Has Sean McDermott's Bills met your personal expectations over the last four season?

[PrimeTime101]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:44 PM, Mike in Horseheads said:

Are you ever going to stop your personal vendetta against the guy?

I think it is a fair question to ask at this point.. And I am by no means a hater of McD.

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I think it is a fair question to ask at this point.. And I am by no means a hater of McD.

 

My only problem with the question is that everyone's expectations are different.  People simply wanting entertaining football, as some have even said as a standard, will be satisfied.  Those of us that sat in the cold for the '90s playoff games walking into the games expecting to win them all, and we did, at home, have a different expectation, one that's at least as lofty as it was back then.  Allen > Kelly.  To whom more is given, more is expected.  

 

A better question would be, Has McDermott done what he's said he would do?  

 

McD's expectations were to have won a Championship by now as well.  So were mine given Allen.  In fact, I dare say, or perhaps ask, how many people responding in this poll as the beginning of the season had the expectation of winning it all this year prior to the season starting?  Those people, unless they answered "fell short," aren't being honest.  

 

My question would be, ... Have McD & Beane left the team on the field this coming season consistent with their own rhetoric and narratives when they started here, or have they fallen short?  If short, then why.  

 

[PrimeTime101]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

My only problem with the question is that everyone's expectations are different.  People simply wanting entertaining football, as some have even said as a standard, will be satisfied.  Those of us that sat in the cold for the '90s playoff games walking into the games expecting to win them all, and we did, at home, have a different expectation, one that's at least as lofty as it was back then.  Allen > Kelly.  To whom more is given, more is expected.  

 

A better question would be, Has McDermott done what he's said he would do?  

 

McD's expectations were to have won a Championship by now as well.  So were mine given Allen.  In fact, I dare say, or perhaps ask, how many people responding in this poll as the beginning of the season had the expectation of winning it all this year prior to the season starting?  Those people, unless they answered "fell short," aren't being honest.  

 

My question would be, ... Have McD & Beane left the team on the field this coming season consistent with their own rhetoric and narratives when they started here, or have they fallen short?  If short, then why.  

 

So what? so we are all individuals with right to different opinions.

 

I think people are judging expectations more of what we do in the playoffs than getting there. 

 

13 seconds... I am over it but that says enough that we should of won at least 1 AFCC

 

But different people different expectations different answer. so what!  

[Einstein]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:26 PM, LeGOATski said:

Yep. I wanna watch quality football. Playoffs every year. Consistently contending.

 

Would you trade 3 upcoming losing seasons, for 1 Super Bowl win next year?

[Beast]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

Would you trade 3 upcoming losing seasons, for 1 Super Bowl win next year?

Fairytale time?

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

My only problem with the question is that everyone's expectations are different

This is the whole point.  Somewhere between 99.99% and 100% of the people posting on TBD are posting praise or criticisms from their own personal set of expectations.  No one is ever persuading anybody with a different set of expectations on either what they have witnessed happening or expect to happen next.  I ran the poll because I did not really know the split.  And its pretty even, with nothing approaching a majority.  So it is perfectly reasonable and should be expected for more people to disagree with whatever view you have on almost any Bills subject than to agree with you.  The one thing everyone can control is to not act like their own personal expectations are the only set that is reasonable. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Chaos

[Chaos]

28 minutes ago, Beast said:

Fairytale time?

Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh have had lengthy careers on the principle that one is enough.  

[LeGOATski]

55 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Would you trade 3 upcoming losing seasons, for 1 Super Bowl win next year?

No, I'll take continuous winning seasons and a SB

[ChasBB]

I didn't vote, but I would have if there was a 4th choice that read "He exceeded my expectations for three of past four seasons, but fell short of my expectations this past season"

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So what? so we are all individuals with right to different opinions.

 

I think people are judging expectations more of what we do in the playoffs than getting there. 

 

13 seconds... I am over it but that says enough that we should of won at least 1 AFCC

 

But different people different expectations different answer. so what!  

 

To address your "So What?" ... 

 

That then depends upon what the purpose of posing the question was.  Was it merely to stir up dissent amongst posters?  Because as I see it, that's about all that it's done.  

 

You're absolutely correct, ... 

Quote

we are all individuals with right to different opinions.

 

... which was at the root of my point.  So we agree there.  

 

And yes, also at the heart of my implications is exactly what else you said .... 

Quote

 I think people are judging expectations more of what we do in the playoffs than getting there. 

 

Well, exactly, which again, feeds into my statement as well.  You seem to be unintentionally validating what I said.  

 

So allow me to ask, is it reasonable to base our expectations more on "what we do in the playoffs than getting there," or not?  

 

Seems to me that for someone answering no, they're likely to be a lot more approving as to whether or not McD has met their expectations, no?  

 

Visa versa as well, for someone answering yes, that playoff performance means more, doesn't it stand to reason that they're more likely to claim that McD has not met their expectations?   Unless of course being routinely outplayed and ousted in them is their specific expectation that is.  

 

I'm a little confused as to the point of your response.   

 

 

 

 

[PBF81]

38 minutes ago, Chaos said:

This is the whole point.  Somewhere between 99.99% and 100% of the people posting on TBD are posting praise or criticisms from their own personal set of expectations.  No one is ever persuading anybody with a different set of expectations on either what they have witnessed happening or expect to happen next.  I ran the poll because I did not really know the split.  And its pretty even, with nothing approaching a majority.  So it is perfectly reasonable and should be expected for more people to disagree with whatever view you have on almost any Bills subject than to agree with you.  The one thing everyone can control is to not act like their own personal expectations are the only set that is reasonable. 

 

Why not simply have asked "What were your expectations for the team to date under McDermott as head coach?"  

 

A.  I expected to merely regularly win the division. 

B.  I expected to make the playoffs every season, but not to advance much in them.  

C.  I expected us to challenge for AFC Champions regularly.  

D.  I expected us to have won a Super Bowl/Championship by now.  

E.  I expected an up-and-down campaign with little if any consistency or continuity.  

F.  I had no expectations of even making the playoffs regularly.  

 

Or add in whatever other option you wanted.  That would tell you exactly what peoples' expectations were from McDermott, rather than posing the question with the backdrop that McD has either fulfilled or not fulfilled them, which necessarily will give you false responses by the supporters of McD.  Think about it, someone that had greater expectations, but that supports McD thinking that he's not the reason for our problems, something difficult to believe, is likely to answer in favor of McD.  There are many divisions amongst fans here with some complexities.  Some support McD, Beane, Dorsey, and Frasier (now gone I realize, and not likely to return ever imo).  Some support McD but not Beane.  Some support one or the other or both Coordinators but not McD.  Some support McD but not one or both Coordinators.  Some Support Beane but not McD.  

 

Anyway, the question as I posed it takes a good part of that bias from McD apologists out of the mix.  I think you'd have gotten more honest and therefore accurate answers by asking the question that way.  

 

That's all I'm saying.  Personally I don't care, it's not like I have an axe to grind or a dog in the fight as it were.  I realize that my opinions mean nothing in the grand scheme.  I'm just pissing into the wind like everyone else here.  LOL  

It can be a fun distraction to discuss, with people that enjoy discussing.  Some take this stuff way too seriously in their lives.  : / 

 

 

 

 

[Chaos]

23 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Why not simply have asked "What were your expectations for the team to date under McDermott as head coach?"  

 

A.  I expected to merely regularly win the division. 

B.  I expected to make the playoffs every season, but not to advance much in them.  

C.  I expected us to challenge for AFC Champions regularly.  

D.  I expected us to have won a Super Bowl/Championship by now.  

E.  I expected an up-and-down campaign with little if any consistency or continuity.  

F.  I had no expectations of even making the playoffs regularly.  

 

Or add in whatever other option you wanted.  That would tell you exactly what peoples' expectations were from McDermott, rather than posing the question with the backdrop that McD has either fulfilled or not fulfilled them, which necessarily will give you false responses by the supporters of McD.  Think about it, someone that had greater expectations, but that supports McD thinking that he's not the reason for our problems, something difficult to believe, is likely to answer in favor of McD.  There are many divisions amongst fans here with some complexities.  Some support McD, Beane, Dorsey, and Frasier (now gone I realize, and not likely to return ever imo).  Some support McD but not Beane.  Some support one or the other or both Coordinators but not McD.  Some support McD but not one or both Coordinators.  Some Support Beane but not McD.  

 

Anyway, the question as I posed it takes a good part of that bias from McD apologists out of the mix.  I think you'd have gotten more honest and therefore accurate answers by asking the question that way.  

 

That's all I'm saying.  Personally I don't care, it's not like I have an axe to grind or a dog in the fight as it were.  I realize that my opinions mean nothing in the grand scheme.  I'm just pissing into the wind like everyone else here.  LOL  

It can be a fun distraction to discuss, with people that enjoy discussing.  Some take this stuff way too seriously in their lives.  : / 

 

 

 

 

You don't understand the purpose, and I can't explain it differently than before. Don't take it personal. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Would you trade 3 upcoming losing seasons, for 1 Super Bowl win next year?

 

Given the team and leadership we now have?  ... in a NY second.  

 

I could die a happy man with just one Championship.  More would be great, none is unacceptable.  LOL  

 

They've had 6 seasons (McD) and 5 seasons (Beane) to get us to a Super Bowl, something that our team with a notably lesser QB did four straight years, and they've failed.  

 

Now we've got a ton of holes, Miami and the Jets, of all teams, breathing up our ass and with already splitting with them with a superior team this past season, and of course the team that simply won't die, the Pats, even if they will hover around .500 and fail to make the playoffs for the foreseeable future, they're still a threat to take a regular season game.  

 

I don't know how much Pegula cares about optimizing the performance of this team given the talent that we do have, but depending upon how this coming season goes, I can envision changes in coaching and management ahead.  

 

I don't think we'll have any losing seasons in the near future, I can't even envision that with Allen at QB, but I can see us not winning the division, going in as a Wild Card, and of course our playoff performance to date raises serious questions as to whether McD is even capable of winning the three or more likely four games in the playoffs required to win it all.  The failures in coaching prowess in those games have not been merely simple miscues, they've been cataclysmic oversights taht fall well into the "WTF was he thinking" category.  Unless it's a trash QB, our defense doesn't even play well when we win, and we're likely losing Edmunds and Poyer and who knows who else.  

 

If we're even close to the #1 D in the regular season this forthcoming season I'll be thoroughly impressed with McD given the current lack of talent on the unit should Edmunds and Poyer leave, and barring some completely unexpected major moves on D.  Those are two huge losses.  I wouldn't pay huge money to keep either for reasons, but the dropoff from them to the "next man up" in both cases is sizeable.  I mean who steps in for Edmunds?  This talk of Bernard taking his place is laughable, and he's arguably the "best option."  

 

 

11 minutes ago, Chaos said:

You don't understand the purpose, and I can't explain it differently than before. Don't take it personal. 

 

Fair enough, apparently not.  Likewise, I never mean anything personally.  Always trying to engage.  

[Dopey]

Why try to make this more complicated than what it is? Simple poll that gave me a better feeling about fans here on TBD. Why? The number of voters who are disappointed or have not had their expectations met are outnumbered by a 2:1 margin. I always felt it was a minority, no matter how vocal. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Dopey

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Would you trade 3 upcoming losing seasons, for 1 Super Bowl win next year?

 

BTW, Levy immediately went downhill after Polian was fired.  Everyone knows that the reason for our success back then had far more to do with Polian than with Levy.  We went to one more Super Bowl on Polian's residual talent, a roster that he himself described as a special collection of players.  After that fourth Super Bowl Levy only won the division once in the next and his last four years here.  In that season we lost in the Divisional round.  We posted only two of four winning seasons and went 1-3 in those playoffs.  We got hammered by the O'Donnell-led Steelers and lost to the Brunnell-led Jags to end our playoffs those two seasons.  

 

Levy, after going 49-15 (.766) to bring us to the Super Bowl in those four regular seasons, then went 33-31 (.516) in the next and his last four.  

 

I'm expecting a similar although not quite as drastic trend here now.  Beane is nowhere close to Polian in terms of drafting.  We'll see how McD does this season.  Beane's rookie classes have produced next to nothing in their rookie years.  Beane has said that we're not doing anything significant in free agency and we have little room to do much there.  So we're essentially taking this team into next season.  Will the Jets and/or Fins improve?  The Pats?  Will Jones make a big leap in his third season like some other QBs and like Allen did?  We don't know yet.  

 

In looking at our current roster defensively, if we had to take that into this regular season without Poyer, with White having played poorly upon his return thus far, with Edmunds gone and only Milano as a starting quality LB in there, with no proven pass-rushers on the DL w/o Von Miller in the lineup, and with Von Miller unlikely to ever return to anything close to what he was, I'm more than a little concerned.  I can easily see us falling well into the average range defensively, McD's forte`.  

 

It's unwise to expect much from a rookie WR drafted where we'll have access.  Singletary may be gone too, and he's our best all-around RB.  We'll see how Cook pans out I suppose, but our use of RBs is suspect as well.  Our offense won't be "as good" if our defense doesn't play as it has.  

 

One of the quite relevant things that I haven't seen anyone discuss here is turnovers.  

 

This past season with our #2 D we had 27 Takeaways to go with out 27 Giveaways.  

Last season and our #1 D, we had 30 Takeaways to pair with our 22 Giveaways.  

 

In the playoffs however, this past postseason we had only 2 Takeaways, both against Miami.  None against Cinci.  

Last year, 2021, we also had 2 Takeaways, both against NE, all four of those were INTs against Thompson and Jones.  

 

The point, we rely heavily on turnovers/takeaways, but more importantly, the defensive pressure that accompanies them, which seems to be absent against the better teams (i.e., teams with average or better QBs unlike Thompson or Jones) in the playoffs.  

 

 

[Ga boy]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

My only problem with the question is that everyone's expectations are different.  People simply wanting entertaining football, as some have even said as a standard, will be satisfied.  Those of us that sat in the cold for the '90s playoff games walking into the games expecting to win them all, and we did, at home, have a different expectation, one that's at least as lofty as it was back then.  Allen > Kelly.  To whom more is given, more is expected.  

 

A better question would be, Has McDermott done what he's said he would do?  

 

McD's expectations were to have won a Championship by now as well.  So were mine given Allen.  In fact, I dare say, or perhaps ask, how many people responding in this poll as the beginning of the season had the expectation of winning it all this year prior to the season starting?  Those people, unless they answered "fell short," aren't being honest.  

 

My question would be, ... Have McD & Beane left the team on the field this coming season consistent with their own rhetoric and narratives when they started here, or have they fallen short?  If short, then why.  

 

JK12’s teams > JA17’s teams.  What’s amazing about Allen is he has won a lot with a team that would be maybe 7 wins without him.  That’s the brutal facts.  

[SinceThe70s]

I can't answer this poll. I had no expectations for Sean when he got hired - he was pretty much an unknown to me.  I had hope he'd be a part of turning the franchise around and from that perspective he's succeeded. 

 

This past year was the first season hope turned into expectation for me. And the team collectively fell short. Sean owns a part of that - but I'm in the camp that thinks the unusual circumstances the team faced played a bigger role. Doesn't mean I'm dismissing his part in 13 seconds - he owns most of that.

 

 

 

 

[gobills404]

He’s FAR exceeded the expectations I had 4 years ago, but now those expectations have changed.

Edited March 5, 2023 by gobills404

[Dopey]

30 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

JK12’s teams > JA17’s teams.  What’s amazing about Allen is he has won a lot with a team that would be maybe 7 wins without him.  That’s the brutal facts.  

A big reason that team was better was Kelly himself.

Can you name a team who loses a top 3 qb who wouldn’t see a big drop off in wins? One of the dumbest statements ever.  It’s not like we’re lucky he fell in our lap. We traded up to draft him and we developed him. He wasn’t the Josh you know now when he came out of college. 

[PBF81]

44 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

JK12’s teams > JA17’s teams.  What’s amazing about Allen is he has won a lot with a team that would be maybe 7 wins without him.  That’s the brutal facts.  

 

MUCH greater!  Polian >>> Beane too.  In fact, IMO Beane's among the less impressive of our GMs over the years, and that's saying something.  

 

Can you imagine Allen behind the OL of Ballard, Ritcher, Hull, and Woolford?!  OMG ...

 

I even threw out the OL of Wood, Levitre, Peters, and a few others the other day.  I think that this is the worst OL we've had since the pre-Kelly days.