound and thorough process that checks just about all the boxes you could hope to check in making a subjective analysis as objective in aggregate as possible

As for your Russel Wilson take, that's an op-ed, not a statistical analysis. I never referenced their op-ed material as a basis for my opinion. It's an irrelevant inclusion int his discussion. If you want to prove a point that their gradings have a high probability of being incorrect, try doing that instead.

Happy to keep doing this with you.

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

https://nypost.com/2022/09/24/travis-kelces-stunning-accusation-about-pro-football-focus-grades/

 

“The thing is that these PFF graders are grading off of what they think the play should be,” Travis Kelce said. “Whereas we might have a specific fundamental or we might have a specific call that takes us into something else and the play doesn’t work. … The graders don’t necessarily know the objective of the play and the fundamentals that we’re being taught.”

That’s a common criticism of the site, but Travis later added to it.

“I also think that there [are] agents out here paying guys to get higher grades than others,” he said. “I won’t name any names.”

Again, this is covered in the grading methodology if you cared to have read it. Kelce is making baseless assumptions without supporting evidence. Also, while football has a lot going on, it's a game filled with knowns. There are wrinkles in how each play is designed, but it's not exactly common for a player to have a responsibility on a play that's never happened before.

Edited March 14, 2023 by BullBuchanan

[Royale with Cheese]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Didn't skirt the question - provided you with an explicit response. do with it what you will.

I don't know if they're better than the bills or not for sure, but I'm leaning towards yes.

The PFF report I shared is not "one" report. It's a measurement of every play of every snap. If you read the grading criteria you would have known that. The yearly score is just a composite score of all snaps. each game has its own separate grades you can view.

As for PFF being infallible, their grading system is open for all to see. Yes, there are human beings at the helm measuring grades so by definition it is fallible like any assessment involving humans. However, it's a scientifically sound and thorough process that checks just about all the boxes you could hope to check in making a subjective analysis as objective in aggregate as possible

As for your Russel Wilson take, that's an op-ed, not a statistical analysis. I never referenced their op-ed material as a basis for my opinion. It's an irrelevant inclusion int his discussion. If you want to prove a point that their gradings have a high probability of being incorrect, try doing that instead.

Happy to keep doing this with you.

 

I just read the two stupidest sentences in the history of the internet (bolded).  There is a ton of applicants too....

 

https://nypost.com/2022/09/24/travis-kelces-stunning-accusation-about-pro-football-focus-grades/

 

“The thing is that these PFF graders are grading off of what they think the play should be,” Travis Kelce said. “Whereas we might have a specific fundamental or we might have a specific call that takes us into something else and the play doesn’t work. … The graders don’t necessarily know the objective of the play and the fundamentals that we’re being taught.”

Edited March 14, 2023 by Royale with Cheese