Defensive Coordinator Candidates…whose worth a look?

[somnus00]

5 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

What game management decisions do you make while playing defense?

He already wastes TO on defense so maybe that might actually get better if he is calling the plays. 

He still needs to manage the game when the offense is on the field, but if he's calling defense, he also needs to be managing in-game defensive scouting and adjustments.

 

The d coordinator isn't just taking a break when the offense is on the field. I think I remember McDermott hired an assistant for game management. He'll need to lean on this assistant much more. Some head coaches can do this, but I'm nervous about McDermott's ability to be one of those guys.

[newcam2012]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't know why people keep talking about this. They are not bringing anyone else in. McDermott is going to call the D and they will use the existing staff on the gameplanning. I expect they will say more when OTAs come around, but I expect Holcombe will be the senior assistant - as his title suggests - but he won't get to design the scheme or call the plays and therefore isn't the coordinator in the conventional sense. 

I really hope McD calls the plays. Thus far, he has been able to shield himself from much criticism via Fraizer. This will put him front and center. 

 

I suspect this will make or break his tenure with the Bills. We are about to find out how good he is. That's a good thing. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

I really hope McD calls the plays. Thus far, he has been able to shield himself from much criticism via Fraizer. This will put him front and center. 

 

I suspect this will make or break his tenure with the Bills. We are about to find out how good he is. That's a good thing. 

 

To an extent I agree in the sense that I think bringing in a new coordinator would mean if the defense struggled in 2023 there would be the inbuilt first year DC excuse that we have seen some make for Dorsey this year. As for how good is Sean McDermott, I think we know that. Anyone who doesn't think he is a very good coach and one of the best defensive minds in the NFL really isn't worth listening to. But as for the question is this regime - McDermott and Beane combined - the one to get the Bills over the hump to win a Championship 2023 is a critical juncture. I don't want any inbuilt excuses I want them to put their best effort forward (hopefully be a bit luckier with injuries than we were in 2022) and see how the chips fall then evaluate the future of the regime on that basis after the season. 

[Rico]

McD to also serve as DC, and hire Vontaze Burfict as Attitude Adjuster.

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't know why people keep talking about this. They are not bringing anyone else in. McDermott is going to call the D and they will use the existing staff on the gameplanning. I expect they will say more when OTAs come around, but I expect Holcombe will be the senior assistant - as his title suggests - but he won't get to design the scheme or call the plays and therefore isn't the coordinator in the conventional sense. 

 

This.  I mean this subject is as worn out as the trade Diggs nonsense which is also never gonna happen this year.  We are not bringing anyone in from the outside, and already have guys with DC experience on the staff to help out.  McD is going to call the plays.  And if something changes and McD decides not to call the plays, one of the guys on staff will be elevated to DC to run the type of D that McD wants to run this year.  

 

Its like people want to just keep talking in circles about things that are not going to happen.  Might as well start talking about the Antonio Brown trade again.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[RyanC883]

14 hours ago, somnus00 said:

McDermott has struggled with game management decisions in the past. The idea of him calling the defense is intriguing, but I'd imagine that the game management decisions will regress as a result. That makes me nervous. 

 

he needs to be a HC or DC.  right now, he seems better as a DC.  perhaps an Assist HC can take over game day management.  

[Kiva]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

13 seconds won't. But there's certainly a non-zero chance that Leslie Frazier will.

 

It's you who's kidding yourself that he won't be back if things fall right. There's a good chance they won't fall right, but if they do, they love Frazier here, and for good reason.

 

 

 

 

This is my guess too.

 

 

There’s no chance Frazier is back. They didn’t extend him and he left the team. The year off is jargon, a nice way to say you’re out of here. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because Leslie wasn't fired. 

Well, officially, no, and for obvious reasons. You can't exactly fire a black DC running a top-5 defense after a 14-3 record while the O only put 10 points in the final playoff game. Especially when he's basically just running the HC's scheme. The Bills and NFL would get hammered.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, somnus00 said:

He still needs to manage the game when the offense is on the field, but if he's calling defense, he also needs to be managing in-game defensive scouting and adjustments.

 

The d coordinator isn't just taking a break when the offense is on the field. I think I remember McDermott hired an assistant for game management. He'll need to lean on this assistant much more. Some head coaches can do this, but I'm nervous about McDermott's ability to be one of those guys.

Fair enough. But he can just tell his D position coaches to instruct the ingame adjustments 

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I really hope McD calls the plays. Thus far, he has been able to shield himself from much criticism via Fraizer. This will put him front and center. 

 

I suspect this will make or break his tenure with the Bills. We are about to find out how good he is. That's a good thing. 

100% agree!!!

[somnus00]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

He hasn't. He has literally been one of the best in the league.

I agree with you that he's been one of the best in the league lately (13 seconds aside). I'm not a McDermott hater. As I said, he had issues in the past with game management. He has improved,  from year to year, into one of the better game day coaches.

 

What I'm saying, is that I'm concerned he will regress if he has to focus on defensive play-calling. I don't see how that concern would be be controversial. I'm not trying to give a hot take or be argumentative.

[Ponch]

16 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I wouldn't mind seeing McD get demoted to DC. Bring in someone like Brian Callahan OC for Cinci or Ben Johnson OC for Lions. 

 

I would prefer Johnson. He is innovative, creative, and very smart. Think he would enhance Allen and others game. 

What does that have to do with the DC? Are you suggesting McD becomes the DC and one of these guys takes over as HC? 

[snamsnoops]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan and Dick Jauron movement? Kidding 😂

What you say about Bum Phillips,,, I'm kidding but what about Wade???!!!

 

[MJS]

38 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

I agree with you that he's been one of the best in the league lately (13 seconds aside). I'm not a McDermott hater. As I said, he had issues in the past with game management. He has improved,  from year to year, into one of the better game day coaches.

 

What I'm saying, is that I'm concerned he will regress if he has to focus on defensive play-calling. I don't see how that concern would be be controversial. I'm not trying to give a hot take or be argumentative.

It's just a commonly held misconception. Some believe McDermott is bad at game management. There was an analysis posted here awhile ago that refuted that and showed that he is one of the best in just about every category besides challenges.

10 hours ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

Holcomb was hired a month before Leslie was fired. So the move was in the works for a while. Unclear why Sean waited until there were no other DC jobs left for Leslie to take. Whether you wanted Leslie gone or not, the man deserved more respect than that. He dedicated 6 years of his life for this team, consistently had a top 5 D, was highly respected and loved by every player on that team. Wonder how this board would feel about Leslie if the Special teams coordinator got the right call in on the :13 squibb kick and we won the game. Or if our O against the Bengals put up more than 10 points.

It was Leslie's decision to take a year off. Besides, his contract was up.

[PBF81]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Okay let's play a game... how many of the Bills current Bills front office staff, except for Brandon Beane have worked for the Panthers? I'll give you a clue... it's a very round number. 

 

It's more on the coaching side (I make it 6/18 which is a third).

 

 

Well, Beane's pretty big. wouldn't you say.  The original argument there is that the best possible candidate for GM came from Carolina, and you can research their FO moves prior to that time, as I did before becoming unimpressed.  

 

On the coaching side, I have no idea, but Al Holcomb and Ken Dorsey are two, after that does it matter.  I know that there have been others but those at the moment are the two biggest.  It all flows downhill from them.  How many of the other 18 really contribute to ... for example, "13 Seconds" tactics.  (rhetorical)  

 

I was being partially facetious, I'm pretty sure you know that, but let's wait and see who else comes from there.  That well must be close to dry by now.   

 

Also I'm pretty sure that the number of people in our organization that came from the Panthers, who've been anything but impressive since 2011 when McD began working there.  .... 8 of 12 losing seasons, three times getting ousted early in the playoffs, ... at least McD's consistent in coaching his teams in the playoffs, and one loss in the Super Bowl in a season in which they posted the 6th scoring D on a relatively soft schedule of ranked offenses.  

 

Seems as if we got exactly what Carolina was, a team incapable of performing in the playoffs ... and that's with Allen at QB.  

 

It's hardly as if we went to KC after they won the SB twice to pilfer staff.  It's the opposite.  It's a sign of McD not being able to step out of his comfort zone.  .... not good.  

 

 

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, Ponch said:

What does that have to do with the DC? Are you suggesting McD becomes the DC and one of these guys takes over as HC? 

In a perfect world yes. 

8 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

he needs to be a HC or DC.  right now, he seems better as a DC.  perhaps an Assist HC can take over game day management.  

I like this train of thought. However, I think Coach McD has run it's course. The best way to find out is to let him call the D. 

 

If he's successful than he probably gets added run. If not, maybe the needed change will be quicker. 

 

It's a win win for the fans. 

[PBF81]

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Okay let's play a game... how many of the Bills current Bills front office staff, except for Brandon Beane have worked for the Panthers? I'll give you a clue... it's a very round number. 

 

It's more on the coaching side (I make it 6/18 which is a third).

 

BTW, the number of all but useless and mostly overpriced players from Carolina brought here is hardly hyperbole.  

 

 

[Billzgobowlin]

Bobby Babich as DC and Al Holcomb as LB coach/Asst HC

17 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

he needs to be a HC or DC.  right now, he seems better as a DC.  perhaps an Assist HC can take over game day management.  

This is silly.  McDerm has taken us to the playoffs all but one year and the first was without Allen.  He is an elite coach that for some reason people fixate on flaws.  There is no coach in the league I would rather have. 

[The Jokeman]

On 3/7/2023 at 10:22 PM, BigAl2526 said:

Are the Bills moving on from Frazier, or are they going to use an interim arrangement in hopes that he returns to the coordinator position after a one year hiatus. If it is the latter, you can pretty much forget about hiring somebody from the outside.

In one of the articles I read it mentioned if he returned it may not be with the Bills so to me it says we're letting him free to explore options. While it's not an official firing it is in so many words. 

[Fleezoid]

[Alphadawg7]

14 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I really hope McD calls the plays. Thus far, he has been able to shield himself from much criticism via Fraizer. This will put him front and center. 

 

I suspect this will make or break his tenure with the Bills. We are about to find out how good he is. That's a good thing. 

 

I don't think it's fair thought to say McD has used Frazier to shield himself though.  The one thing about McD is that he doesn't publicly throw people under the bus and keeps it all in house.  If you want to say some fans defend McD by assigning more complaints to Frazier, that is fine, but McD himself has never used anyone as a shield for himself IMHO.  

 

For example, McD was reportedly screaming when he saw the DB's ten yards off the LOS on 3rd and 4 before the snap (as we all were).  This was a critical play, so much so it was even referenced by Beane in the end of year presser.  But McD didn't come out and cite that and blame the play call or anything.  It is one of the reasons McD is so respected amongst the players and staff, he doesn't air things out in the media.  

 

I do agree, there will be a lot more responsibility this year in how the defense performs on McD's shoulders though.  He is going to face potential scrutiny both as a HC and DC now and there will be more pressure on him.

 

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

To an extent I agree in the sense that I think bringing in a new coordinator would mean if the defense struggled in 2023 there would be the inbuilt first year DC excuse that we have seen some make for Dorsey this year. As for how good is Sean McDermott, I think we know that. Anyone who doesn't think he is a very good coach and one of the best defensive minds in the NFL really isn't worth listening to. But as for the question is this regime - McDermott and Beane combined - the one to get the Bills over the hump to win a Championship 2023 is a critical juncture. I don't want any inbuilt excuses I want them to put their best effort forward (hopefully be a bit luckier with injuries than we were in 2022) and see how the chips fall then evaluate the future of the regime on that basis after the season. 

 

Agree on McD and this.  I think its pretty obvious McD is a good coach based on his accomplishments going back to his first year here, and his defensive accumen is also well established as one of the top defensive minds in the league right now.  

 

This is definitely IMHO the most critical offseason for Beane as a GM since facing drafting the right QB when it was clear we going to take a QB early in 2018 and traded assets to be in position to do that both before and during the draft.  He doesn't have the war chest he has had in previous years between cap space and draft assets.  We no longer have a rookie contract at QB, we draft late every round, have no extra picks of value, and entered the offseason well over the cap with several key starters set to hit free agency.  He planned ahead for this and built in the flexibility into the contracts he gave out to be able to navigate this offseason.  However, there is little room for error given the state of the competition around us.

 

Jets seem like they will land Rodgers, isntantly making them a bigger threat to the AFCE title.  Miami is still formidable, and could still even upgrade further at QB.  KC is still KC, and Bengals have a lot more cap space to be bigger free agent players this offseason than us.  Then there are teams like Jax that are on the rise and even before the offseason begins are getting Calvin Ridley into their offseason next year now that he is back from suspension.  

 

Just means Beane really needs to make the right moves in free agency and how he uses his money, and then we need to also get relevant contributions this year from our draft class much like KC did last year.  If we can do that, we will absolutely remain one of the top SB contenders in the league, but that margin of error is tighter this year than its ever been.