Stadium Renderings Part 2

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It should be paid for in PSLs. 

 

So….. the season ticket holders who will already see much higher prices? That is not an answer that avoids more pain for others. 

 

My bad, I should never have gotten into the whole dome/no dome and who pays for it argument. (Forget where to put it!) Have fun with this. I’d have been happy anywhere in WNY. I don’t need a palace to make me love my team more, and you get what you pay for. 

 

My point was, I can’t tell much of anything from what I’ve seen so far. 

 

.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Augie

[Buffalo Super Fan]

22 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Well then kick in and pay for the upgrade! It’s that simple. Do you have an extra billion or so laying around? Should I assume the owner should foot this whole bill for you? Or do you want more from the taxpayers too? It’s always easy, when it’s not your money. 

 

WNY is not LA or Vegas or Atlanta, and we all know that. It’s easier if we just accept that reality. 

 

Oh, and I’ve got news for you, I prefer the Ralph to the Falcons stadium. Bills home games feel more like football games to me.

 

 

. 

Are you going to be saying that when Buffalo, Western New York continues to fall further behind the country to a point that Western New York can no longer house NFL football and NHL hockey? Because Western New York made poor economic decisions and never corrected the poor economic decisions from the past because it was too hard?
 

Think about that I am old 55 years old but this generational project decision isn’t any better than the last time it’s the exact same decision made. Again this doesn’t affect me the Buffalo Bills are here for 15 years ironclad so I am 70 plus years old when the Buffalo Bills can option out of the new Buffalo Bills stadium and it simply won’t matter anymore when I am real old. The younger generation is going to be affected by this generational stadium mistake again like my generation was by elders at the time. Forget Terry Pegula he is 71 years old it doesn’t affect him he is in Florida this affects Western New York we live here in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Buffalo Super Fan

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Are you going to be saying that when Buffalo, Western New York continues to fall further behind the country to a point that Western New York can no longer house NFL football and NHL hockey? Because Western New York made poor economic decisions and never corrected the poor economic decisions from the past because it was too hard?
 

Think about that I am old 55 years old but this generational project decision isn’t any better than the last time it’s the exact same decision made. Again this doesn’t affect me the Buffalo Bills are here for 15 years ironclad so I am 70 plus years old when the Buffalo Bills can option out of the new Buffalo Bills stadium and it simply won’t matter anymore when I am real old. The younger generation is going to be affected by this generational stadium mistake again like my generation was by elders at the time. Forget Terry Pegula he is 71 years old it doesn’t affect him he is in Florida this affects Western New York we live here in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

Your leaps in logic were almost disorienting! I said Buffalo is not LA or Vegas or Atlanta, some of the sites of the stadiums he compared to ours. Compared to most of the league, the new stadium will be a fine experience. And I’m older than you are. Maybe just a little less grumpy?  😋

[Jrb1979]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Your leaps in logic were almost disorienting! I said Buffalo is not LA or Vegas or Atlanta, some of the sites of the stadiums he compared to ours. Compared to most of the league, the new stadium will be a fine experience. And I’m older than you are. Maybe just a little less grumpy?  😋

For the older generation this stadium works just fine. The problem is if they want to get the 40 and under generation to go to games you need it to be on the level of those stadiums.  It's already a hard sell for fans in December and January games. The Bengals game should never had that many Bengals fans in attendance. 

[BillsFan2313]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Are you going to be saying that when Buffalo, Western New York continues to fall further behind the country to a point that Western New York can no longer house NFL football and NHL hockey? Because Western New York made poor economic decisions and never corrected the poor economic decisions from the past because it was too hard?
 

Think about that I am old 55 years old but this generational project decision isn’t any better than the last time it’s the exact same decision made. Again this doesn’t affect me the Buffalo Bills are here for 15 years ironclad so I am 70 plus years old when the Buffalo Bills can option out of the new Buffalo Bills stadium and it simply won’t matter anymore when I am real old. The younger generation is going to be affected by this generational stadium mistake again like my generation was by elders at the time. Forget Terry Pegula he is 71 years old it doesn’t affect him he is in Florida this affects Western New York we live here in my opinion. Go Bills! 

 

 Didn't the disbute between the state and seneca nation come to an end, with the state receiving $564 million, and $414 million of that, going into the $600 million being paid by the state?

[Einstein]

36 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Well then kick in and pay for the upgrade! It’s that simple.

 

I’m already paying my part of the close to billion dollars NYS & Erie County gave them.

 

I will then pay even more via PSL which will go toward the NFL money they got for the stadium.

 

Pegula is paying very little of this project.

 

[BillsFan2313]

3 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

For the older generation this stadium works just fine. The problem is if they want to get the 40 and under generation to go to games you need it to be on the level of those stadiums.  It's already a hard sell for fans in December and January games. The Bengals game should never had that many Bengals fans in attendance. 

 

I honselty think we have to wait on more details within the stadium. One thing that was noted, is that the game experience in the stadium is going to be much better. Radiant heating, like the club seats have will also be throughout the stadiums. I don't really care how it looks from the outside (although I dont think it looks terrible). IMO, it is all about the experience inside. 

[Einstein]

 

36 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It should be paid for in PSLs. 

 

That would be great but I think I read the PSL’s are already earmarked to pay for the NFL loan and Pegula’s portion.

 

When all is said and done, Pegula will likely pay for about 10%~ of the stadium.

 

The crazy part is that some of problems with the stadium could be fixed without spending much extra money. Reallocate funds. It is SO generic.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

For the older generation this stadium works just fine. The problem is if they want to get the 40 and under generation to go to games you need it to be on the level of those stadiums.  It's already a hard sell for fans in December and January games. The Bengals game should never had that many Bengals fans in attendance. 

 

Don’t try to make it an age thing. I took my sons to WNY for Bills home games when they turned 16 as a rite of passage. My youngest son went last year for his 30th Bday as gift from his wife, and he’s gone many times in between. 

 

There are only a few over the top mega-stadiums, and they are all in huge markets. Go to Pittsburgh or Green Bay or Cincinnati or Cleveland or Baltimore or Jacksonville or KC or Tampa or Nashville (currently). Most places are just “fine”. A few are over the top. Nothing wrong with a fine stadium. Just WIN! 

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

One thing that was noted, is that the game experience in the stadium is going to be much better. Radiant heating, like the club seats have will also be throughout the stadiums. 

 

I wish that were true, but I read that radiant heating will still only be in the VIP areas.

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I’m already paying my part of the close to billion dollars NYS & Erie County gave them.

 

I will then pay even more via PSL which will go toward the NFL money they got for the stadium.

 

Pegula is paying very little of this project.

 

 

Easy to say with someone else’s billion. You always have the option to vote with your feet. They won’t take it personally. 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

There are only a few over the top mega-stadiums

 

Every single new stadium (except ours).

 

1 minute ago, Augie said:

and they are all in huge markets.

 

But those huge markets gave LESS public funds. So what’s the difference? Their owner is more generous? 

 

1 minute ago, Augie said:

Go to Pittsburgh or Green Bay or Cincinnati or Cleveland or Baltimore or Jacksonville or KC or Tampa or Nashville (currently). Most places are just “fine”. A few are over the top. Nothing wrong with a fine stadium. Just WIN! 

 

KC - 51 years old stadium

Pittsburgh - 22 year old stadium

Green Bay - 66 year old stadium 

Cleveland - 24 year old stadium 

Tampa - 25 year old stadium

Jacksonville - 28 year old stadium

Baltimore - 25 year old stadium

 

You kinda made my point. Our new $1.4B stadium is most closely compared to 20-60 year old stadiums. That’s a tough investment.

[Jrb1979]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Don’t try to make it an age thing. I took my sons to WNY for Bills home games when they turned 16 as a rite of passage. My youngest son went last year for his 30th Bday as gift from his wife, and he’s gone many times in between. 

 

There are only a few over the top mega-stadiums, and they are all in huge markets. Go to Pittsburgh or Green Bay or Cincinnati or Cleveland or Baltimore or Jacksonville or KC or Tampa or Nashville (currently). Most places are just “fine”. A few are over the top. Nothing wrong with a fine stadium. Just WIN! 

Yes they are just fine but they were also built well before these new wave of stadiums.  Personally I would rather they built something similar to what Nashville is building. Winning only takes you so far. 

 

December and January games have been a hard sell even when they are winning. Since a dome isn't happening then hopefully the amenities are majorly updated. I'm talking having all the micro breweries having a vendor in the stadium, a bar/ restaurant in one of the corners over looking the field. I would love if they took a page from Progressive field and have an area for kids and families to hangout. 

 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Every single new stadium (except ours).

 

 

But those huge markets gave LESS public funds. So what’s the difference? Their owner is more generous? 

 

 

KC - 51 years old stadium

Pittsburgh - 22 year old stadium

Green Bay - 66 year old stadium 

Cleveland - 24 year old stadium 

Tampa - 25 year old stadium

Jacksonville - 28 year old stadium

Baltimore - 25 year old stadium

 

You kinda made my point. Our new $1.4B stadium is most closely compared to 20-60 year old stadiums. That’s a tough investment.

 

Are you too prissy to be outside? Does the weather bother you too? 

 

You do not get more stadium than you need unless you have other ways to use it. The Nashville stadium is fine, but that city is a world class attraction. I get it.  The places with older stadiums don’t need any more than they have. They’re fine. 

 

This is a ridiculous conversation. We know almost NOTHING about the new stadium, yet some people just have to complain. Have a nice life, it must be tough. 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Are you too prissy to be outside? Does the weather bother you too? 

 

You do not get more stadium than you need unless you have other ways to use it. The Nashville stadium is fine, but that city is a world class attraction. I get it.  The places with older stadiums don’t need any more than they have. They’re fine. 

 

This is a ridiculous conversation. We know almost NOTHING about the new stadium, yet some people just have to complain. Have a nice life, it must be tough. 

 

I’d rather have a dome but the outside stadium doesn’t bother me. I never mentioned that at all. I said it looks boring, unappealing and there is nothing distinctive. None of that has to do with a dome.

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Yes they are just fine but they were also built well before these new wave of stadiums.  Personally I would rather they built something similar to what Nashville is building. Winning only takes you so far. 

 

December and January games have been a hard sell even when they are winning. Since a dome isn't happening then hopefully the amenities are majorly updated. I'm talking having all the micro breweries having a vendor in the stadium, a bar/ restaurant in one of the corners over looking the field. I would love if they took a page from Progressive field and have an area for kids and families to hangout. 

 

 

How well do you know Nashville? We used to have a property in Green Hills just south of Belmont and Vandy. I love the city! I fear they can’t handle the growth, but it’s not my problem. 

 

Nashville gets a fancy new dome because they can have 100k+ people show up on any given weekend for some random event or convention. Like pretty much every weekend! They need more venues! WNY? Not so much. 

 

I’m tired of pointing out the obvious. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Augie

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

How well do you know Nashville? We used to have a property in Green Hills Jay south of Belmont and Vandy. I love the city! I fear they can’t handle the growth, but it’s not my problem. 

 

Nashville gets a fancy new dome because they can have 100k+ people show up on any given weekend for some random event or convention. Like pretty much every weekend! They need more venues! WNY? Not so much. 

 

I’m tired of pointing out the obvious. 

I get it. Buffalo isn't a major city and is a small market. They don't need anything fancy or over the top. It just needs to be good enough and to not price out the market. 

[Einstein]

30 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I get it. Buffalo isn't a major city and is a small market. They don't need anything fancy or over the top. It just needs to be good enough and to not price out the market. 

 

Titans averaged 68,615 attendance per game in 2022

Bills averaged 68,431 attendance per game in 2022.

 

So for that much bigger fancy city, they only got a minuscule higher number of attendees.

 

Thats why they get the nicer stadium? I don’t get it.

I guess it’s all about conventions. The 4 or 5 per year.

[Jrb1979]

57 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Titans averaged 68,615 attendance per game in 2022

Bills averaged 68,431 attendance per game in 2022.

 

So for that much bigger fancy city, they only got a minuscule higher number of attendees.

 

Thats why they get the nicer stadium? I don’t get it.

I guess it’s all about conventions. The 4 or 5 per year.

IMO I think why many don't want a huge over the top stadium is the cost for tickets at that kind of stadium. Many would be priced out. 

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Or the billionaire owner could contribute a bit more.

 

I don’t like Kroenke all that much but I give him credit for writing a $5B check for his stadium.

 

Edit: Robert Kraft too

 

I hear you, but this is an almost entirely different topic.

 

Amongst the parties involved, I think Terry is the big winner here. He gets to outlay as little as possible for the new stadium while keeping the Bills where he wants for a reasonably long time, likely for as long as he will be able to function as an owner.

 

He has 5 children and who knows if they'll ever find an agreement on whether to keep, sell, or possibly move the team somewhere else once it's their decision to make. I would venture to guess that their emotional attachment to Buffalo is less than Terry's or Kim's.

 

Terry is a wise business man and this is the cheapest bandaid he could buy.

 

That being said, I'll go back to my original point. It appears to me that the fans in Minnesota, to name a somewhat comparable market, got significantly more value for money with their stadium, with a roofed structure and much bolder and distinctive design and solutions.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by McDeerInTheHeadlights