Rip the BandAid off

[IndyMark]

4 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

A few observations/thoughts on the above:

 

(a) Not sure Hamlin will be back, Hyde is an essential keep;

 

(b) Please define "huge" on the Oliver trade.  If we get a 5th for Oliver we should all dance a jig, on the spot. He has is not nearly as revered for other teams as he is here with a select group.  The key with his trade is to dump the goofy and nightmare-ish cap hit of $10m+. That savings in and of itself fills us about 3 holes on the squad and NO it does not create a hole, Ed is replaceable with a day 3 pick or street free agent.  

 

(c) Agree on cutting McKenzie, that really should have been done last year.

 

(d) I am not familiar with "mild" restructures; it is not worth the effort in kicking the can down the road for a mild benefit. Not sure that is a thing.

 

(e) Spencer Brown will not be Beane's second Wyatt Teller; Brown will be on the squad for a while. Beane learned a lesson.

 

(f) Hines should be restructured and prioritized as he is so versatile, particularly in Dorsey's scheme or intended scheme.

[T master]

7 hours ago, Herb Nightly said:

Those of you pushing for an Oliver trade.....your,e talking about how he isn't worth the salary so why would another team want him?

 

They may have the money to pay him & sign him to a extension which is money right now that the Bills could use to get under the cap & may find the same type of player in the draft or FA that could fill his spot plus they may be able to get a draft pick with the trade which could wind up to be a highly motivated 3rd or 4th round pick  .

 

If it was me i wouldn't mind keeping him but he will demand more money than matches his output but to free up that cap room could be huge for signing others including signing & paying the draft class & UDFA's . 

 

 

[KOKBILLS]

9 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do think trading Oliver and Epenesa is absolutely the right thing to do now. I don't think they'll get much for AJ...Maybe a 5th? But I don't care. Do it...

[nosejob]

9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Hamlin won't be back any time soon!! 

I have a hard time thinking any doctor will tell him ...yeah you can go be an NFL safety. He can probably make hay with a foundation, ironically.

[philholbroo]

10 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would like to keep hyde, don't want two inexperienced guys back there. doubt hamlin is coming back, especially for 2023

Ed would be ok if it works out, but then they'll be even more tempted to draft dl early or have to sign a replacment for close to his cost.

Epenesa, sure

Morse-no, but he may end up retiring with any more health problems though. He is the leader of the ol, need his presence for at least 1 more year.

 

Agree with restructures and cuts for sure.

[BillsFanForever19]

11 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

We're losing Jordan Poyer already and Damar Hamlin is no guarantee to return this season and you want to trade Micah? That's madness.

 

Down a LG and needing upgrades at RG and RT? Let's create a hole at Center too.

 

Reggie Gilliam? Reward a guy for working hard and doing things the right way and then ask him to restructure/cut him a year later, even though he's performed well. Yeah, that's a great message to send to the locker room.

 

And everyone's all gung ho on moving Ed Oliver. But he was performing rather well when Von Miller was in and he was getting help from better DE play. Moving on from him would leave us with just Daquan Jones and Tim Settle. Whatever we get for him would have to be used to get a Starter to replace him.

 

I don't understand how fans are looking at the team needing upgrades while also needing to fill 24 holes from Free Agents leaving and think "let's create more holes elsewhere".

Edited March 2, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Big Blitz]

You can package our first and Oliver and move up into the top 20 and get a potential elite WR.  
 

Maybe even score that team's 5th or 6th RD pick to.  

[Albany,n.y.]

13 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't quit your day job.  Those trades aren't reasonable.  I wouldn't count on Hamlin being back.  Oliver on the 5th year option wouldn't get much in return, Epenesa wouldn't be worth more than a 6th, Morse is worth more to the Bills than a 5th, which is about all his value is.  The only place to lock Brown in is on the bench.  

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

You can package our first and Oliver and move up into the top 20 and get a potential elite WR.  
 

Maybe even score that team's 5th or 6th RD pick to.  

 

Under a 10 million dollar 1 year deal? I don't think so.

 

12 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Oliver on the 5th year option wouldn't get much in return, 

 

Exactly. And a 10 million dollar cap hit on that one year. I think fans are really over exaggerating the amount of return he'd get us. Wouldn't be enough to even replace him with a player of his caliber. So why do it?

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

You can package our first and Oliver and move up into the top 20 and get a potential elite WR.  
 

Maybe even score that team's 5th or 6th RD pick to.  

I’m not sure there is an elite receiver in this draft

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Under a 10 million dollar 1 year deal? I don't think so.

 

 

Exactly. And a 10 million dollar cap hit on that one year. I think fans are really over exaggerating the amount of return he'd get us. Wouldn't be enough to even replace him with a player of his caliber. So why do it?

You would do it if you didn’t have any intention of resigning him, which is a possibility
 

Ed Olivers production can be replaced lt would also free up 10 million on our Which we could use to sign a less expensive player. Sheldon Rankins comes to mind.

Edited March 2, 2023 by John from Riverside

[ProcessTruster]

Bills have an SB calibre roster.  Let's go have a solid draft, sign our own, move some guys up, add some FAs and then just f ing play it back.   and hope a half a dozen key starters don't go down for the season this time 

 

 Nothing has changed.   Go Bills. 

[RyanC883]

23 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.  I'd keep Hyde.  While Hamlin may be back, I'm not sure what condition he will be in.  Poyer is likely gone (freeing up cap space), and I'd want one vet back.  So I'd keep Hyde, draft or FA another safety.  

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room.  I agree.  I think he will get a 2nd rounder for us.  I think someone will overpay and believe he will be impactful.  Perhaps he would be great in Philly or Wash?   

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.    Would rather try to trade Basham I think.  But I think I'd try to trade one of them.  That said, both are on rookie contracts, so I'd let training camp play out first.  

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)  I'm actually ok with this.  Many won't be.  But Bottinger can play center, and the center/guard class looks good this year.  

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)  I would not cut, he's cheap and can create a mismatch.  This is an OC problem, IMO.  

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure.  Totally agree.  

Tre White Mild restructure  Totally agree.  

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)  Not sure he will be great one day, but if we can add a cheap year to the end of his rookie deal I'm all for it.  

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year.  We don't use him really, so I'd either make him very cheap, trade, or cut (if no dead cap).  Draft an actual 3 down back in mold of Ingram.  We could have an Ingram/Kamara type backfield with the rookie and Cook.  

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)  I'd be fine cutting depending on the draft.  

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft.  I'd restructure here. As you said, nice player.  If won't restructure, then would have to trade/cut.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure why so many dinged you here.  We have a lot of work to do this offseason to get JA talent for next year and other years.  That means impactful FAs and young guys.  I've put my comments in bold above.  

 

 

12 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

We're losing Jordan Poyer already and Damar Hamlin is no guarantee to return this season and you want to trade Micah? That's madness.

 

Down a LG and needing upgrades at RG and RT? Let's create a hole at Center too.

 

Reggie Gilliam? Reward a guy for working hard and doing things the right way and then ask him to restructure/cut him a year later, even though he's performed well. Yeah, that's a great message to send to the locker room.

 

And everyone's all gung ho on moving Ed Oliver. But he was performing rather well when Von Miller was in and he was getting help from better DE play. Moving on from him would leave us with just Daquan Jones and Tim Settle. Whatever we get for him would have to be used to get a Starter to replace him.

 

I don't understand how fans are looking at the team needing upgrades while also needing to fill 24 holes from Free Agents leaving and think "let's create more holes elsewhere".

 

I get your point, but I think the idea of an exercise like this is not to create more holes, but see where we can cut and fill for less in the draft or FA and get at least equal production (Oliver, perhaps Morse), while freeing up money to fill other holes that also exist (example: trade Oliver, get a replacement in the draft or FA at less cost, and then get a OL or WR upgrade).  But your right, if they mess this up, it creates more holes.  

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

McKenzie is also  a complete spaz and has 0 football acumen on the field. He was responsible for at least 5 turnovers this season. That’s incredibly awful for someone with the amount of touches/targets he got this season.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

39 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Remember the game well.… He’s comes a clown off the field as well in his interviews… 

 

 

Not being able to trust the slot receiver was one of the biggest pivot points of the season.  It really took Allen off schedule after the bye.   We tend to remember the early part of the season as when the Bills were playing their best........but the Miami and KC games both should have been blowouts.    They barely escaped 1-1.    

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

McKenzie is also  a complete spaz and has 0 football acumen on the field. He was responsible for at least 5 turnovers this season. That’s incredibly awful for someone with the amount of touches/targets he got this season.

 

 He did cough it up a bunch, but I was comparing him with a kick returner (Hines) who isn't part of any Offense.

[Unforgiven]

Tank next season imho.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Unforgiven said:

Tank next season imho.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion
Sometimes you should just keep it to yourself