Rip the BandAid off

[DrDawkinstein]

Rip the bandaid off, @SDS and just shut down the board.

[Bangarang]

Hamlin is not a good football player. If your plan is to replace Hyde with him then that's just stupid. 

 

I also love how you just throw out random draft compensation for our players. "Epenesa sucks, but someone will give us a 4th for him surely." 

 

I hate the offseason. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Bangarang

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Oliver has been okay, a 5/10. He flashes here and there, and is steady most other times.

 

Beane said there is more meat on the bone for growth. Problem is, that should have happened this year. Because now he's on a 5th year option, and if you're not going to extend him, you don't get the $10.5M in cap space. I think a decent FA DT could replace his production, and there is no getting around his size, it limits him. 

 

If he improves this season, then you're right back to a dilemma about whether to hand him a 2nd contract. Yet another defensive player getting a 2nd contract. 

 

I would keep Epenesa just so that the team is not tempted to take another draft asset (especially R1, R2, R3) and pour it into the defensive line.  

 

This team has 6 picks right now with needs all over the offensive line starter and depth, WR, S, LB, we're weak at backup QB, there is no #2 TE on this team.  

 

 

 

That's definitely the point many aren't addressing.  Obviously our FO is aware, but we have no DT's locked up past this year.  Best case scenario, Oliver lives up to his 10.5M cap hit and then we can't afford him.. worst case, he stays inconsistent and we don't want to find money for him.  Either way, I can't believe this staff truly sees a path for Ed in Buffalo past '23... and if that's the case, what are we doing here? 

[Rc2catch]

10 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I tend to trust, somewhat, what the guys over at Cover 1 say... and they seem to think, based on talking to others in different markets, that Oliver brings back a Day 2 pick and a Day 3 pick. 

 

I'd trade him for simply a 4th, but he does seem to have some value. 

The OP said Oliver would get a huge trade. As of right now I would consider him a one year rental for someone. Almost half the teams are trying to shed some salary. Start looking at teams with cap space and it’s a lot of our rivals and teams that don’t need a DT. 

[Virgil]

Cut Josh.  Problem solved

[Draconator]

Man, I start drinking REALLY EARLY seeing threads like this...

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Rc2catch said:

The OP said Oliver would get a huge trade. As of right now I would consider him a one year rental for someone. Almost half the teams are trying to shed some salary. Start looking at teams with cap space and it’s a lot of our rivals and teams that don’t need a DT. 

 

Guess it's subjective... if we can get a 2 and 5, I'd say that's huge.  Even a 3 and 6, to me is a huge trade.  Especially given we only have 6 picks.  

 

However, a RD1 pick is not happening, for sure.. and maybe all we get is a 4th, I have no idea... but people who have asked around seem to believe Ed has legitimate value. 

[PBF81]

How are you arriving at all of these things teams are going to throw at us for players in the last year of their contracts, injured aged players, and otherwise simply suck.  (Epenesa)  

 

I mean why not throw in a fruit basket for another 2nd or 3rd-round pick from some team as well.  

 

 

9 minutes ago, Draconator said:

Man, I start drinking REALLY EARLY seeing threads like this...

 

I'm tellin' ya!  😆 

 

 

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

We're cutting out best OL when we're in desperate need of OL help? I'm not sure I get the logic there.

 

Logic?  Regarding the OL?  

 

I think that's in McD's and Beane's contracts, they're not allowed to apply logic when planning ...,  LOL @ "planning," for the OL.  It's probably in there that they're not allowed to devote more than 10% of team resources towards the OL, as it's unnecessary.  We have Allen.  I don't even know why we have any RBs on the roster.  We have Allen.  

 

AND, as a bonus, as soon as Allen works on his speed slightly, and can catch his own passes, WRs and TEs will become obsolete for us as well.  Just think about it!  

 

Then we can draft all of the DTs, DEs, LBs, and DBs that we want to.  McD's and Beane's idea of heaven.  

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by PBF81

[L Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree with the idea but the execution you detail is flawed.  Oliver won't get a huge trade, he's just about a bust for his draft position.   Maybe we get a 3rd?  2nd if someone loves him?  Epenesa probably gets us....nothing.   jag.

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Curious...do you, or any of the other people who think AJE contributed nothing realize that he had 6.5 sacks this year in a part time role?

 

I don't think we should trade Hyde, if Poyer isn't back, we will need the veteran play of Hyde back there to keep things stable.  Hamlin was not good in coverage even though he did contribute as a tackler.  

 

I am on board with trading Oliver, I don't think they can or should pay him next year.  He is a very streaky player and seems dependent on the guys around him to succeed and I don't like paying big contracts to guys who struggle to impact the game on their own.

 

Mitch I think could be cut because they can save quite a bit cutting him.  Not sure a concussion prone center has much trade value.  And I still wouldn't rule out retiring either after more concussion issues and seeing Hamlin situation on the field.  Josh Allen mentioned retirement as something some were considering after that tragedy on the field, about how it put some things into a different perspective.  He didn't name anyone specific, but Morse seems like he could be one of those guys.

 

1 hour ago, Iraq Vet said:

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

Not sure who they restructure, or how many.  I think anyone is candidate, including Josh Allen who I think can give them the biggest savings in a single restructure.

 

1 hour ago, Iraq Vet said:

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

I can see both as cut candidates for cap reasons.  But the team does really like both these guys, and McKenzie comes off the books next year.  So not sure these guys get cut or not, but I can see them both staying or leaving.  I really like McKenzie, he is fun and good for the team and locker room.  But if he is back this year, his role needs to revert back that of a gadget player like 4th or 5th on the depth chart.  We someone less one dimensional who can contribute better from the slot.  

[Success]

I don't think we'll see anything even close to this drastic.

 

I could see maybe 1 trade; my guess would be Oliver, but like a lot of players, I think the Bills decision-makers see him differently than a lot of fans do. He had a few dominant games, and a few where he disappeared, but the talent is there.  Almost reminds me of when we had Mario Williams.  

 

This was the best team in the league for some stretches of the '22 season.  Injuries & emotion caught up w/ the team, and they certainly laid an egg at the end - but it's not like it's a team that needs a huge overhaul.

 

They'll do some restructuring for sure.  But I just don't think we'll see a lot of trades to try to accumulate mid to late round picks. 

 

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So a couple of things about Brown.  First, he has only played 2 years so he can't get a new deal.  Second, what has he shown that would make you want to extend him?  Played in like half of the games last year, played terrible (definitely regressed) this year.  Being tall and having a "mean streak" (whatever that means) does not mean he should get an extension

[MPT]

1 hour ago, Bob Jones said:

To the OP: Just curious...how do you "restructure" a current player's exisiting contract if they don't want to, and just say (to the Bills' front office), "Nah, I'm good, dog."? Or are you saying if they aren't willing to restructure, just Cut them?

 

Players never refuse a restructure. There wouldn't be any reason for it. They just get their money faster. 

[SCBills]

8 minutes ago, Success said:

I don't think we'll see anything even close to this drastic.

 

I could see maybe 1 trade; my guess would be Oliver, but like a lot of players, I think the Bills decision-makers see him differently than a lot of fans do. He had a few dominant games, and a few where he disappeared, but the talent is there.  Almost reminds me of when we had Mario Williams.  

 

This was the best team in the league for some stretches of the '22 season.  Injuries & emotion caught up w/ the team, and they certainly laid an egg at the end - but it's not like it's a team that needs a huge overhaul.

 

They'll do some restructuring for sure.  But I just don't think we'll see a lot of trades to try to accumulate mid to late round picks. 

 

 

Bills "decision makers" should legitimately explain what the plan is for Oliver if he's still on this roster post-draft.  

 

I fear you are correct, but from the outside, it makes no sense at all.  

 

10.5M to a player not under contract the following year, who doesn't take over games himself and puts us in an Edmunds scenario for '24 at a position where we have nobody locked up on a multi-year deal is absurd management. 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by SCBills

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Curious...do you, or any of the other people who think AJE contributed nothing realize that he had 6.5 sacks this year in a part time role?

 

To add some context, all of which except for one were against non-playoff teams with mediocre to average QBs.  In the other game, Minnesota, it was against the third most sacked QB in the game.  

 

In the first game when the entire team was playing as if it were the Super Bowl, he had 4 QB Hits, 1 TFL, and 1.5 sacks.  After that he averaged one sack every fifth game or so, about 1 TFL every other game, and fewer than 1 QB Hit every two games, and all of them against mediocre or bad QBs other than for Cousins in that one game.  

 

In the playoffs he did nada, in two games, despite playing nearly 50% of the snaps.  

 

We need players to step up against the best teams, not the weakest ones.  

 

To your point though about snaps taken, aka "part time role," if he really is better than that, then let's point the finger at coaching.  Players are defended by not being coached properly and low snap counts.  Coaches are defended because the players aren't stepping up.  Beane is defended by the players not being used propertly.  So at the end of the day it's no one's fault for any of the poor decisions and dysfunction, so nothing changes.  

 

 

[Einstein]

A year ago we were talking about being the Super Bowl favorites.

Now we are talking about a total rebuild.

 

Sigh.

[Bob Jones]

12 minutes ago, MPT said:

 

Players never refuse a restructure. There wouldn't be any reason for it. They just get their money faster. 

Still confused. Isn't the whole purpose of a restructure to pay them LESS money?

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, MPT said:

Players never refuse a restructure. There wouldn't be any reason for it. They just get their money faster. 

 

Sometimes contracts are restructured because the player is no longer worth it, and when that happens they often refuse for one or more reasons.  Keep in mind, they often backload contracts with ridiculous annual numbers that they never have any intention of paying, but it looks good to the player who seems to want to be "the highest paid" or whatever their thing is.  I don't always understand it, but as we've seen, a 5, 6, or 8-year contract may actually practially only be a 3, 4, or 5 year contract.  

 

Didn't we offer Beasley a restructure and he refused in '21?  

 

Generally speaking, for younger up-and-coming players however, you seem to be correct.  

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

34 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Guess it's subjective... if we can get a 2 and 5, I'd say that's huge.  Even a 3 and 6, to me is a huge trade.  Especially given we only have 6 picks.  

 

However, a RD1 pick is not happening, for sure.. and maybe all we get is a 4th, I have no idea... but people who have asked around seem to believe Ed has legitimate value. 

A 6th or 7th is more likely than your scenario with his contract and play to date

Misleading title.  Should have said "My Madden 2023 trades"

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

A year ago we were talking about being the Super Bowl favorites.

Now we are talking about a total rebuild.

 

Sigh.

 

Well "we" being fans are, yes. But that only shows how overly emotional fanatics truly are.

 

As a wise man once said "You start listening to the fans, and soon you'll be sitting with them"