Drafting Has Been A Problem For Decades

[billsfan89]

The Bills have had late-round or undrafted gems. In the drought, the late-round picks and undrafted players were actually not the issues. Jason Peters was undrafted and flipped for a 1st and a 4th. Peerless Price while a 2nd round pick was flipped for a 1st at the height of his value. Jabari Greer and Fred Jackson were undrafted players with a good degree of success. Stevie Johnson, D'Norris Searcy, Nigel Bradham, Terrance McGee and Kyle Williams were mid to late-round picks who panned out well. 

 

The issue with the Bills drafting particularly during the drought was struggling to draft well in the early rounds and free agency. The Bills had so many busts in rounds 1-3 from 2002-2016 and the players they hit on that were productive were rarely dynamic players. There were a lot of Donte Whitner type successes where they were solid players but nothing special. 

[Royale with Cheese]

18 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Over the years we’ve seen other teams draft late rounders and turn them into HOFs or trade them for 1-3rd round picks. I can hardly think of anyone we have drafted that we ended up flipping for a draft capital gain. 
Diggs was a 5th rounder and traded for a 1st. Why can’t we have nice things like that? 
Instead we draft 1-2nd round players and trade them for peanuts. The list is extensive. It’s primarily why we have never won a super bowl. Probably the #1 reason. If it wasn’t for Allen, we’d be in for a load of hurt. 

 

This is amazing.  Because last year you said this team was built so strong that a back up QB could take us to the Super Bowl.  

This is a year ago and before the draft.  

 

On 3/19/2022 at 4:38 PM, IronMaidenBills said:

Great trade. I feel like Keenum could take us to the super bowl with our current squad if something ever happened to Josh. He’s not worse than Trent Dilfer is what I mean. 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This is amazing.  Because last year you said this team was built so strong that a back up QB could take us to the Super Bowl.  

This is a year ago and before the draft.  

 

 

 

BillsMafia is IN THEIR FEELINGS this offseason Gonna be a long one...

[skibum]

I think if you really looked at every team's drafting over the years, which would be incredibly tedious, you would find that the Bills are probably not much different from everyone else. Every team misses more than they hit, and a great many top QB prospects never pan out. Late round Pro-bowlers are rare everywhere. 

 

The problem is that Bills fans look at the aggregated draft successes of all 31 other teams combined, and compare it to the Bills - without any real knowledge of other teams' draft failures, which are many. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, skibum said:

I think if you really looked at every team's drafting over the years, which would be incredibly tedious, you would find that the Bills are probably not much different from everyone else. Every team misses more than they hit, and a great many top QB prospects never pan out. Late round Pro-bowlers are rare everywhere. 

 

The problem is that Bills fans look at the aggregated draft successes of all 31 other teams combined, and compare it to the Bills - without any real knowledge of other teams' draft failures, which are many. 

 

I think if you can get 2 starters in a draft, it's successful.  I think ideally you want to get a lot of depth in the draft because of the salaries they make.

[Milanos Milano]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This is amazing.  Because last year you said this team was built so strong that a back up QB could take us to the Super Bowl.  

This is a year ago and before the draft.  

 

 

My optimism got the best of me, and I generally felt we had what it took. Man was I wrong, I now feel like this roster is not good enough, we got absolutely rolled by a way better Cincinnati team. If it wasn’t for Allen and Diggs, we wouldn’t even be in the playoffs. 

[Milanos Milano]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

The Bills have had late-round or undrafted gems. In the drought, the late-round picks and undrafted players were actually not the issues. Jason Peters was undrafted and flipped for a 1st and a 4th. Peerless Price while a 2nd round pick was flipped for a 1st at the height of his value. Jabari Greer and Fred Jackson were undrafted players with a good degree of success. Stevie Johnson, D'Norris Searcy, Nigel Bradham, Terrance McGee and Kyle Williams were mid to late-round picks who panned out well. 

 

The issue with the Bills drafting particularly during the drought was struggling to draft well in the early rounds and free agency. The Bills had so many busts in rounds 1-3 from 2002-2016 and the players they hit on that were productive were rarely dynamic players. There were a lot of Donte Whitner type successes where they were solid players but nothing special. 

 

While it’s true we found some gems in the later rounds, none of those gems are truly elite, to the point where their talents can transcend a team. You are right, our 1-3 round drafting has been absolutely garbage for nearly 25 years. It’s the main reason why we haven’t won a super bowl. 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

My optimism got the best of me, and I generally felt we had what it took. Man was I wrong, I now feel like this roster is not good enough, we got absolutely rolled by a way better Cincinnati team. If it wasn’t for Allen and Diggs, we wouldn’t even be in the playoffs. 

If we didn’t have our best players, we would not have done as well. Imagine that.

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

If we didn’t have our best players, we would not have done as well. Imagine that.

The point is, the talent surrounding Allen and Diggs is not good enough. We’ve had to rely on the FA class to plug holes, and as a result, the cap room has shrunk. It’s because our draft class hasn’t been good enough to substitute for the higher FA salaries. We haven’t been able to flip draft picks for value gain, and instead have had to write off value losses (Ford, etc). 

[billsfan89]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

 

While it’s true we found some gems in the later rounds, none of those gems are truly elite, to the point where their talents can transcend a team. You are right, our 1-3 round drafting has been absolutely garbage for nearly 25 years. It’s the main reason why we haven’t won a super bowl. 

 

 

 

The drafting under McBeane has been better which is a huge reason why they have been winning in recent years. From 2017-2018 the team found All-Pro talents in Josh Allen, Matt Milano, and Tre White, they also found Pro-Bowl caliber talents in Dion Dawkins and Edumonds and some underrated players like T.Johnson. 2019-2022 has not been as strong but they have consistently hit on productive players. Elam, Cook, and Groot have a lot of potential and already are starting caliber players, Knox is a top 10 player at his position, Bass is a stud kicker, and the level of production from other players like Davis, Singletary, Ed Oliver, Dane Jackson, and AJ has been positive. And there is still hope for late bloomers in Boogie, Spencer Brown, Shakir, and others. 

 

I also disagree that the Bills have never found elite talent in later rounds. Matt Milano was a 5th-round pick but going back even father Jason Peters is a Hall of Famer that was undrafted by the Bills and was a stud his few years here before being traded for a 1st and 4th. Kyle Williams was a 5th-round pick and an All-Pro/Pro-Bowl talent for a stretch of time. On top of that, Pat Williams was an undrafted player and was a stud. 

 

I think you are not really giving credit to a player like Jason Peters who was one of the best-undrafted players of all time or other very good to great late-round and undrafted players the Bills have had come through. Outside of Kurt Warner, Brady, and a few others, I can't really think of too many transcendent players that went undrafted or were drafted very late. 

[billsfan89]

9 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

The point is, the talent surrounding Allen and Diggs is not good enough. We’ve had to rely on the FA class to plug holes, and as a result, the cap room has shrunk. It’s because our draft class hasn’t been good enough to substitute for the higher FA salaries. We haven’t been able to flip draft picks for value gain, and instead have had to write off value losses (Ford, etc). 

 

The 2017 and 2018 Bills draft classes were amazing but the 2019-2022 draft classes thus far have been OK. The Bills in 2017-2018 hit a lot of "home runs" and "triples". I would say that Josh Allen, Tre White, and Matt Milano were home-run picks while Dion Dawkins, T.Johnson, and Edmonds were triples so to speak. Whereas from 2019 to 2022 the team has hit a lot of single and double. The Bills have found productive players who can start at an effective level or play a role such as Knox, Singletary, Ed Oliver, Groot, Elam, Davis, AJ and Dane Jackson but they have not had any truly elite players or even "very good" players come out of those drafts outside of Bass who is a ST player. 

 

I still hold out hope for Groot, Elam, Cook and others to take that next step but the 2019 draft class and 2020 draft classes don't look like they will be producing that type of player. The two best players in those drafts are Knox and Ed Oliver, both are solid starting caliber players but neither is elite or close to being a "Pro Bowl" caliber player. If the Bills hope to win a Super Bowl they need more development from the 2021 and 2022 classes and a good impact from the 2023 class.

[McBean]

18 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

It’s almost like McD’s best draft was in 2017, when Whaley was still GM. Shoot, we did somehow manage to draft Nathan Peterman in the 5th round.

All jokes aside, we drafted Tre White, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano that year. Has Beane been able to outdo that draft since he’s been here? Major kudos for drafting Allen, but what else has he done outside of that?

 

 

Answer: not a damn thing.

[John from Riverside]

Do you know this is the kind of thread that I would see on a three and 13 team not a 13 and three team

[Milanos Milano]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Do you know this is the kind of thread that I would see on a three and 13 team not a 13 and three team

We are 13-3 simply because of Josh Allen and Diggs. We are not winning Super Bowls because we are losing to more balanced teams. Josh Allen isn’t super man, he’s amazing and it’s a testament to how good he is with the less elite talent around him. 
 

Just go get Josh Allen DeAndre Hopkins and draft a bunch of olinemen and we would win a super bowl. 

Hopkins + Diggs + Oline infusion = Super Bowl 

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

We are 13-3 simply because of Josh Allen and Diggs. We are not winning Super Bowls because we are losing to more balanced teams. Josh Allen isn’t super man, he’s amazing and it’s a testament to how good he is with the less elite talent around him. 
 

Just go get Josh Allen DeAndre Hopkins and draft a bunch of olinemen and we would win a super bowl. 

Hopkins + Diggs + Oline infusion = Super Bowl 

It’s sad that I have to tell you this, but
A team is not based off two players. You can have a great one to combination it doesn’t get you to 13 and three.

 

I can’t believe you need to be told this

[Milanos Milano]

6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

It’s sad that I have to tell you this, but
A team is not based off two players. You can have a great one to combination it doesn’t get you to 13 and three.

 

I can’t believe you need to be told this

We are likely 10-7 without Josh and Diggs.  We are not a better overall team vs Cincinnati, which is all that matters. We need to go out and do what Philly did, trade or draft an elite WR to pair with Diggs.  Go trade for Hopkins and draft a player like Hyatt and we will win a super bowl. 

Hopkins is the missing piece, and we are in a striking position to make it happen. Now is the time to do these kinds of trades. 

 

Diggs

Hopkins

Hyatt

Davis

Shakir 

 

Is a super bowl caliber offense. 

[Saint Doug]

I agree with the OP. For example, to bolster his point, back in the 2000 draft, we wasted a bunch of draft picks. Instead of Leif Larsen, we could’ve picked Tom Brady at pick 194. Who ever heard of a Viking playing DT? What were we doing???? 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

We are likely 10-7 without Josh and Diggs.  

 

I think that's very generous.  IMO we're not even 10-7 w/o merely Allen.  Take Allen off this team and put say Keenum in there and as I see it instead of 13-3 this season we'd have been no better than 8-8, probably a game or two worse than that even, rivaling our worst teams over that prior period.  I mean honestly, without Allen what kind of offense do we have?  LOL  

 

Honestly, if you compare our team to other teams during that playoff drought era, "the Last 20 Years," I think that the rosters we had most of those years apart from Allen were better.  

 

Put Allen on most of those teams and we make the playoffs a bunch of times, possibly even win won with the roster we had during Gailey's time.  The OLs on almost all of those teams were better and can you recall when we had worse RBs?  Our defenses were no worse, typically better.  One year we had the DL of Schobel, Williams, and Kelsay.  Hell, that's worlds better than what we have now.  Fletcher, Spikes, and someone else decent at LB, and a very good secondary too.  

 

BTW, our issue isn't the regular season, it's the playoffs.  Diggs hasn't played well in the last five playoff games.  Miami, but Davis outplayed him.  Diggs hasn't had a TD in the last 5 playoff games.  When you're getting that kind of money a lot is expected.  

 

Out biggest players no-show in the playoffs.   Here is Digg's last five playoff games, the big game was Miami this season.  

 

RecYardsTD

6 for 77,  0 TDs 

3 for 60,  0  TDs 

3 for 7, 0 TDs  

7 for 114,  0  TDs  

4 for 35,  0  TDs  

 

Everyone's all over Davis, but that's a total of 23 catches for 293 yards and 0 TDs in the last 5 playoff games.  In our three biggest games, two against KC and the one against Cinci, Diggs had 13 catches for a 119 yards, 0 TDs of course.  That's horrific for someone getting paid like he is.  

 

Davis on the other hand, a late 4th rounder that everyone's griping about, in those same five games had 18 for 389 and 6 TDs.  In the three games against KC and Cinci he had 10 for 235, 4 TDs.  Granted, most of that was in that one KC game, but the point is that Diggs isn't playing anywhere near to what's expected in the playoffs.  Neither are any of our 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round draftees except for Allen.  

 

Take Diggs off too and I see us talking about who we're drafting with our 5th overall pick.  

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by PBF81

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

My optimism got the best of me, and I generally felt we had what it took. Man was I wrong, I now feel like this roster is not good enough, we got absolutely rolled by a way better Cincinnati team. If it wasn’t for Allen and Diggs, we wouldn’t even be in the playoffs. 

You’re acting like we are the only team that wouldn’t make the playoffs if our two best players were gone lol.

 

No Mahomes or Kelce means no playoffs for Chiefs.

 

No Burrow and Chase means no playoffs for the Bengals.

 

 

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

We are likely 10-7 without Josh and Diggs.  We are not a better overall team vs Cincinnati, which is all that matters. We need to go out and do what Philly did, trade or draft an elite WR to pair with Diggs.  Go trade for Hopkins and draft a player like Hyatt and we will win a super bowl. 

Hopkins is the missing piece, and we are in a striking position to make it happen. Now is the time to do these kinds of trades. 

 

Diggs

Hopkins

Hyatt

Davis

Shakir 

 

Is a super bowl caliber offense. 

 
If we go 10-7 without Allen and Diggs then you really believe McDermott is an excellent coach.  Winning 10 games without a franchise QB and a #1 WR in the AFC?  
 

Do what Philly did?  Trade a first round pick for a vet WR?  Man, we haven’t tried that you’re right.  

Edited March 10, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[Milanos Milano]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

You’re acting like we are the only team that wouldn’t make the playoffs if our two best players were gone lol.

 

No Mahomes or Kelce means no playoffs for Chiefs.

 

No Burrow and Chase means no playoffs for the Bengals.

 

 

 
If we go 10-7 without Allen and Diggs then you really believe McDermott is an excellent coach.  Winning 10 games without a franchise QB and a #1 WR in the AFC?  
 

Do what Philly did?  Trade a first round pick for a vet WR?  Man, we haven’t tried that you’re right.  

Philly had already drafted a 1st round WR and then traded for another elite WR. Cincinnati has 2 elite WRs, and Mahomes has Kelce and decent supporting players. 

If Buffalo wants to compete against Philly, Cinci, and KC , they need another elite offensive weapon. 

 

There aren’t many elite WRs on the trade market.  Diggs + Hopkins is unstoppable. Then draft Hyatt to be WR3.