DrDawkinstein Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 8 minutes ago, Chaos said: Successful QB on a rookie contract Oh, I thought you were talking about teams that picked another QB while they had one on the roster already. But to the point of success with a QB on a rookie contract, how many/which teams have won a Super Bowl with a QB on a rookie contract in the last 20 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 24 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Oh, I thought you were talking about teams that picked another QB while they had one on the roster already. But to the point of success with a QB on a rookie contract, how many/which teams have won a Super Bowl with a QB on a rookie contract in the last 20 years? Since 2012, Russell Wilson (2013), Nick Foles (2017) and Patrick Mahomes (2019). Since 2012 3 QBS on Rookie QBs won Super Bowls. Tom Brady won 4 Super Bowls. All other QBs combined 3 Super Bowls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 18 hours ago, WotAGuy said: Panthers made a good deal. They obviously found someone they like and are swinging hard to find a QB at the top of the draft. It’s worth a shot to take your pick of the draft when the time is right. Bears made out pretty well considering there wasn’t anyone that would be worth a #1 pick that was not a QB given the compensation received. Everyone knew the Bears were looking to get rid of #1 .....but That's a massive haul Carolina gave up to pick from one of the more mediocre QB classes in a while. lol, Panthers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Everyone knew the Bears were looking to get rid of #1 .....but That's a massive haul Carolina gave up to pick from one of the more mediocre QB classes in a while. lol, Panthers. Hey, at least they are giving it a shot. If the guy they select works out, it’s a home run. The 2018 draft was supposed to be a good one for QBs and most of them are stiffs. So while you say it’s a mediocre class, all they need is one guy to pan out - the one they pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestak4ever Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Mahomes wasn’t a can’t miss prospect like luck and KC got laughed at for trading up. Imagine how that looks now. The bills should have gotten 5 1st rounds pick at least. the panthers have a pretty solid team. They have a sneaky good defense and before he went wirh all retread qbs, reich was one of the better qb coaches in the league. They can draft a guy and put him in an Allen type situation where he doesn’t have to carry the team and grow. I like this move for them and love it for the bears. Can say the same for a few qb's, however there are more JaMarcus Russells, Brady Quinns, David Carrs, Ryan Leafs, Harringtons, etc. You just never know, especially how quickly they can process what is happening on the field. I wish Reich the best of luck as I think he is a very good head coach. The success of the trade is strictly based on how well all the draft picks perform in the pros. As always, time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chaos said: Since 2012, Russell Wilson (2013), Nick Foles (2017) and Patrick Mahomes (2019). Since 2012 3 QBS on Rookie QBs won Super Bowls. Tom Brady won 4 Super Bowls. All other QBs combined 3 Super Bowls. Foles wasnt on a rookie contract in 2017. It was already his 6th season and he was back to Philly on a FA contract. But that is 2 QBs (Wilson '13, Mahomes '19) who won the Super Bowl while still on their rookie contract in the last 20 years. I guess if we said 25 years, that gets Brady in there for 3. But 3 in 25 years isnt much better. Doesnt seem to be a big correlation between QBs on rookie deals and winning Super Bowls. Edited March 11, 2023 by DrDawkinstein typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: Foles wasnt on a rookie contract in 2017. It was already his 7th season and he was back to Philly on a FA contract. But that is 2 QBs (Wilson '13, Mahomes '19) who won the Super Bowl while still on their rookie contract in the last 20 years. I guess if we said 25 years, that gets Brady in there for 3. But 3 in 25 years isnt much better. Doesnt seem to be a big correlation between QBs on rookie deals and winning Super Bowls. Yes because 25 years ago is a relevent to today's salary cap and free agent rules as the last 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 19 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Tepper was desperate. What a massive gift the Texans gave the Bears. That trade haul was a massive home run for the Bears. I am surprised the Panthers included More who would have been a valuable piece for the new QB. Especially since they could have probably just traded Moore on his own somewhere else and regained one of those premium draft picks. Agree this wreaks of desperation by the Panthers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Chaos said: Yes because 25 years ago is a relevent to today's salary cap and free agent rules as the last 10 years. 25 years ago had all the same modern FA structure. You'd have to go to the mid-90s to get past when the Salary Cap and FA modernized. But sure, I'll give you just the last 10 years. That's 2. Again, not quite a strong argument with just 20%. It makes sense that it should be easier for teams ith QBs on rookie contracts. The logic is clear. But it doesnt seem to play out that way when it comes to results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: 25 years ago had all the same modern FA structure. You'd have to go to the mid-90s to get past when the Salary Cap and FA modernized. But sure, I'll give you just the last 10 years. That's 2. Again, not quite a strong argument with just 20%. It makes sense that it should be easier for teams ith QBs on rookie contracts. The logic is clear. But it doesnt seem to play out that way when it comes to results. You really don't seem to get the point. The best strategy in the last 25 years was to have Tom Brady as QB. The next best strategy was to have one of the other top 5 QBs. By definition, 26 teams don't get to use the strategy of having a top 6 QB. The remaining choices are to go with mid tier QBs, ie the Kirk Cousins, Derek Carrs of the world, or try to build around a future star QB on a rookie contract. This last choise is why the Panthers traded up. Literally no one is arguing it is the best or the only way to go. I am sure Reich would rather have Mahomes or Allen. Simply not choice. Among the available choices, this is what the Panthers chose to do. Unless they don't draft a QB in the draft, this is simply a fact, not an opinion or discussion point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 6 minutes ago, Chaos said: You really don't seem to get the point. The best strategy in the last 25 years was to have Tom Brady as QB. The next best strategy was to have one of the other top 5 QBs. By definition, 26 teams don't get to use the strategy of having a top 6 QB. The remaining choices are to go with mid tier QBs, ie the Kirk Cousins, Derek Carrs of the world, or try to build around a future star QB on a rookie contract. This last choise is why the Panthers traded up. Literally no one is arguing it is the best or the only way to go. I am sure Reich would rather have Mahomes or Allen. Simply not choice. Among the available choices, this is what the Panthers chose to do. Unless they don't draft a QB in the draft, this is simply a fact, not an opinion or discussion point. Ah, word. Completely agree with the bold. I'd rather roll the dice on a rookie with a rookie contract than pay big money to the mid tier guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: What a massive gift the Texans gave the Bears. That trade haul was a massive home run for the Bears. I am surprised the Panthers included More who would have been a valuable piece for the new QB. Especially since they could have probably just traded Moore on his own somewhere else and regained one of those premium draft picks. Agree this wreaks of desperation by the Panthers What did the Texans give the Bears? Yep, it's a huge haul, but you have to assume there were other teams bidding for the pick, probably Indy, Washington, and maybe others. This was just what the market dictated. If Fields can take a step forward, which I think he definitely can, the Bears have set themselves up very nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongli Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) Edited March 11, 2023 by chongli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, mannc said: What did the Texans give the Bears? Yep, it's a huge haul, but you have to assume there were other teams bidding for the pick, probably Indy, Washington, and maybe others. This was just what the market dictated. If Fields can take a step forward, which I think he definitely can, the Bears have set themselves up very nicely. Bears only got the first pick because Houston won their last game of the season or Houston would have had the top pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 22 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Bears only got the first pick because Houston won their last game of the season or Houston would have had the top pick. True, but I assume the Texans would have kept the first pick and taken a QB, and the Bears still could have gotten a nice haul for the second overall pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, mannc said: True, but I assume the Texans would have kept the first pick and taken a QB, and the Bears still could have gotten a nice haul for the second overall pick. I doubt Carolina gives them this same package to take the second QB in the draft though if Houston had the top pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I doubt Carolina gives them this same package to take the second QB in the draft though if Houston had the top pick Yeah, no question the haul would have been lighter, and they might have had to wait until draft day to finalize the trade, but the Bears still would have come out of it very nicely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, mannc said: Yeah, no question the haul would have been lighter, and they might have had to wait until draft day to finalize the trade, but the Bears still would have come out of it very nicely. Yeah, agree they likely still make a trade and get a nice haul. My original comment was that Texans gave them a gift of getting even more by just having won their last game and giving them the top pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Yeah, agree they likely still make a trade and get a nice haul. My original comment was that Texans gave them a gift of getting even more by just having won their last game and giving them the top pick. Thanks, Lovie! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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