Leslie Frazier "taking a year off from coaching" per Bills PR

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Tweet from JW in January

 

Couple thoughts:

1) The tweet could be technically true that Frazier's contract had not expired as of Jan 26th, and that it expired today Feb 28th 

2) JW could be wrong

3) Other reports that his contract expired could be wrong

 

 

Given a choice between Wawrow as a source and almost everyone else covering the Bills, I would take @john wawrow.    He is required by his AP contract to verify everything with 2 sources with direct knowledge.  When he's opining, you can put his opinion in the kettle with everyone else, but when he's stating something definitive, it's typically Bank.

 

I could be wrong, but I believe NFL coaches contracts run the same way that other NFL contracts run - from the start of the league year, until just before the start of the next.  So the question Wawrow would be answering is "is Wawrow under contract for the 2023 season?" and the answer would apparently be "yes".  And it would be very unlike Wawrow to dance around a technicality, such as saying "his contract has NOT expired" when it's actually due to expire in a month.

 

Interesting bit in Beane's combine presser about 1 minute in:

Reporter: "When you say return to coaching, do you mean that will be with the Bills?"

Beane: "I don't know that yet.  I think what we're going to do is just take this year off, and let this year be, and cross that in 2024"

 

That doesn't sound like the GM of a coach who is not under contract with the Bills at least through 2024, IMO

Edited February 28, 2023 by Beck Water

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am basing it on the fact that even the staffing changes we know were decided weeks ago were only formally announced today. And I did think Beane sounded like this had been a process. Didn't suddenly happen this weekend.

Now, we can hope Coach McD is next. 

 

It's time for him to go. The Bills needs a change. He's proven he can't get over the hump. Let's not think he's going to lead this team to the Super Bowl.

 

Diggs and Allen have always shown signs of displeasure. We all know Diggs' past.  I would welcome an offensive minded coach. Too late now. 

 

This is McD defense make no mistake about it. His defense has fallen woefully short in the playoffs.

 

I know you will disagree and many others will too. Next year you may be singing a different tune. 

1 hour ago, Charles Romes said:

We did not “hold” the Bengals to 13 the rest of the day. There was nothing to indicate that Burrow would not be putting up 17-30+ in the second half if they needed to and were not trying to burn the clock. Bengals drove the ball down the field every time they wanted to outside of a single possession. If they were not so successful mercifully killing the clock in the fourth they would have scored more points. 

The Bengals could have put up 50 points against the Bills defense. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by newcam2012

[Sherlock Holmes]

What about this guy?

[Ya Digg?]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

Now, we can hope Coach McD is next. 

 

It's time for him to go. The Bills needs a change. He's proven he can't get over the hump. Let's not think he's going to lead this team to the Super Bowl.

 

Diggs and Allen have always shown signs of displeasure. We all know Diggs' past.  I would welcome an offensive minded coach. Too late now. 

 

This is McD defense make no mistake about it. His defense has fallen woefully short in the playoffs.

 

I know you will disagree and many others will too. Next year you may be singing a different time. 

This is just simply not true at all. Frustration this year yes, but up until this year that wasn’t the case

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Brandon Beane is a straight shooter and we have a credible poster here saying he has heard from sources the same thing. 

 

I 100% believe this was Leslie's decision.

 

Ryan Wendell is the third as I read it. He left for a promotion in LA.

 

While agree Beane is a straight shooter on many things, he isn't on all things, nor should he be.  When Farwell botched the call in the 13 second debacle, they story was Farwell left on his own to take a step backwards in his career making a lateral move to a lesser team.  Neither Beane nor McD would directly detail the depths of this decision even though it was publicly known Farwell made a mistake during that sequence.  But rather than be made a scape goat, he was able to step down and take another job.  

 

And this is all understandable, no credible or good GM is going to air the dirty laundry behind the scenes.  Not to the public or to the rest of the organization, which is why its irrelevant another poster here supposedly heard the same thing about it being Fraziers choice. 

 

Head coordinators trying to get HC jobs don't just take a year off from SB contending rosters, especially coaches coming off #1 and #2 ranked seasons for their units.  Nothing about this story appears to be the "full" story.  

 

Lets not forget, the defense has been atrocious in 3 straight playoff losses.  This year, Jonw Wawrow reported that during the game McD was visibly upset and yelling presnap when he saw the defenders 10 yards off the LOS on 3rd and 4 and wanted them to move up.  Beane directly references this play in the end of season presser too.  And McD already has had to take away play calling duties before from Frazier which resulted in a significant and immediate improvement from the defense.  

 

Everything about this sounds like McD was going to be more involved in the defense again, which is essentially the same as another demotion to Frazier and would certainly hurt his HC chances further that were already ice cold.  And I think its substantially more likely Frazier took exception to this and was facing accepting it, getting fired, or quitting.  

 

Both McD and Beane seem to have a great respect for Frazier as a person, they are always talking him up for HC opportunities.  So this weird story seems more like Frazier electing to "take a year off" to mitigate potential damage to his HC aspirations rather than get demoted, fired, or have to outright quit and the team being supportive of that out of respect for him and his personal goals.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Nihilarian]

They simply didn't offer him a new contract! The easiest way to settle fans down from Bills fans still raging about the 13 seconds from 2021.

 

The Bills probably would have kept him as DC if there hadn't been such an uproar of disapproval about the way the season ended for Buffalo this season too. The thing is it wasn't just the defense falling short as the offense only scored 10 points. Allen sacked only once but under pressure almost every snap with no run game it was all on Allen...again!

 

Buffalo's run game against Cincy, was 19 attempts for 64 yards, and 1 TD. Allen himself had 8 of 26 yards and 1 TD. So, the Buffalo RBs, Singletary 6 for 25 yards, a 4.2 YPC AVG. Cook 5 for 13, a 2.6 YPC AVG.  

 

Diggs had 10 targets, and 4 receptions for 35 yards. Knox was the leading receiver with 7 targets, and 5 receptions for 65 yards. The Bengal's defense swarmed Allen and held his receivers in check. 

 

Another thought is that Cincy felt disrespected in that they were selling tickets to the AFC Championship in Atlanta. They really brought the heat to Buffalo on both sides of the ball.

 

As for Leslie Frazier, when you have a bad team change is good. When you have a good team change is sometimes bad. We will see.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Would a team really want a guy back as DC if he needed to take a year off?

 

Is anyone going to sign on as DC if it’s being treated as a 1-year keep-the-seat warm gig?

 

For both questions:

 

[Ya Digg?]

3 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

They simply didn't offer him a new contract! The easiest way to settle fans down from Bills fans still raging about the 13 seconds from 2021.

 

The Bills probably would have kept him as DC if there hadn't been such an uproar of disapproval about the way the season ended for Buffalo this season too. The thing is it wasn't just the defense falling short as the offense only scored 10 points. Allen sacked only once but under pressure almost every snap with no run game it was all on Allen...again!

 

Buffalo's run game against Cincy, was 19 attempts for 64 yards, and 1 TD. Allen himself had 8 of 26 yards and 1 TD. So, the Buffalo RBs, Singletary 6 for 25 yards, a 4.2 YPC AVG. Cook 5 for 13, a 2.6 YPC AVG.  

 

Diggs had 10 targets, and 4 receptions for 35 yards. Knox was the leading receiver with 7 targets, and 5 receptions for 65 yards. The Bengal's defense swarmed Allen and held his receivers in check. 

 

Another thought is that Cincy felt disrespected in that they were selling tickets to the AFC Championship in Atlanta. They really brought the heat to Buffalo on both sides of the ball.

 

As for Leslie Frazier, when you have a bad team change is good. When you have a good team change is sometimes bad. We will see.  

I actually found this comical with how much it was blown out of proportion. It’s great that they left out little details like, oh by the way, the Bengals were also selling tickets just in case the Jags won. Didn’t fit the national narrative or the stories the bengals wanted people to believe

[dave mcbride]

39 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

15 points, is that all?  (rummage, rummage):

 

3 points after interception/49 yd return gave Mia the ball on the Buffalo 48.  Gained 18 yds (including 13 yds on 4th and '8)

3 points after 50 yd return of 47 yd punt to Buffalo 27.  Gained 8 yds (but special teams play doesn't matter, I read it here)

6 points after interception/29 yd return gave MIA the ball on the Buffalo 18

7 points by MIA Defense after strip sack on 13 yd line/fumble recover TD

 

I make that 19 points as a result of offensive turnovers and bad ST, or maybe I just don't understand how you're looking at it?

 

The thing is, even on those series where points resulted from offensive or ST miscues - the D gave up plays like a conversion on 4th and 8.

And another scoring drive, not resulting from Buf offensive turnovers,was sustained by a 19 yd pass to Tyreek Hill on 3rd and 19.

 

So it can't be said our D played well against the Dolphins.

 

The way I look at points given up is as follows: if a defense forces a turnover in the opponent's end and is automatically in FG range, holding them to a FG is giving up 0 points. The FG is basically automatic and the defense had nothing to do with the team being in FG position. If they give up a 2 point conversion, that's on the D (Miami had one of those). I did not assign the 3 given up by the Bills on the drive where Miami started from the Bills 48 after the pick. That's a judgment call, but they only gave up 18 yards on 7 plays (yes, I realize they gave up a fourth, but Miami is never going for it on fourth and 8 unless they're gifted a possession in the Bills end--another contextual factor). They had one legit TD drive, a TD after a TO in FG range plus a 2 pt conversion (5 points), and a legit FG drive (although they were gifted a possession at the 40 because of a terrible kickoff). 

 

It boils down to how you view the turnover that put Miami at the Bills 48, but if you hold an offense to 18 yards and one first down on 7 plays, that's not bad D. And the D was put in a possession where Miami going for it on 4th and 8 was a plausible option. 

Actually, I have them giving up 15, not 16: the FG drive that began at the Miami 40, the 5 points on the TD after the turnover that put them inside the Bills' 30, and the 75 yard TD drive in the second half. 16 were basically gifted to Miami by the Bills offense and ST.

As for the Bills' D not playing well: Miami had 231 total yards, averaged 3.3 yards per play, and turned it over twice. The team QB rating for Miami factoring in sacks was 41.8, which is miserable. They averaged 2.1 yards rushing and 3.9 yards per pass play. Collectively, those numbers point to a dominant performance by the Bills D, which basically saved the team given all of the miscues by Allen and the ST. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by dave mcbride

[newcam2012]

7 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

This is just simply not true at all. Frustration this year yes, but up until this year that wasn’t the case

Did you see Diggs on the sideline conplaining? Frustration absolutely equates to displeasure. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Take all the time you need, Coach! Can’t promise a spot on your return, but you’ve earned the time off! 🥳

@Ridgewaycynic2013 is furiously making the abacus sing to get us the appropriate information! 

[Patrick Duffy]

5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

100% spot on. The only thing that changes is McD doesn't have Fraizer as his fall guy. 

Well,  in any event we should be able to learn more about the situation when we see the defense next season. 

[Ya Digg?]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

Did you see Diggs on the sideline conplaining? Frustration absolutely equates to displeasure. 

Yes I did say they showed some this year (Diggs did, Allen never has) but your statement was they have always shown displeasure. I agree this year, and even then, the latter part of the season, but not always

[Nihilarian]

1 minute ago, Ya Digg? said:

I actually found this comical with how much it was blown out of proportion. It’s great that they left out little details like, oh by the way, the Bengals were also selling tickets just in case the Jags won. Didn’t fit the national narrative or the stories the bengals wanted people to believe

I went by all the comments from Bengal players after the game...“See y’all in Atlanta"! From a Bengal player shouting to fans after the game.

 

Joe Burrow, "Better send those refunds,” and he said “Domination from start to finish,”. They were fired up...and Buffalo was flat. 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, papazoid said:

look for recently hired Al Holcomb to get the job as DC

 

I thought it was interesting that in Beane's presser, discussing the defensive minds we have, he named Bobby Babitch, Al Holcomb, John Butler, Eric Washington - in that order.

 

I don't think that's necessarily consistent with Al Holcomb being the internal frontrunner for the DC job.

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

 

I know you will disagree and many others will too. Next year you may be singing a different time. 

 

 

Next year I might be. But that won't mean I will think you are right to want a change now, even if I also want a change in a year's time.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Given a choice between Wawrow as a source and almost everyone else covering the Bills, I would take @john wawrow.    He is required by his AP contract to verify everything with 2 sources with direct knowledge.  When he's opining, you can put his opinion in the kettle with everyone else, but when he's stating something definitive, it's typically Bank.

 

I could be wrong, but I believe NFL coaches contracts run the same way that other NFL contracts run - from the start of the league year, until just before the start of the next.  So the question Wawrow would be answering is "is Wawrow under contract for the 2023 season?" and the answer would apparently be "yes".  And it would be very unlike Wawrow to dance around a technicality, such as saying "his contract has NOT expired" when it's actually due to expire in a month.

 

Interesting bit in Beane's combine presser about 1 minute in:

Reporter: "When you say return to coaching, do you mean that will be with the Bills?"

Beane: "I don't know that yet.  I think what we're going to do is just take this year off, and let this year be, and cross that in 2024"

 

That doesn't sound like the GM of a coach who is not under contract with the Bills at least through 2024, IMO

 

I normally wouldn't suggest that Wawrow was trying to skate by on a technicality, but there was an awful lot of smoke about Frazier's contract expiring this offseason after the Bengals loss, AND Wawrow's tweet was a little ambiguous. Now we get this bizarre story of Frazier "taking a year off" with no explanation given. 

[newcam2012]

41 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

Well,  in any event we should be able to learn more about the situation when we see the defense next season. 

Truthfully, I'm not concerned about the defense at all. It's clear they won't step it up in the playoffs. It's a recurring theme for years now under McD.

 

So why even bother investing in the flawed McD scheme. Granted it's a nice regular season D. 

 

Let's let the D fall where it falls. Contrentrate on building the offense. Give Allen weapons and protection. Solid play calling and offensive schemes and cohesiveness. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by newcam2012

[Process]

It seems like most people are assuming this was a polite way of firing him. If I had to guess I think the Bills and McBeane are being sincere in that it was Frazier's decision and they weren't the ones that wanted to move on. If they wanted to show him respect they wouldn't have waited until all the other coordinator jobs around the league were filled. 

 

Regardless, he's gone, and that's exciting, even though it's unlikely things change much.

[Ya Digg?]

6 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I went by all the comments from Bengal players after the game...“See y’all in Atlanta"! From a Bengal player shouting to fans after the game.

 

Joe Burrow, "Better send those refunds,” and he said “Domination from start to finish,”. They were fired up...and Buffalo was flat. 

Oh the Bengals certainly used it as motivation that’s for sure…in the end that’s what matters