Ramsey to Dolphins

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, Chaos said:

And how should they have addressed the QB situation last year? 

Who knows what moves were available to them … at the very least, they didn’t need to go all-in on Chubb.  
 

I get the Armstead signing and Hill trade to find out what they have in Tua, but the Chubb trade and subsequent contract was an all-in move which negated their ability to potentially draft a QB this year with some maneuvering and likely led to them making the Ramsey move given how leveraged they find themselves. 
 

Maybe it works for them. … doubt it though. 
 

Edited March 12, 2023 by SCBills

[Paul Costa]

I didn’t read the first 12 pages of this ridiculousness. JA17 & Diggs have pissed all over Ramsey in the past. There was only one CB last year that gave up more TD’s than Ramsey. He’s washed. Terrible move by Miami. Good for 🦬. Hope the Jets get Rodgers too 😝

[Chaos]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

LMAO if you think Ramsey is the missing piece to make 2 SB's and win one.  You clearly havent watched Ramsey play the last 2 years.  Rams also had Stafford...Miami has an undersized QB with below average arm strength that has yet to play a full season and now has a pattern of severe concussion issues who the team can't even commit to.  

 

LOL at this comparison.  

Reading comprehension is important. Read the post I was replying too. 

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… it is a Bills board… while some are very objective, many think it’s as simple as “well we have Josh Allen and they don’t”. It’s really just a defensive mechanism at the possibility the Bills won’t won’t have it so easy in the division next season and may not win the division. 

I don’t see what it being a Bills board has to do with people saying that Jalen Ramsey sucks.  I’m a Chiefs fan, and I have no problem understanding that he’s an elite player.  It’s one thing to say that the Bills will still win the division.  It’s another to pretend that guys like Aaron Rodgers and Jalen Ramsey suck.

[Einstein]

41 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

And sorry, adding Ramsey to the Dolphins does not feel like the missing piece to get past the rest of the AFC that consists of Bills, KC, Cincy, and maybe even Jets if they land Rodgers.  

 

I agree with this.

 

But this must be looked at from a holistic perspective, not a micro view. The Dolphins have been making consistent good decisions. It's not JUST Ramsey. It's also:

 

- Bringing in Fangio, one of the most respect DC's in the league

- Bringing in Berry, an up and coming O-line coach that was part of the 49ers dominant running attack

- It's trading LT Tunsil for multiple first round picks then replacing him with...

- It's signing Armstead, a stud of a LT

- It's trading for Tyreek Hill and drafting Waddle, making the best WR tandem in the NFL.

- Its trading Jalen Ramsey for peanuts and then re-working his contract to make it more palatable

 

And they still have more cap space than the Bills with the 2023 free agency upcoming AND the draft.

 

And this is a team that brought the Bills to the brink 3 times last year, winning one of them and barely losing the other two, and one of those times they started a 3rd string QB.

 

So in my opinion it's not just Ramsey. It's a string of excellent decision making and quite frankly if they had Josh Allen they would be the favorites to win the Super Bowl. Thankfully they don't. But with the cast they're surrounding Tua with, it may be enough to make noise anyway.

[BillsFan2313]

Dolphins got Ramsey, and we have "Bills interested in Jamaal Williams" on March 12th? That's it, why do I even bother with this team. It's clear no moves to make the team better will be done. March 12th, and no moves made. Ridiculous. 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, Billl said:

I don’t see what it being a Bills board has to do with people saying that Jalen Ramsey sucks.  I’m a Chiefs fan, and I have no problem understanding that he’s an elite player.  It’s one thing to say that the Bills will still win the division.  It’s another to pretend that guys like Aaron Rodgers and Jalen Ramsey suck.

 

Well you are not very good at assessing players then, because Ramsey is not an elite player anymore.  He definitely doesn't suck, but his on field play is not at the level he just got paid for.  I live in LA and pretty much watched every Rams game he played, and I can say with extreme confidence he is not "elite" anymore.  

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well you are not very good at assessing players then, because Ramsey is not an elite player anymore.  He definitely doesn't suck, but his on field play is not at the level he just got paid for.  I live in LA and pretty much watched every Rams game he played, and I can say with extreme confidence he is not "elite" anymore.  

 

Ramsey was a top 10 ranked CB last year. 20+ spots above the nearest Bill. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

I agree with this.

 

But this must be looked at from a holistic perspective, not a micro view. The Dolphins have been making consistent good decisions. It's not JUST Ramsey. It's also:

 

- Bringing in Fangio, one of the most respect DC's in the league

- Bringing in Berry, an up and coming O-line coach that was part of the 49ers dominant running attack

- It's trading LT Tunsil for multiple first round picks then replacing him with...

- It's signing Armstead, a stud of a LT

- It's trading for Tyreek Hill and drafting Waddle, making the best WR tandem in the NFL.

- Its trading Jalen Ramsey for peanuts and then re-working his contract to make it more palatable

 

And they still have more cap space than the Bills with the 2023 free agency upcoming AND the draft.

 

And this is a team that brought the Bills to the brink 3 times last year, winning one of them and barely losing the other two, and one of those times they started a 3rd string QB.

 

So in my opinion it's not just Ramsey. It's a string of excellent decision making and quite frankly if they had Josh Allen they would be the favorites to win the Super Bowl. Thankfully they don't. But with the cast they're surrounding Tua with, it may be enough to make noise anyway.

 

I don't see their string of decisions as excellent as you.  And what you are missing is the cap hell that is right around the corner for Miami, and that is BEFORE they have to pay a QB in either Tua or someone else.  

 

I see a team leveraging their future and having to depend on Tua, who not only has not finished a season yet, but whose injuries are getting more severe.  The concussions he got last year are no small matter.  There is a reason Miami has consistently looked to improve upon Tua every year he has been there.  And Miami was on a 4 game losing streak with Tua that almost made them miss the playoffs last year before he got hurt again.

 

Miami has a lot invested in aging players or guys who are over paid going into next year.  This trade for Ramsey is a win this year move, the negative domino affect of their recent moves the last couple years starts compounding literally next year.  And it won't get better soon for them, so they will start losing players.  And if they are not a SB team now, then that won't get any easier for them when they start having to make cuts elsewhere because of how top heavy their cap is which will include several guys not living up to the prices they are being paid.  

 

So if Miami has leveraged themselves to win a SB this year or maybe next before they will be facing decisions that starts likely setting the team back some, not forward.  It may work, but nothing about Miami last year screamed they were an over rated defensive back away from the SB.  

 

MOST teams who leverage their future in all in moves like the Rams did end up never getting there and having to rebuild shortly after with no championship to show for us.  Rams were the outlier, and honestly, maybe more lucky than anything as I don't think they were the best team in the NFL that year.  IMHO, it is a terrible model to follow unless you really are just like one player away.  No one in the AFC is one player away because the AFC is too good to be reduced to that.  

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Billl]

21 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

LMAO if you think Ramsey is the missing piece to make 2 SB's and win one.  You clearly havent watched Ramsey play the last 2 years.  Rams also had Stafford...Miami has an undersized QB with below average arm strength that has yet to play a full season and now has a pattern of severe concussion issues who the team can't even commit to.  

 

LOL at this comparison.  

 

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well you are not very good at assessing players then, because Ramsey is not an elite player anymore.  He definitely doesn't suck, but his on field play is not at the level he just got paid for.  I live in LA and pretty much watched every Rams game he played, and I can say with extreme confidence he is not "elite" anymore.  

Congrats on watching Ramsey play the last 2 years and coming to the conclusion that he’s not elite.  He was first team All-pro two seasons ago and helped the Rams win a ring.  You’re not going to find a discussion about the best CBs in the NFL that doesn’t include JR.

[Sestak4ever]

People thought the Fins were winning it all last season when they overpaid for Chubb. How did that work out for them? These moves all seem like short sighted desperation with no concern for sustained success.

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Ramsey was a top 10 ranked CB last year. 20+ spots above the nearest Bill. 

 

How he stacks to a Bill is irrelevant.  And I watch the games, not google unreliable rankings from sites like PFF.  He is not still elite and I would have been sick to my stomach if we paid him that much money and gave up assets to get him.  

Edited March 12, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, Sestak4ever said:

People thought the Fins were winning it all last season when they overpaid for Chubb. How did that work out for them? These moves all seem like short sighted desperation with no concern for sustained success.

 

Now that’s a Fins move I think was bad. Giving up a 1st for overrated Chubb was a mistake.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, Sestak4ever said:

People thought the Fins were winning it all last season when they overpaid for Chubb. How did that work out for them? These moves all seem like short sighted desperation with no concern for sustained success.

What? 

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

Congrats on watching Ramsey play the last 2 years and coming to the conclusion that he’s not elite.  He was first team All-pro two seasons ago and helped the Rams win a ring.  You’re not going to find a discussion about the best CBs in the NFL that doesn’t include JR.

 

Did I say his play the year before wasn't any good?  I said I have watched every game he has been a Ram for the most part, and that he TODAY is not still elite.  His play has diminished.  

 

And since win does a TEAM winning a SB mean a single player must be elite anyway?  That is the most ridiculous logic I have seen.  I already said he doesn't suck, but no offense, how can someone like yourself who has not watched him play actually give any kind of an informed opinion here?  Why because you have heard of him?  

 

I will rely on actually watching him play over your google searches of other peoples opinions who mostly didn't watch all his games either.  Roger Saffold was voted to the Pro Bowl this year...shows the value that a name carries amongst people who didn't actually watch him play.

 

 

So maybe google less, and watch more.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I get what they’re doing, but Tua isn’t Stafford of two years ago and the AFC isn’t the NFC. 

There are plenty of questions about Tua but he was the highest rated passer in the nfl in his first year in that offense. Not sure he holds up but he was pretty good when he played last year. He’s not Zack Wilson.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I’m not exactly sure I understand what the Dolphins are doing.  
 

Trade for Hill, huge contract. 
 

Trade for Chubb, huge contract

 

Trade for Ramsey, huge contract

 

Restructures all around.  
 

It’s the Rams model, swap Stafford for Tua and the NFC for the AFC.  

They're going the route of the LA Rams 

[97bills]

Buffalo needs to fix the Oline … and get Allen more help, because what makes a good corner look great is getting pressure on the QB. And we seen that way to many times last year. 

[QLBillsFan]

23 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Ramsey was a top 10 ranked CB last year. 20+ spots above the nearest Bill. 

According to what data? He plays aggressively and gets burned a fair amount. He’s a good corner but certainly “shut down”.. no corners are.

[C.Biscuit97]

48 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Not surprised by the usual doom and gloom suspects over reacting and over dramatizing this trade...but lets strip all that away and try and take a more RATIONAL look at this trade:

• Miami improved today in their secondary.  But not as much as the classic doom and gloom posters around here are over exaggerating.  I have watched pretty much every game Ramsey has played here in LA, and he is not as consistent as he once was, and his past reputation exceeds his play on the field. 
  • And at what cost?  Miami over paid, and their cap hits next year are severe with guys approaching the later years of their careers or guys who are not delivering the value of what they are being paid.  
  • IMHO, Miami could have saved their assets and signed someone cheaper in FA who could have delivered a similar value on the field as Ramsey.  They way over paid here between contract and cost to acquire. 
• Miami still has a major question mark at QB...not a little one, a major one.  Not only has Tua not played a full season yet, the reasons he is missing games are getting more severe.  Getting 2 concussions in a season is bad enough, getting 2 to the degree he did is another level of concern.  And he plays a position where recurring concussions have a higher frequency, especially on someone of his smaller stature.  
  • And it is not just about him surviving this season, its his ability to survive moving forward because Miami is going to have to pay him soon and that is going to cost Miami players because their cap is going to be a mess when they extend him. 
• Miami was losing WITH Tua last year.  Yes he had a hot start, but he cooled off and teams started to figure out how to defend them better and Tua's weak arm started show up and his mistakes cost the teams games that almost made them miss the playoffs.  So even if healthy, he has to prove he can be the guy.
• This was a Rams like move, where they risk future set backs to try and go all in now.  Difference is, Rams had a QB that was more reliable and proven to do that with and were a lot closer to representing the NFC in the SB.
  • Miami has to get past the murderers row in the AFC of Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and probably Rodgers now too.  Not to mention you still have a rising team in Jax now adding Calvin Ridley to the offense, and Herbert and maybe even Denver if Peyton can turn the Wilson situation around (which I am personally skeptical of).  Bottom line is, path in the AFC is a lot tougher than what Rams were facing where they were "going all in".  And I have a hard time seeing Ramsey of today as the missing piece to getting past all those teams.  

Bottom line:  I don't fear the Ramsey trade much at all, in fact, ARod to the Jets is going to be a more serious threat.  Miami wasn't a CB away from winning the SB last year, but the Jets were a QB away from being very dangerous last year.  Not to mention, they get Breece Hall back this year too.  

They went 8-4 in games Tua started and finished. They were 24th in defense and hired arguably the best DC and traded nothing for at worst a pro bowl type CB.

 

why is everything so black or white. I still think the Bills are the best team in the division. However, Miami made themselves, on paper, a lot better with Fangio and Ramsey, which besides Tia’s health, was their major weakness last year. He’s a huge nerd but McDaniel is a really good offensive coach.  Miami has the foundation of a really good team and those two wins I locked in with them aren’t guaranteed any more. 
 

again, we have a 200 page thread on Odell, who has been declining for 5 years and can’t stay healthy.