Leslie Frazier "taking a year off from coaching" per Bills PR

[fergie's ire]

If Frazier was pushed out rather than walking out it would seem to fit with something I have noticed about McDermott since day 1.  He doesn't call guys out in public but he does make them accountable.  When he first got her and cut guys like Sammy Watkins loose and we heard things like "we need our kind of guys" or "some guys just aren't a good fit."  We could certainly connect the dots and we heard some stories afterwards about cleaning out bad locker room guys, but he never directly took shots at people....but he did cut them loose.  Last year we saw the same thing after thirteen seconds when there were general comments about a lack of communication and/or execution, but nobody specifically called out...but then the special teams coach was let go.  McDermott never seems to want to put people on blast, but also won't put up with them.  I think the players respect him for that, and it seems like Frazier is another example of this approach.

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Some in here get the point, while others contradict themselves defending Frazier. I said it after the season ended - I’d be surprised if he was back with the Bills. Didn’t know how it’d happen, only that it would. Surprise, surprise.

Just a little transparency... 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

I'm on board, with letting Frazier walk. I got sick of seeing our secondary repeatedly torched, against teams that we should've swatted like flies. However, a total coaching overhaul means using up a chunk of Allen's peak years. If we make the wrong hire (which is not exactly unprecedented) God help us...

Yes this is the risk. You have the "Keep McD" camp that fears someone else might be worse and that very well could be true. Why screw up a good thing, we're winning 10-13 games each season.  And you have the "we can do better" camp like myself that fears Sean can only climb 3/4 up the mountain.  I would've loved a HC like Dabs, Frank or Payton to surround Josh with tons of protection and weapons.  Obviously those ships have sailed.  Sean's tendencies scare me.  Player development delays, odd personnel decisions and in game mistakes.  Sean should be applauded for all the good he's done but that final goal just seems so far away.  

[Thrivefourfive]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

In 7 of the last 10 Super Bowls, the losing team has been held below its season average, often substantially below. In 1 the losing team (Seattle losing to NE) scored their exact season average. Only in 2 - the Eagles last year and the Patriots in 2018 - did the losing team score more than their average.

 

It is simply not true that top offenses can't be slowed down. It happens every year in the playoffs and usually in the Super Bowl. The Chiefs have been able to do it with less talent than us. Ditto for the Bengals. With the right coaching philosophy it can be done and most likely needs to for us to win a Super Bowl.

 

I’m taking this on! Super Bowls are different. Best team against best team. It can easily, and should be expected to, be slowed down. If a team scores 30 a game, they shouldn’t score 30 against a Super Bowl team. That 30 avg includes the 44 they put up against Houston. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

And unfortunately once we enter the playoffs we don't have the proper coaching philosophy. We don't have the coaching firepower to outscheme elite qb/ HC combos. McD will get taken to the woodshed every time.

Sure seems like this is a valid opinion. 

 

McD would have been crucified by other media markets like NY and Philly. The media is soft and Buffalo fans are way too nice. McD has had no accountability for his playoff blunders. A blunder so big that it will go down in the history books.

 

Hoe hum..

 

[Chaos]

After reading the comments from the pressers yesterday and today, this situation seems stranger and strange.  This seems to be the summary:

"Frazier was a good guy, we would have liked him to stay, but also he was so inconesquential we don't really need to replace him"

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Chaos

[Brand J]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

After reading the comments from the pressers yesterday and today, this situation seems stranger and strange.  This seems to be the summary:

"Frazier was a good guy, we would have liked him to stay, but also he was so inconesquential w don't really need to replace him"

 

Also didn’t get the feeling that Beane would want him back next season. 

[SoCal Deek]

24 minutes ago, Chaos said:

After reading the comments from the pressers yesterday and today, this situation seems stranger and strange.  This seems to be the summary:

"Frazier was a good guy, we would have liked him to stay, but also he was so inconesquential we don't really need to replace him"

 

It’s what’s called “spin” and it isn’t complicated. The Bills were trying to be respectful of Frazier by waiting to see if he would get an offer elsewhere. He didn’t. But because they waited they ended up missing out on many, if not all, of the available top candidates for his replacement. So now they’re pretty much forced to say ‘we’ll take from here’. 

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[NeverOutNick]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It’s what’s called “spin” and it isn’t complicated. The Bills were trying to be respectful of Frazier by waiting to see if he would get an offer elsewhere. He didn’t. But because they waited they ended up missing out on many, if not all, of the available top candidates for his replacement. So now they’re pretty much forced to say ‘we’ll take from here’. 

 

I agree with this but also think that McDermott was never going to let his defense go to a guy like Flores because it would be completely different from what he built these last 5 years. So in the end he was always going to make it an in house move like promoting Bobby Babich to DC. It’s a prideful move that I hope pays off for him but man I would’ve loved to see what Flores would’ve done with his vengeful dolphin slaying spirit lol

[Einstein]

They said Fangio was waiting to sign in Miami because he was reviewing several offers. I wonder if the Bills called him.

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

If Frazier was pushed out rather than walking out it would seem to fit with something I have noticed about McDermott since day 1.  He doesn't call guys out in public but he does make them accountable.  When he first got her and cut guys like Sammy Watkins loose and we heard things like "we need our kind of guys" or "some guys just aren't a good fit."  We could certainly connect the dots and we heard some stories afterwards about cleaning out bad locker room guys, but he never directly took shots at people....but he did cut them loose.  Last year we saw the same thing after thirteen seconds when there were general comments about a lack of communication and/or execution, but nobody specifically called out...but then the special teams coach was let go.  McDermott never seems to want to put people on blast, but also won't put up with them.  I think the players respect him for that, and it seems like Frazier is another example of this approach.

Who hold McD accountable? 

 

You don't think he was primarily responsible for the 13 sec loss?

 

How bout the game plan and adjustments vs Cinci? 

 

Ultimately, the coach had to bare some blame. It can't just be everyone around him. That's just unrealistic. 

 

Now more than ever, McD needs to step up and get the team over the hump. Enough of the excuses and blaming others. 

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

We've come a long way, from Rex, Jauron, Mularkey, etc.

Who is an upgrade, and willing to come here?

If we surround Josh with a brick wall of a line, a lot of problems, will simply go away. Just outscore 'em!

I agree that the key to the future success of the Bills is to build a monster offense around Josh.  To literally outscore teams regardless of how our defense plays. Now the only problem to hurdle is how to keep McD from his incessant defensive picks?

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yes this is the risk. You have the "Keep McD" camp that fears someone else might be worse and that very well could be true. Why screw up a good thing, we're winning 10-13 games each season.  And you have the "we can do better" camp like myself that fears Sean can only climb 3/4 up the mountain.  I would've loved a HC like Dabs, Frank or Payton to surround Josh with tons of protection and weapons.  Obviously those ships have sailed.  Sean's tendencies scare me.  Player development delays, odd personnel decisions and in game mistakes.  Sean should be applauded for all the good he's done but that final goal just seems so far away.  

Agree 100%. Great post. 

 

McD has run its course. It's time to move on. 

4 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

I agree with this but also think that McDermott was never going to let his defense go to a guy like Flores because it would be completely different from what he built these last 5 years. So in the end he was always going to make it an in house move like promoting Bobby Babich to DC. It’s a prideful move that I hope pays off for him but man I would’ve loved to see what Flores would’ve done with his vengeful dolphin slaying spirit lol

Would have loved to see Fangio come in here and completely revamp this defense. 

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

They said Fangio was waiting to sign in Miami because he was reviewing several offers. I wonder if the Bills called him.

They should have. Fangio is one of the best defensive minds out there. His defense is different than McD. It would require lots of changes. I welcome the changes. 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

They said Fangio was waiting to sign in Miami because he was reviewing several offers. I wonder if the Bills called him.

 

The other offers were San Francisco and Sean Payton. He had basically agreed to be the DC name on Sean Payton's ticket in advance of hiring season. Obviously though Payton going to Denver a year after Denver fired Fangio as HC meant that was probably a non-starter. 

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

They should have. Fangio is one of the best defensive minds out there. His defense is different than McD. It would require lots of changes. I welcome the changes. 

 

He is one of the best defensive minds out there. But so is McDermott. And he wasn't swapping his defense out for Fangio's. It's a non-starter. 

[Ray Stonada]

I hope Leslie Frazier and his family are alright. 

 

One note for those who keep bringing up his defenses' stats in their last three playoff losses. Not sure that's not cherry picking.

 

For comparision, I just calculated Kansas City's defensive stats in their last three playoff losses: they gave up, on AVERAGE, 31.6 points and 407.6 yards in those three games. Pretty terrible, huh?

[uticaclub]

13 minutes ago, Ray Stonada said:

I hope Leslie Frazier and his family are alright. 

 

One note for those who keep bringing up his defenses' stats in their last three playoff losses. Not sure that's not cherry picking.

 

For comparision, I just calculated Kansas City's defensive stats in their last three playoff losses: they gave up, on AVERAGE, 31.6 points and 407.6 yards in those three games. Pretty terrible, huh?

KC doesn't dump the amount of resources we do on their defense, they load the offense up to outsource opponents. Look at the 13-second game, their defense wasn’t great but ours was worst, despite the number of Day 1 & 2 draft picks and excessive cap spend. Reid is also an offensive-minded coach, not a defensive guy like McDermott

Edited March 2, 2023 by uticaclub

[vincec]

21 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Bingo!

 

I just don't understand the Bills defensive game plan. What in the world did they learn from the 9 min Monday night game? They seemingly did nothing different. 

 

That defensive game plan was doomed from the start. You can't tell me coach McD didn't have his hand on that game plan. 

 

It was a colossal failure in everyway. However, coaches have to create effective game plans to give their players the best chance to win. The exact opposite happened. 

Frazier was asked about this before the playoff game and basically said that he didn't think the Bills got far enough into their defensive game plan to properly evaluate how effective it was, so not much was going to change.

[Dopey]

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

They should have. Fangio is one of the best defensive minds out there. His defense is different than McD. It would require lots of changes. I welcome the changes. 

If you look at the coaching careers of both, there similar. Short, unsuccessful stints as a HC, but a long successful career as a coordinator. There is one major difference: 

SB rings: 

Fangio-0

Frazier-1

Is Fangio any better? Or just different. 

[newcam2012]

41 minutes ago, Dopey said:

If you look at the coaching careers of both, there similar. Short, unsuccessful stints as a HC, but a long successful career as a coordinator. There is one major difference: 

SB rings: 

Fangio-0

Frazier-1

Is Fangio any better? Or just different. 

He's better by a lot. Don't get caught up with that stat. 

1 hour ago, vincec said:

Frazier was asked about this before the playoff game and basically said that he didn't think the Bills got far enough into their defensive game plan to properly evaluate how effective it was, so not much was going to change.

That was a huge mistake. Poor coaching at its best.