How bad were the Bills receivers this year? Hint really really bad

[T master]

There were some very uncharacteristic drops this past year some very routine completions at times seemed to be very hard to come by then you have Diggs which today i rematched the Vikings game he had a 1 handed grab that was unreal that guy is money all day every day .

 

But the rest of them i hope to see come back to their normal selves when it comes to snagging passes Gabe & Knox both had a couple but i have faith in them then add Shakir if he gets his chances i think he will be more productive this season .

 

I like Mckenzie but i think they can do better for the money yes he does returns but so does Shakir so save the money get a young up & comer in the draft & or maybe a Vet on a minimum/prove it type contract like OBJ with incentives in the contract for completions & yards . 

 

I think that could be done . 

Edited February 26, 2023 by T master

[LyndonvilleBill]

5 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 

I dont know what made the Offense drop off so much.

 The O line was struggling Josh was struggling and the Offense in general was struggling.
Did McD lose his team ?

Plenty of blame to go around I suppose . Hopefully all fixable 

Culmination of things. New OC, Oline changes, Josh hurting his elbow, wr had too many drops, keeping Knox in as a blocker instead of being an extra weapon more than in the past. Multiple injuries to the D and one heck of a challenging year on and off the field.

 

Even with all of that, we were 13-3, won the division and a playoff game. May not have ended the way we would have liked,  but you've got to give the entire team credit for hanging tough and achieving what they did under the circumstances. 

 

I am confident with a couple of small tweaks and some people gaining some experience,  we will be right back in the mix of things this year. 😁

[MrEpsYtown]

I think they need to shift their philosophy a bit in terms of the guys they seem to target at the receiver position. It seems that route running and speed seems to be the focus, I think focus needs to change to get guys who catch everything and make contested catches. Like who is the next George Pickens, Mike Evans? Josh throws the ball hard, and some of the balls he throws are bad balls, but they are in the vicinity. Guys like McKenzie and Davis seem to need everything to go perfect for them to come down with a pass. Those guys don’t help us. Find guys who catch everything and make contested catches…I know…easier said than done. But that is what Josh needs. 
 

At the same time, if the line is better, Josh has the time to be more precise and accurate. In that situation, that route running is key. 
 

So pick a path, and make it happen. 

[newcam2012]

6 hours ago, Dopey said:

What are some of you complaining about?
2nd in yds per game

2nd in points per game 

we lost 3 regular season games by 3 points each. Josh was the issue in 2 of those losses. He was injured in the Jets game, but was having a bad game before the injury. I can’t believe First Round Bust brought up the Minnesota game as an indictment on the receivers. The receivers actually had a good game. Josh totally gave Minny that game.
I’m not bashing Josh , but who led the league in interceptions? Josh also left points off the board in the Cincy game. He also has to learn there are hot routes, underneath routes. Not just hero ball long throws after he decides to run out of the pocket because he doesn’t see them or refuses to use the short stuff. Josh isn’t 💯 innocent here.
If you all really feel offense was an issue, at least acknowledge Josh had his shortcomings too. 
Oh, and tuck the ball when you take off running. 
Oh, and learn to SLIDE when running. Wouldn’t trade Josh for anyone except for Mahomes, but even Josh can improve to help get us to the ultimate goal. 

After all this, I’m happy where this franchise is and they will be one of the faves again next year. As they should. 

Being favorites means nothing. Last year proved it. 

 

Of course Josh can be better. However, he's far from the problem for this Bills squad.

 

You need to take a serious look at both lines, WRs, and coaches. 

 

Allen is on the bottom of the list of problems. He has to play at such a high standard because he's basically the whole team. It's hard to play Superman every game. It's hard to produce when you have a rookie OC that had no cohesiveness. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

22 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think they need to shift their philosophy a bit in terms of the guys they seem to target at the receiver position. It seems that route running and speed seems to be the focus, I think focus needs to change to get guys who catch everything and make contested catches. Like who is the next George Pickens, Mike Evans? Josh throws the ball hard, and some of the balls he throws are bad balls, but they are in the vicinity. Guys like McKenzie and Davis seem to need everything to go perfect for them to come down with a pass. Those guys don’t help us. Find guys who catch everything and make contested catches…I know…easier said than done. But that is what Josh needs. 
 

At the same time, if the line is better, Josh has the time to be more precise and accurate. In that situation, that route running is key. 
 

So pick a path, and make it happen. 

So basically,  we need Diggs jr.😉😁

[DCofNC]

14 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I would actually trade Oliver over Davis because he would get more
 

Over $10 million in cap space

Probably at least the third round pick or a second and a fifth

 

They’re not trading both

 

Trade Oliver bring in a veteran, solid, three tech and draft one

 

Use that $10 million in cap space on the office of line

I’m all for trading Oliver, but there’s ZERO chance you are getting a 2nd round pick back for a guy that’s not impactful enough that you want to keep him, on a 1 year deal, worth 10M, guaranteed, non-negotiable.  A 5th would be a win.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

58 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Josh cant be part of the problem?

 What's the common denominator here ?

 There are two

Josh ( i love him )
Ken Dorsey ( i do not love him)
Why did Davis fall so far after last years post season ?
 

hint

 its not the WRs so much.

people trying to pin offensive woes on WRs alone should explain why the superbowl champs WR room consisted a bunch of wr3s at best. 
 

it has to be a completely different game for the o line and d line when EVERYONE knows the ball isn’t coming out fast or short ever. 
 

This is an OC, QB and WR opportunity that needs improvement 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

When you have players who can't execute the offense, things look disjointed. When you call a play and Allen takes the deep bomb over and over despite underneath routes being there for the taking, things look disjointed.

 

I'm sure Dorsey can improve. It was his first year. But the offense needs more talent, especially a better oline. Once you have good players who play well together, it's amazing how your offense can just click and get into a good rhythm.

Agree, we need a big influx of above average talent on the line and WR, I’m just not completely confident Beane will actually do it, and I don’t think I’m alone on this. Beane is going to have to dump some salary to achieve this, it will be interesting to watch this unfold. 
 

GO BILLS!!!

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Being favorites means nothing. Last year proved it. 

 

Of course Josh can be better. However, he's far from the problem for this Bills squad.

 

You need to take a serious look at both lines, WRs, and coaches. 

 

Allen is on the bottom of the list of problems. He has to play at such a high standard because he's basically the whole team. It's hard to play Superman every game. It's hard to produce when you have a rookie OC that had no cohesiveness. 

That’s all I’m trying to convey here. Of all the “blame” threads on TBD, Allen gets a pass and I’m simply reminding some of his issues. I never said Josh is THE problem. I love him being a Bill. He’s manning the most important position on offense, but he’s hardly the whole team, much less the whole offense. Let’s not forget, we were 2nd in the league in points per game and yards per game. Allen DID NOT do that on his own. 
Here’s a good one I see here, a lot: Where would we be without Allen? Why do people here do that to themselves? We would be in the same place as KC without Mahomes, NE and Tampa without Tom, Cincy without Burrow, etc., etc. 

[MJS]

21 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Agree, we need a big influx of above average talent on the line and WR, I’m just not completely confident Beane will actually do it, and I don’t think I’m alone on this. Beane is going to have to dump some salary to achieve this, it will be interesting to watch this unfold. 
 

GO BILLS!!!

I don't even think it needs to be a big influx. Get a good #2 receiver. Move Bates back to LG. Bring in a good RG. Draft a tackle or sign a tackle to compete with Spencer Brown. Davis goes back to being the 3rd/4th WR and flourishes with less attention from the defense. That's all you really need.

 

You can do more, of course. But the offense doesn't need an overhaul. It needs some key pieces.

[CoudyBills]

21 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

So lets draft a safety # 1.

Damn you, everyone knows we are going D-end

[Thurman#1]

22 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Our friend Tim Graham over at the Athletic broke down just had ridiculously bad the Bills receiving corps was this year 

 

 

 

Um, no.

 

You've vastly mis-represented what Graham actually broke down.

 

He didn't break down how ridiculously bad the Bills receiving corps were this year.

 

He broke down how ridiculously bad the Bills pass  ... in one facet of the game.

 

And he's right. At drops they were really bad. And that's sure not good, at all. But it's also not everything a wide receiver does. It affects 6% of the Bills passes.

 

There's another 94%.

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Being favorites means nothing. Last year proved it. 

 

Of course Josh can be better. However, he's far from the problem for this Bills squad.

 

You need to take a serious look at both lines, WRs, and coaches. 

 

Allen is on the bottom of the list of problems. He has to play at such a high standard because he's basically the whole team. It's hard to play Superman every game. It's hard to produce when you have a rookie OC that had no cohesiveness. 

 

 

Yeah, being favorites means nothing.

 

But being a really really good team means a hell of a lot. And the Bills show every sign of being a really really good team.

 

You keep focusing in on the final game this last year, because that's what fits your narrative best. And in that game, Allen was not good. 

 

Nor was anyone else. But the whole offense, coaches and players, including Allen, played really bad, below their level.

 

3 hours ago, MJS said:

I don't even think it needs to be a big influx. Get a good #2 receiver. Move Bates back to LG. Bring in a good RG. Draft a tackle or sign a tackle to compete with Spencer Brown. Davis goes back to being the 3rd/4th WR and flourishes with less attention from the defense. That's all you really need.

 

You can do more, of course. But the offense doesn't need an overhaul. It needs some key pieces.

 

Yup. This.

[newcam2012]

54 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, being favorites means nothing.

 

But being a really really good team means a hell of a lot. And the Bills show every sign of being a really really good team.

 

You keep focusing in on the final game this last year, because that's what fits your narrative best. And in that game, Allen was not good. 

 

Nor was anyone else. But the whole offense, coaches and players, including Allen, played really bad, below their level.

 

 

Yup. This.

Ok Thurman obviously you have issues with what I say. So let me go a different route. 

 

GM Beane 2021 press conference statement after KC playoff loss. 

 

"I still think we have to be very honest with where we’re at – we’re still not a Super Bowl team,” he said candidly during an hour-long season-ending Zoom call with reporters. “There’s one team happy at the end of the year. We made a great step last year in ’19 from ’18 and another step this year. We still have to go further. The goal here is to win that thing. Until we get in that game to compete for it, we can’t win it. So it wasn’t good enough this year.

 

Does it still apply after the Cinci game?

Edited February 27, 2023 by newcam2012

[Mark Vader]

6 hours ago, Steptide said:

I didn't read all the replies, but are there legitimately people saying Josh is the issue? Josh isn't blameless, but I think 99% of bills fans would agree we need to upgrade the wr group

There are "Bills fans" on this board who insist that Josh Allen is a problem.

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

people trying to pin offensive woes on WRs alone should explain why the superbowl champs WR room consisted a bunch of wr3s at best. 
 

it has to be a completely different game for the o line and d line when EVERYONE knows the ball isn’t coming out fast or short ever. 
 

This is an OC, QB and WR opportunity that needs improvement 

Well if you have a good O line like KC then your elite QB can make a bunch of JAGS at WR and the greatest TE in NFL history look great.

 

The Bills offensive problems have NOTHING to do with Allen.  Fix the O line and add 1 or 2 improved play makers and the Bills have the best O in the NFL.  As it is and even with a very bad O line and limited play makers the Bills had one of the best offensives in the NFL.  You know why? Josh Freaking Allen.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

There are "Bills fans" on this board who insist that Josh Allen is a problem.

And I think they're nuts.  They're either not Bills fans and are trolling this board or they still haven't gotten over being 100% wrong on draft night 2018 when Buffalo took Allen. There is simply no way a thinking Bills fan can point to Allen as a problem on the Bills offense.

 

 

[DrPJax]

On 2/25/2023 at 9:30 PM, 78thealltimegreat said:

Our friend Tim Graham over at the Athletic broke down just had ridiculously bad the Bills receiving corps was this year 

     Hence, it was easy to see why the WR coach hall was let go/ contract not renewed early in the offseason   With poor route running  ( 2 guys frequently in the same area ), no one other than Diggs making any consistent plays, this wr group seemed like one of the poorer performing groups seen in an offense that was so strongly based around the passing game  Even KC with their very talented qb understood the need to still have an effective running game

 

       Josh is a very good qb, but he is not a Brady, and so far he is not as good as Mahomes over a full season Or in the playoffs   That might change , but  that is just a result based fact at this point, like it or not if you are a Bills loyalist   He is an amazing , great team guy , but has not reached that elite level YET in decision making and this offensive staff keeps forcing him to play without run support behind a very avg o line , and his few flaws get exposed ( the ints, especially in the red zone this year, and his less than stellar situational awareness at times , and his fumbling even tho they didn’t lose them all, they came at times that killed drives).  

 

     The staff had to be aware during the year that so many drops and the other issues mentioned were occurring , yet they continued game plans that rarely increased the number of rush attempts and I would also argue, slowed the development of Cook by using a grossly ineffective moss early and then the benching after his fumble  

     Josh is a star , but not better than Manning , or Elway at this point , and its doubtful they can fix the wr corp and o line in 1 off season as they haven’t done it  yet in 5 years!  If they persist in throwing so much just because they have a very good QB, and ignore what SB CHAMPS  kc did bolstering their passing game with a power running game as well, they will repeat Marino’s SB success with Josh   He needs better WRs  without doubt, but if they refuse to augment Josh with a consistent run game , i think they will waste his years and career here because other than the Pats & Brady, I can’t remember a  team so one dimensional being a SB champion unless it was an extremely unusual year ( like when the ravens won with Dilfer and defense)

 

     Those wr stats for a predominantly passing team are  abysmal and  their judgment regarding wr talent they chose to keep on their roster was questionable, as we lost another player we drafted. These type of stats are a warning about this staff; they are seemingly willing to force a system rather than adjust based on realtime  results and all they focus on is maximizing how to allow Josh to throw, and this narrow focus  is allowing teams like Philly, Cincy to bypass us and be on par with KC,  and maybe Miami , the Browns & Jets ( with better qb play ) could bypass us soon  as they can run the ball and don’t depend solely on passing, even in short yardage  as we do.  

     The O started out great early, in good weather when players were fresh and less injured, but with worsening weather and injuries happened as games passed, the reliance  on passing without run support began faltering.   Running not only helps Josh, but lessens the physical punishment for the wrs as well, and punishes the opposing D.   Our vaunted D tends to wilt late , yet we never learn that lesson and so far , we have wasted valuable playoff years.  We need more talent on O, but with the same playcalling, I’m not sure we will see improved results .   That paragraph cited is alarming   

 

 

 

 

0

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Ok Thurman obviously you have issues with what I say. So let me go a different route. 

 

GM Beane 2021 press conference statement after KC playoff loss. 

 

"I still think we have to be very honest with where we’re at – we’re still not a Super Bowl team,” he said candidly during an hour-long season-ending Zoom call with reporters. “There’s one team happy at the end of the year. We made a great step last year in ’19 from ’18 and another step this year. We still have to go further. The goal here is to win that thing. Until we get in that game to compete for it, we can’t win it. So it wasn’t good enough this year.

 

Does it still apply after the Cinci game?

 

 

Yeah, it still applies for 31 teams.

 

And we're still looking very competitive for next year.

 

 

9 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

There are "Bills fans" on this board who insist that Josh Allen is a problem.

 

 

Yeah, a few trolls. Virtually nobody else.

 

Plenty of Bills fans reasonably say that he was part of the problem in the Cincy game. He was. He, and the entire team, didn't play well. And we have to remember that he is still recovering from a partially torn ligament in his throwing arm.

 

Other than the trolls, are there really people out there arguing that Josh is a problem going forward? I haven't seen 'em but I don't look at every thread and post.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Neo]

To the learned.  Much was said about QBs and teaching accuracy.  Can you teach WRs “hands”?

[Dopey]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Somebody’s got to catch the passes as he evades linemen after his offensive line breaks down and turns the play into backyard football... 2nd in the league in PPG because Josh is an incredible player at the most valuable position in the sport…. They are subpar on offense outside of him and Diggs. 

I don’t need your help proving my point, but thanks. 
The rest of your post is Josh ball licking. He’s really good, but has his share of issues. 
Some of you take this Josh thing too personal. I bring up his issues and people like cincybillsfan and mark vader claim we’re saying he’s the problem. That’s not what I said.  He has his share of issues, but never said he is the problem. 
cincybillsfan quote: “The Bills offensive problems have NOTHING to do with Allen. “
He was far from perfect and led the league in interceptions, had a few too many fumbles. 

But, again, what’s with all the bitching? 
2nd in yds per game 

2nd in points per game 

Some of this bitching is down right ridiculous. Allen is out there playing golf, while you guys sit here bitching.