Doc Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: I'm pretty certain the video demonstrating his reckless driving (charge 1) and street racing (charge 2) is what the cops arrested him on and the DA charged him on, doc, not "who initiated the drag race". I'm pretty sure "incitement to drag race" is not a crime, lol. Anyway, you are still struggling unnecessarily. The incident was hours after the Bulldogs victory parade. There are images of both cars stopped before the race and a person going from one car to the other. There is video of them both a stoplight, from which they commenced the race. The likelihood that all of these teammates and football staff were not together partying at the championship parade in the hours before the crash is far less than they just happened to, by chance, encounter one another at a red light in town and decided to "hey, I hope we're all sober---cuz it's time to race!!" That's what you're left pushing now? Also, this punk is a repeat offender. Earlier in the season, he was pulled over for doing 89 in a 45. Here's how that went: 'Your break is you're not going to jail. Because that would make all kinds of news, right?' the officer says. 'I don't know if y'all need to send out a text or something to your teammates, slow down,' the officer continues. 'We wouldn't be talking if you were going the speed limit. I could care less about tint violation. But that was reckless. When you are around your teammates, just tell them to slow down. It's so easy to slow down.' The officer proceeds to explain the separate citations and information for Carter's traffic court date. He finally once again repeats his plea to slow down. 'Slow down, OK? That's all I ask.' The jock sniffing cop let him go with a few citations. So you're saying that a guy who has been citing and warned by law enforcement about reckless driving is going to get off of a reckless driving misdemeanor in a racing incident that resulted in the death of 2 people? A young guy speeding. That's the smoking gun! LOL! Interesting that he attended the same parade and didn't get drunk, or at least drunk enough to crash his car. Or that no one could determine she was drunk before she got behind the wheel, much less the person going from one car to the next. It was all on Carter to determine at the stoplight that she was drunk. Good one! You've got no point here as it relates to Carter's responsibility for Lecroy's terrible decisions that night. If absolving people of their responsibility for getting drunk and doing stupid stuff were a thing, no one would ever get charged. The DA has bigger problems to worry about given the legal mess she left behind and he'll want to get Carter's part out of the way by offering a plea deal for 1 misdemeanor, now that he knows Carter will fight. So again, we'll see who is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 23 minutes ago, Doc said: A young guy speeding. That's the smoking gun! LOL! Interesting that he attended the same parade and didn't get drunk, or at least drunk enough to crash his car. Or that no one could determine she was drunk before she got behind the wheel, much less the person going from one car to the next. It was all on Carter to determine at the stoplight that she was drunk. Good one! You've got no point here as it relates to Carter's responsibility for Lecroy's terrible decisions that night. If absolving people of their responsibility for getting drunk and doing stupid stuff were a thing, no one would ever get charged. The DA has bigger problems to worry about given the legal mess she left behind and he'll want to get Carter's part out of the way by offering a plea deal for 1 misdemeanor, now that he knows Carter will fight. So again, we'll see who is right. smoking gun? He has a prior for speeding where the world just saw the cop tell him he was reckless—and that he was going to give him a break, if he just agrees to stop driving recklessly. How did that turn out? Lol “he didn’t get drunk” . What else? He couldn’t see his buddies were drunk? He can’t recognize drunk college students? It’s all too inscrutable to ever discern? anyway, he made one terrible decision: to race that young woman, drunk or sober. what legal mess has she left behind that is a problem for the DA? She’s dead. He’s the only one facing charges? What are you talking about now? Your argument keeps lurching all over the place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: smoking gun? He has a prior for speeding where the world just saw the cop tell him he was reckless—and that he was going to give him a break, if he just agrees to stop driving recklessly. How did that turn out? Lol “he didn’t get drunk” . What else? He couldn’t see his buddies were drunk? He can’t recognize drunk college students? It’s all too inscrutable to ever discern? anyway, he made one terrible decision: to race that young woman, drunk or sober. what legal mess has she left behind that is a problem for the DA? She’s dead. He’s the only one facing charges? What are you talking about now? Your argument keeps lurching all over the place Did he crash his car? Or do only drunk women crash their cars while drag racing? And why do you think he'd have allowed her to even drive the car if he knew she was drunk? Because...he likes to speed? He's a football player? Something else? No wait, he only realized it at the stoplight. LOL! As for telling someone to stop doing something, given your career, you know how absurd that thought process is. But it turned out that he got charged with 2 misdemeanors, as he should have, which will likely be reduced to 1 when the DA agrees to a plea deal because he has more important matters to attend to, not only with that case but in general. But nothing he gets charged with will make him legally responsible for her or his teammate's death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 36 minutes ago, Doc said: Did he crash his car? Or do only drunk women crash their cars while drag racing? And why do you think he'd have allowed her to even drive the car if he knew she was drunk? Because...he likes to speed? He's a football player? Something else? No wait, he only realized it at the stoplight. LOL! As for telling someone to stop doing something, given your career, you know how absurd that thought process is. But it turned out that he got charged with 2 misdemeanors, as he should have, which will likely be reduced to 1 when the DA agrees to a plea deal because he has more important matters to attend to, not only with that case but in general. But nothing he gets charged with will make him legally responsible for her or his teammate's death. I’m with WEO on this one. The dude left the scene and lied to cops about it. Nice “friend”. I wouldn’t draft him. Legally responsible? Only if something new comes to light like he crowded her while racing and she swerved. He certainly contributed to the situation. If he didn’t engage in the race, there is likely a different result. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: I’m with WEO on this one. The dude left the scene and lied to cops about it. Nice “friend”. I wouldn’t draft him. Legally responsible? Only if something new comes to light like he crowded her while racing and she swerved. He certainly contributed to the situation. If he didn’t engage in the race, there is likely a different result. The Bills have no shot at him. And leaving the scene might disqualify him character-wise for the Bills. As for leaving the scene, it's not a good look (it's interesting that he wasn't charged for it) but it doesn't make him responsible for the accident. Nor does racing her as there are other ways to die when you drive drunk. If he or anyone else knew she was drunk, she should never have been allowed behind the wheel, period. WEO just has to go with his "he should have known before they started racing" so as to place the blame solely on him, when prior to that about a dozen people could be held responsible for letting her get behind the wheel. Edited March 5, 2023 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Doc said: The Bills have no shot at him. And leaving the scene might disqualify him character-wise for the Bills. As for leaving the scene, it's not a good look (it's interesting that he wasn't charged for it) but it doesn't make him responsible for the accident. Nor does racing her as there are other ways to die when you drive drunk. If he or anyone else knew she was drunk, she should never have been allowed behind the wheel, period. WEO just has to go with his "he should have known before they started racing" so as to place the blame solely on him, when prior to that about a dozen people could be held responsible for letting her get behind the wheel. If they were racing and he made a little swerve at her causing her to overreact I could see holding him partially responsible. I’m not saying it happened but it is certainly plausible. Lots of things could have prevented it, including some things Carter could have done. It is far from “just on Carter” but he was part of this and bears some responsibility. He also had subsequent chances to be truthful and demurred. I have not seen WEO solely put the blame on anyone and in case you haven’t noticed, I’m not exactly in lock step with him on most topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: If they were racing and he made a little swerve at her causing her to overreact I could see holding him partially responsible. I’m not saying it happened but it is certainly plausible. Lots of things could have prevented it, including some things Carter could have done. It is far from “just on Carter” but he was part of this and bears some responsibility. He also had subsequent chances to be truthful and demurred. I have not seen WEO solely put the blame on anyone and in case you haven’t noticed, I’m not exactly in lock step with him on most topics. Or you’re really WEO’s alt and he’s been saving you for this perfect time to beat Doc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: If they were racing and he made a little swerve at her causing her to overreact I could see holding him partially responsible. I’m not saying it happened but it is certainly plausible. Lots of things could have prevented it, including some things Carter could have done. It is far from “just on Carter” but he was part of this and bears some responsibility. He also had subsequent chances to be truthful and demurred. I have not seen WEO solely put the blame on anyone and in case you haven’t noticed, I’m not exactly in lock step with him on most topics. They have video of the crash and if he swerved at/hit her, he would have been charged with more than just drag racing. And again this assumes that Carter knew she was drunk, which would mean he tried to lead her to her/her passengers' deaths. They've had time to investigate and if he did, again he wouldn't have been charged with just drag racing. 3 hours ago, FireChans said: Or you’re really WEO’s alt and he’s been saving you for this perfect time to beat Doc More like continue to lose... Edited March 6, 2023 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 16 hours ago, Doc said: Did he crash his car? Or do only drunk women crash their cars while drag racing? And why do you think he'd have allowed her to even drive the car if he knew she was drunk? Because...he likes to speed? He's a football player? Something else? No wait, he only realized it at the stoplight. LOL! As for telling someone to stop doing something, given your career, you know how absurd that thought process is. But it turned out that he got charged with 2 misdemeanors, as he should have, which will likely be reduced to 1 when the DA agrees to a plea deal because he has more important matters to attend to, not only with that case but in general. But nothing he gets charged with will make him legally responsible for her or his teammate's death. 15 hours ago, Doc said: The Bills have no shot at him. And leaving the scene might disqualify him character-wise for the Bills. As for leaving the scene, it's not a good look (it's interesting that he wasn't charged for it) but it doesn't make him responsible for the accident. Nor does racing her as there are other ways to die when you drive drunk. If he or anyone else knew she was drunk, she should never have been allowed behind the wheel, period. WEO just has to go with his "he should have known before they started racing" so as to place the blame solely on him, when prior to that about a dozen people could be held responsible for letting her get behind the wheel. 9 hours ago, Doc said: They have video of the crash and if he swerved at/hit her, he would have been charged with more than just drag racing. And again this assumes that Carter knew she was drunk, which would mean he tried to lead her to her/her passengers' deaths. They've had time to investigate and if he did, again he wouldn't have been charged with just drag racing. More like continue to lose... Yes! The DA is very busy! Dropping 1 of 2 misdemeanors on 1 defendant (serial "reckless driver", no less) where both crimes are caught on the same video will absolutely release that office from it's massive daily burden! That's a great point. It's well understood that alcohol affects reaction time and the more the BAL and the higher the speed, the longer distance to avoid an obstacle. Even you know this. "If he or anyone else knew she was drunk, she should never have been allowed behind the wheel, period." This may be the single most absurd thing you have ever posted. You've just solved the scourge of drunk driving! Anyone who knows someone is intoxicated should simply take away their keys--especially a bunch of college kids....just like it is done....nowhere. So, since no one took her keys, then no one could possibly know she was drunk! Maybe at the parade and parties he didn't see his friends----nay, ANYONE, drinking! lol. The Defense rests! "Tried to lead them to their deaths"?? No--just made a stupid mistake. Even if no one was drunk, the reckless driving and racing had the high risk of one or both cars crashing. The very simple question has now been brought up by 2 posters. Did HIS decision to race contribute in any way to the outcome for those in the other car? The obvious answer is of course it did. You know this but, as usual, you have painted yourself into another corner by countless unforced errors. But hey--keep "winning"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Yes! The DA is very busy! Dropping 1 of 2 misdemeanors on 1 defendant (serial "reckless driver", no less) where both crimes are caught on the same video will absolutely release that office from it's massive daily burden! That's a great point. It's well understood that alcohol affects reaction time and the more the BAL and the higher the speed, the longer distance to avoid an obstacle. Even you know this. "If he or anyone else knew she was drunk, she should never have been allowed behind the wheel, period." This may be the single most absurd thing you have ever posted. You've just solved the scourge of drunk driving! Anyone who knows someone is intoxicated should simply take away their keys--especially a bunch of college kids....just like it is done....nowhere. So, since no one took her keys, then no one could possibly know she was drunk! Maybe at the parade and parties he didn't see his friends----nay, ANYONE, drinking! lol. The Defense rests! "Tried to lead them to their deaths"?? No--just made a stupid mistake. Even if no one was drunk, the reckless driving and racing had the high risk of one or both cars crashing. The very simple question has now been brought up by 2 posters. Did HIS decision to race contribute in any way to the outcome for those in the other car? The obvious answer is of course it did. You know this but, as usual, you have painted yourself into another corner by countless unforced errors. But hey--keep "winning"! "I'm pretty sure "incitement to drag race" is not a crime, lol." Guess who said that? Keep losing. It's what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, Doc said: "I'm pretty sure "incitement to drag race" is not a crime, lol." Guess who said that? Keep losing. It's what you do. It's not a crime, no. But you may answer the question. I made it extra simple for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It's not a crime, no. But you may answer the question. I made it extra simple for you. The answer is and always has been no, she didn't have to race him. It's so obvious an answer even you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Did the racing between the 2 cars (high speeds/reckless driving) affect the outcome of the passengers in her car--more so than if there was no racing? Do drunk people make more sound decisions than sober people? You assume he was the sober one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Just now, Mr. WEO said: Did the racing between the 2 cars (high speeds/reckless driving) affect the outcome of the passengers in her car--more so than if there was no racing? Do drunk people make more sound decisions than sober people? You assume he was the sober one. I think I've made it abundantly clear over the years that being drunk doesn't absolve people of the consequences when things go wrong. Just because he started drag racing, it doesn't mean she had to do it. And in the absence of drag racing, who knows what other bad decisions she would have made that could also have led to her death after she got drunk and behind the wheel? And maybe I'm not as jaded as you, but I don't default to thinking that Carter knew she was drunk and thus led her to her demise. And again if there had been any evidence, he would have been charged with far more than drag racing, which, even if convicted of both misdemeanors, don't make him legally responsible for her death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, Doc said: I think I've made it abundantly clear over the years that being drunk doesn't absolve people of the consequences when things go wrong. Just because he started drag racing, it doesn't mean she had to do it. And in the absence of drag racing, who knows what other bad decisions she would have made that could also have led to her death after she got drunk and behind the wheel? And maybe I'm not as jaded as you, but I don't default to thinking that Carter knew she was drunk and thus led her to her demise. And again if there had been any evidence, he would have been charged with far more than drag racing, which, even if convicted of both misdemeanors, don't make him legally responsible for her death. No one here is absolving her of her choices, doc. Why bring that up? Since we've already established that there is no charge for inciting racing, there's no charge for him re: "knowing she was drunk". I guess you could go after the survivors for letting her drive drunk, no? Put them on the hook--even if they were loaded too!! Severe inebriation does NOT affect critical decision making! Drunk or not, his decision to race makes him equally as responsible for the outcome of the race--the outcome could have been the same if neither was drunk. No doubt a series of civil cases will claim this as well. "Hey, I was just an innocent reckless driver in this one--she was drunk" defense will be novel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: No one here is absolving her of her choices, doc. Why bring that up? Since we've already established that there is no charge for inciting racing, there's no charge for him re: "knowing she was drunk". I guess you could go after the survivors for letting her drive drunk, no? Put them on the hook--even if they were loaded too!! Severe inebriation does NOT affect critical decision making! Drunk or not, his decision to race makes him equally as responsible for the outcome of the race--the outcome could have been the same if neither was drunk. No doubt a series of civil cases will claim this as well. "Hey, I was just an innocent reckless driver in this one--she was drunk" defense will be novel. Why go after anyone other than the person solely responsible for his/her terrible decisions? Why does it always have to be someone else's fault and/or that you can't blame the victim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 40 minutes ago, Doc said: Why go after anyone other than the person solely responsible for his/her terrible decisions? Why does it always have to be someone else's fault and/or that you can't blame the victim? You’re right. They should go after her. Charge her posthumously. This poor guy should be allowed to continue driving recklessly at his leisure. Anyone else who is harmed by his behavior…well that’s really their own fault when you really think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 35 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: You’re right. They should go after her. Charge her posthumously. This poor guy should be allowed to continue driving recklessly at his leisure. Anyone else who is harmed by his behavior…well that’s really their own fault when you really think about it. Oh, they will. At least her estate, whatever she has of one. As for Carter, it's a learning moment. What he does with it is up to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Doc said: Oh, they will. At least her estate, whatever she has of one. As for Carter, it's a learning moment. What he does with it is up to him. His learning moment was not when the cop let him off in September for "reckless" driving? "her estate"...lol Edited March 6, 2023 by Mr. WEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: His learning moment was not when the cop let him off in September for "reckless" driving? "her estate"...lol Again, how many patients have you told to lose weight because the excess weight was harming them, and they didn't? Yes her estate, since she's dead. And probably UGA because it was a car they rented for her and she was an employee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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