Leslie Frazier "taking a year off from coaching" per Bills PR

[PBF81]

14 hours ago, Beck Water said:

At least on this forum, there seems to be a sizeable and vocal contingent who do not respect Frazier....examples:

 

Part of the problem is that McD won't come clean on who's responsible in the coaching ranks and whose D it is to orchestrate.  

 

Which is fine, and ultimately it falls back on him.  But when clear issues exist, as they do, and little if anything is done except fire the Safeties Coach, which was laughable, and without any further clarification by McD, presumably in his own personal interests, then it only leaves room for speculation, but based upon what's reasonable.  Frasier was the DC for example, so if he's merely a fixture of sorts without any function.  

 

Either way, it's difficult to respect our playoff defense.  How that manifests itself falls upon McD's leadership, or lack thereof in this instance.  

 

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The actual point is that as far as levels of offensive atrocities go, the Niners defense actually had an excuse to give up 31. And they still held the Eagles under 270 total yards and 5/15 on third down. 

 

The Niners defense did decently operating under much worse conditions than the Bills defense. 

 

And still gave up 31. You have to score points now in the playoffs. The Bills defense sucked against Cincy. No question. But if you can only score 10 that won't matter.

23 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I think the 13 seconds debacle demonstrated beyond question that our offense is good enough to get to the Championship game. 

 

Last year the defense and coaching blew it. No question. In 2022 that is not what happened. 

21 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not asking us to shut down the Bengals or the Chiefs. I'm asking to at least slow them down and make it difficult. Get some punches in. Don't just sit back and let them bleed you out slowly. The Chiefs didn't shut down the Bengals, but they held them to 20 points in a game where their offense wasn't performing at its best. They got two interceptions and several sacks. That's a far cry from 27 points scored in 3 quarters. And yes we had injuries and general talent issues in that game, but you can't honestly say the Chiefs defense was that much more talented than us across the board even with our injuries. Coaching was the biggest difference.

 

 

I don't see anyone giving the offense a pass. The defense couldn't have possibly held the Bengals below 10 points, no question. But likewise to what you're saying the offense's awful performance doesn't excuse the defenses's awful performance. And the defense making it look easy for our opponent is a 3 year trend now. At a certain point the coaching has to be held accountable when there are wide open receivers all over the field and no hint of a pass rush.

 

Not excusing the defensive performance vs Cincy. Haven't done that once. The whole team played its worst game of the year. You do that in the playoffs you lose.

 

It is what it is.

[phypon]

Glad he's gone.  He needed to go last year.  I do not feel bad for him, he's a millionaire.  Couldn't get the job done, see ya.  Have a happy life.  There is a reason he wasn't a HC candidate.  All good, let it go.  

 

S McD will be next.  I'd take Chan or Wade over this staff any day.  They did more with less.  Not sure why people think that LF was something he's not.  Game passed him by years ago.  Without an offense that put up points and made the opposing team one dimensional, his defense folded like a cheap suit.

Edited March 1, 2023 by phypon

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You’re seemingly giving the defense a complete pass. Meanwhile the Bengals defense did a terrific job against our offense and have done A MUCH better job against KC in the post season than we have. 

 

No I am not. The defense sucked against Cincy. Said that multiple times. And indeed when someone tried to make the "only 13 points after the first two drives" point yesterday I rejected that. The Bengals could have kept scoring if they needed to. 

 

But the point I was responding to was "the Bills don't hold down superior offenses." I agree. They don't. Nor do other good defenses. The league isn't built that way. The defense has to play better than it did vs Cincy. But we have to score more than 30 in every playoff game. Especially in this AFC with these QBs on the other side. Unless we are doing that consistently the defense isn't gonna matter a ton.

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Not excusing the defensive performance vs Cincy. Haven't done that once. The whole team played its worst game of the year. You do that in the playoffs you lose.

 

But it's a trend for the defense. Every year in the playoffs it's the same. Play passive and wait for the offense to make a mistake. It just isn't working. The whole philosophy needs to change.

 

On offense Dorsey needs a philosophical change too. He needs to call games LESS aggressively. Be willing to stay patient. It was his first year on the job so I'm hoping he learned enough to improve. Frazier has been in the game for too long. At this point he is what he is.

 

I just hope McDermott is more willing to press the issue in playoff games. What have we got to lose? Our current philosophy isn't working. They can stick to that philosophy throughout the regular season, it's proven to be effective. In the playoffs against other championship caliber teams they have to try something different.

[BuffaL0L0k0]

On 1/30/2023 at 6:16 PM, ticketssince61 said:

It is great to pay your up and coming QB on the cheap rookie deal (Hurts, Burrow,...) and fine to pay your superstar QB (Mahomes, Allen, ...).

 

The problem is when you overpay a QB that is good but not great (Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, Kyler Murray), and you are stuck paying them elite QB $ without the elite QB results.

 

You are then in the quandary of "he's not good enough but there is nobody else out there that is better"

'nuf said and well put on your part...thanks!

9 minutes ago, phypon said:

Glad he's gone.  He needed to go last year.  I do not feel bad for him, he's a millionaire.  Couldn't get the job done, see ya.  Have a happy life.  There is a reason he wasn't a HC candidate.  All good, let it go.  

 

S McD will be next.  I'd take Chan or Wade over this staff any day.  They did more with less.  Not sure why people think that LF was something he's not.  Game passed him by years ago.  Without an offense that put up points and made the opposing team one dimensional, his defense folded like a cheap suit.

more with less is still a mute point to me, as it was reflected in a zero playoff appearances cobined for those regimes ...

Edited March 1, 2023 by BuffaL0L0k0

[PBF81]

37 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The difference is Schwartz was under contract. Leslie isn't. But he resigned to step away from the sport and take a year out and was very clear that was what he was doing. He didn't resign and then see if there were other job options. He resigned to take a year out. 

 

First of all, you didn't say that in your original statement, so then it's not the same, and my original ascertion is correct, namely that this is unprecedented. 

 

I haven't even read that either, that his contract ended.  From the best that I've seen we don't know this as a fact.  Plenty of people have been asking.  Where are you getting this info?  

 

Perhaps I missed it, can you provide a link where it formally states that he's no longer under contract, namely that his existing contract ended?  That would be great info to have and yes, it would definitely change things ... slightly.  

 

There's still this, that if that's the case, then why is he under the impression that he can return here whenever he's finished with his little vacation, and continue to be the DC, which is what we've read.  Schwartz, as you cite, went to a different team in a different role after his resigning.  This entire travesty with Frasier appears to revolve around pressure being exerted on the team and more specifically McD.  

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

But it's a trend for the defense. Every year in the playoffs it's the same. Play passive and wait for the offense to make a mistake. It just isn't working. The whole philosophy needs to change.

 

On offense Dorsey needs a philosophical change too. He needs to call games LESS aggressively. Be willing to stay patient. It was his first year on the job so I'm hoping he learned enough to improve. Frazier has been in the game for too long. At this point he is what he is.

 

I just hope McDermott is more willing to press the issue in playoff games. What have we got to lose? Our current philosophy isn't working. They can stick to that philosophy throughout the regular season, it's proven to be effective. In the playoffs against other championship caliber teams they have to try something different.

 

Beyond the fact that I do think they need to press more with their corners (the reason they didn't this year was they didn't trust their safeties at all, but I agree they could have been braver) I don't think they need to tweak much schematically. They need their front 4 to create more pressure and they need to execute the defense better. They made bad defensive mistakes against Cincy. Big communication breakdown plays. You can't have that in the post season against other top 5 or 6 teams and get away with it. 

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

But the point I was responding to was "the Bills don't hold down superior offenses." I agree. They don't. Nor do other good defenses.

 

But they do. This past Super Bowl was an anomaly. Usually the winner is in fact holding their opponent below their season average for points scored. I already mentioned that the Chiefs defense held the Bengals offense to 20 points. And it's not like the Chiefs defense was super talented. They were below average in the regular season. But in critical moments their coaching/scheme allowed them to make difference making plays when it counted. The Chiefs game plan on defense in that game was nothing like our game plan. You can't just ignore that and blame it all on talent.

[phypon]

7 minutes ago, BuffaL0L0k0 said:

'nuf said and well put on your part...thanks!

more with less is still a mute point to me, as it was reflected in a zero playoff appearances cobined for those regimes ...

First of all its "moot", not mute.  Second of all, give them JA.

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

But they do. This past Super Bowl was an anomaly. Usually the winner is in fact holding their opponent below their season average for points scored. I already mentioned that the Chiefs defense held the Bengals offense to 20 points. And it's not like the Chiefs defense was super talented. They were below average in the regular season. But in critical moments their coaching/scheme allowed them to make difference making plays when it counted. The Chiefs game plan on defense in that game was nothing like our game plan. You can't just ignore that and blame it all on talent.

 

And honestly, arguing whether other teams do it or not is besides the point.  It's how we do it, not the fact that it happens, ... again, not once, but regularly now in the playoffs unless we play offensively bereft teams like NE with Jones.  

 

I mean honestly, and we still haven't gotten an explanation for "13 Seconds" or the sihtshow that was the Bengals game.  I mean how is that defended?  What, yeah, we thought that the best approach there was to hand them 40 yards and hope that their K, who would have been under extreme duress, kicked Wide Right.  

 

The lack of transparency, or the "cover-up" we can call it, is just as troubling as what actually happened, particularly since absolutely nothing seems to have changed, and McD's promises of "learning from it and improving" simply haven't happened.  

 

[newcam2012]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I am not. The defense sucked against Cincy. Said that multiple times. And indeed when someone tried to make the "only 13 points after the first two drives" point yesterday I rejected that. The Bengals could have kept scoring if they needed to. 

 

But the point I was responding to was "the Bills don't hold down superior offenses." I agree. They don't. Nor do other good defenses. The league isn't built that way. The defense has to play better than it did vs Cincy. But we have to score more than 30 in every playoff game. Especially in this AFC with these QBs on the other side. Unless we are doing that consistently the defense isn't gonna matter a ton.

I agree. Just refer to the Super Bowl as a reference. 

 

Eagles a legit team on defense couldn't slow down a hobbled Mahomes and an Andy Reid led offense. 

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

But they do. This past Super Bowl was an anomaly. Usually the winner is in fact holding their opponent below their season average for points scored. I already mentioned that the Chiefs defense held the Bengals offense to 20 points. And it's not like the Chiefs defense was super talented. They were below average in the regular season. But in critical moments their coaching/scheme allowed them to make difference making plays when it counted. The Chiefs game plan on defense in that game was nothing like our game plan. You can't just ignore that and blame it all on talent.

 

No, I disagree. That Chiefs - Bengals game was the anomoly. 

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No, I disagree. That Chiefs - Bengals game was the anomoly. 

 

In 7 of the last 10 Super Bowls, the losing team has been held below its season average, often substantially below. In 1 the losing team (Seattle losing to NE) scored their exact season average. Only in 2 - the Eagles last year and the Patriots in 2018 - did the losing team score more than their average.

 

It is simply not true that top offenses can't be slowed down. It happens every year in the playoffs and usually in the Super Bowl. The Chiefs have been able to do it with less talent than us. Ditto for the Bengals. With the right coaching philosophy it can be done and most likely needs to for us to win a Super Bowl.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by HappyDays

[Brand J]

Some in here get the point, while others contradict themselves defending Frazier. I said it after the season ended - I’d be surprised if he was back with the Bills. Didn’t know how it’d happen, only that it would. Surprise, surprise.

[newcam2012]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

In 7 of the last 10 Super Bowls, the losing team has been held below its season average, often substantially below. In 1 the losing team (Seattle losing to NE) scored their exact season average. Only in 2 - the Eagles last year and the Patriots in 2018 - did the losing team score more than their average.

 

It is simply not true that top offenses can't be slowed down. It happens every year in the playoffs and usually in the Super Bowl. The Chiefs have been able to do it with less talent than us. Ditto for the Bengals. With the right coaching philosophy it can be done and most likely needs to for us to win a Super Bowl.

 

I'd rather go in a direct direction.

 

Of course defense is important. This is McD defense. It always has been and will continue to be. He's shown an inability to get it done. We can debate the reasons why. 

 

I'd rather allocate the Bills resources in the offense. You have a special QB. Get him protection and weapons. Give Allen the best chance to succeed and thrive. Clearly, the organization hasn't. 

 

I'd rather go down swinging with Allen than investing in a defense that fails to get it done year after year. 

[CNYfan]

These days it seems a good day for a defense is 2/3 stops and 2/3 field goals out of the 7-8 possessions that the opposition has a chance at.   

[I'm Spartacus]

3 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Are you saying they were not jacked up to play the other games?

No

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

In 7 of the last 10 Super Bowls, the losing team has been held below its season average, often substantially below. In 1 the losing team (Seattle losing to NE) scored their exact season average. Only in 2 - the Eagles last year and the Patriots in 2018 - did the losing team score more than their average.

 

It is simply not true that top offenses can't be slowed down. It happens every year in the playoffs and usually in the Super Bowl. The Chiefs have been able to do it with less talent than us. Ditto for the Bengals. With the right coaching philosophy it can be done and most likely needs to for us to win a Super Bowl.

 

And unfortunately once we enter the playoffs we don't have the proper coaching philosophy. We don't have the coaching firepower to outscheme elite qb/ HC combos. McD will get taken to the woodshed every time.

[Bill from NYC]

29 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

And unfortunately once we enter the playoffs we don't have the proper coaching philosophy. We don't have the coaching firepower to outscheme elite qb/ HC combos. McD will get taken to the woodshed every time.

I don't have a huge problem with McDermott as a field coach. I do however deplore his method of team building and think that he has far too much say wrt the draft. 

Jmo.