Stadium Renderings Part 2

[QCity]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

Im so tired of this discussion. You know NFL players don’t want to play in Buffalo. It’s nothing against the fans or the city. They don’t want to play here.

 

 

And that's where you're wrong. It's not about playing here, they don't want to live here. Plan to build a dome that encompasses the city?

[Dick_Cheney]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Building an outdoor stadium in one of the worst areas in America to have an outdoor stadium right next to the old outdoor stadium that was in one of the worst areas in America to have an outdoor stadium. 

 

Complete waste of money. 

 

Basically taxpayers paying the NFL a $1B fee to keep the bills in Buffalo. 

Pretty much sums it up.

 

This could and should have been done much differently. But hey, who knows! Maybe this State of the Art totally incredible and entirely adequate stadium will cause an Orchard Park boom! Besides, haven't you heard? Football was made to be played outside, even if the outside conditions completely cripple your team's strengths and devastate the surrounding communities.

[teef]

45 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Anything is an improvement over Highmark. I'm sure everything will be an improvement. My view is that if the outside esthetic is this generic I don't see the inside being anything special either. I would venture to guess is you have the  Bills hall of fame inside and the food vendors will be mostly the same as Highmark just improved. The game day experience probably isn't going to change much. I know most of you are there for the game and are happy with all the improvements. 

 

The problem is your average fan wants more then that to be drawn to go to a game. Why spend a few hundred dollars to go to a game when the experience is not much different than watching at home for free. Your average fan wants a better experience then what they get at home. It's why I brought up the Rogers Centre and it's upgrades. They are adding major amenities to make the game day experience better. Having an updated Highmark stadium isn't enough for the sports world we live in. 

 

I do understand that people on this board are satisfied with the team staying and having an improved stadium. You do have to understand that your casual sports fan isn't drawn by that. 

so...because you don't like the renderings of the new stadium, you assume nothing will really be that different?  these are just assumptions with no real basis at this point.  i'm not sure why you're taking that attitude towards it.  on top of that, you keep mentioning, "the average fan".  i'm not sure you get the average fan.  no average fan is going to shell out that much money for a game just to hang out at the stadium. maybe a few, but most people go to a game for the sake of taking in the energy at a live sporting even.   if a new restaurant in a stadium is what finally draws someone in, so be it.  what exactly do you want put into the stadium that you don't think they'll have.

 

don't have suck a skewed outlook on everything.  after all, you made the comment that you wouldn't go to a stadium if they sold genny light.

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What are you arguing? That players don’t consider the Buffalo climate?

 

Im so tired of this discussion. You know NFL players don’t want to play in Buffalo. It’s nothing against the fans or the city. They don’t want to play here.

 

 

 

I am not arguing it’s not a thing; I am saying it’s not a big a deal as you’re suggesting. Yes I think players consider Buffalo’s climate. They also consider its size, entertainment options, housing, schools, taxes, etc. all of which could negatively affect their decision. They’re still able to lure marquee players from the South from time to time. They’re able to re-sign their drafted players. 
 

[teef]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What are you arguing? That players don’t consider the Buffalo climate?

 

Im so tired of this discussion. You know NFL players don’t want to play in Buffalo. It’s nothing against the fans or the city. They don’t want to play here.

 

 

 

i think there are playing to play where ever the situation is best for them, (money, coaching, qb, et).  if buffalo establishes positives in those area, players will come.  it's just a job that's relatively temporary, and doesn't even last all year.  it has to be fairly easy to play in a place that you don't want to be in full time.

[Dick_Cheney]

3 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

And that's where you're wrong. It's not about playing here, they don't want to live here. Plan to build a dome that encompasses the city?

You're kidding yourself if top tier players don't consider the playing conditions here in Buffalo. Particularly offensive players, and particularly in a league where stats are treated as gospel. You think a killer WR or RB isn't not exactly stoked on having frozen hands and a ***** field for 25-30% of their season?

 

It's embarrassing that these things have to be complained about on an internet message board. Folks can say what they want, debate the merits of how Buffalo football should look, and apparently this whole thing is set in stone and we're all pissing in the wind here, but at the end of the day, Terry is doing the bare minimum to keep the team here for the time being.

 

That's his focus. What bothers me is that his focus is not doing everything possible to help the team succeed and achieve greatness. Football is a game of control. This open air situation gives up a lot of that, and it's doing so when there are multiple instances of weather and wind screwing this team in ways that other teams simply do not get screwed. It is conceding to a detrimental factor when absolutely everything to do otherwise should be being done. And to me that's weak. And it's concerning. It gives me a bit of an ominous feeling toward the future of the team, and for the city of Buffalo altogether.

 

I can only pray we get lucky even just once and are able to overcome these issues and get a Lombardi. If somehow we still don't, don't be surprised if there are moments in that season where playing conditions determined the outcome of a game that would have put us in a better position to do so. I love outdoor ball just as much as the old timers here, but I love to see the Bills win even more.

[Jrb1979]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

so...because you don't like the renderings of the new stadium, you assume nothing will really be that different?  these are just assumptions with no real basis at this point.  i'm not sure why you're taking that attitude towards it.  on top of that, you keep mentioning, "the average fan".  i'm not sure you get the average fan.  no average fan is going to shell out that much money for a game just to hang out at the stadium. maybe a few, but most people go to a game for the sake of taking in the energy at a live sporting even.   if a new restaurant in a stadium is what finally draws someone in, so be it.  what exactly do you want put into the stadium that you don't think they'll have.

 

don't have suck a skewed outlook on everything.  after all, you made the comment that you wouldn't go to a stadium if they sold genny light.

I don't have a skewed outlook on everything. Maybe football but hockey I don't.  

 

As far as the average fan goes, if they truly just went for the sake of taking in the energy of the game then none of these other stadiums would be adding in things to make the game day experience better. They would stick with concourses like they always have had. The stadium experience is big part of the game more so now then it ever has before. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

And to boot... It's a finicky microclimate. 

[teef]

4 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I don't have a skewed outlook on everything. Maybe football but hockey I don't.  

 

As far as the average fan goes, if they truly just went for the sake of taking in the energy of the game then none of these other stadiums would be adding in things to make the game day experience better. They would stick with concourses like they always have had. The stadium experience is big part of the game more so now then it ever has before. 

i agree about the stadium experience, but i think the people are demanding more because the tickets have become extremely expensive.  i may go to a stadium once just to check it out, but unless i'm into the game itself, i'm likely not spending the money.  i just think you've made certain assumptions like you tend to do before knowing all of the facts.   so, other than new concourses, what would you like to see that you don't think the new stadium will have?   i'm just trying to understand the angst outside of not having a dome.

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, Dick_Cheney said:

You're kidding yourself if top tier players don't consider the playing conditions here in Buffalo. Particularly offensive players, and particularly in a league where stats are treated as gospel. You think a killer WR or RB isn't not exactly stoked on having frozen hands and a ***** field for 25-30% of their season?

 

It's embarrassing that these things have to be complained about on an internet message board. Folks can say what they want, debate the merits of how Buffalo football should look, and apparently this whole thing is set in stone and we're all pissing in the wind here, but at the end of the day, Terry is doing the bare minimum to keep the team here for the time being.

 

That's his focus. What bothers me is that his focus is not doing everything possible to help the team succeed and achieve greatness. Football is a game of control. This open air situation gives up a lot of that, and it's doing so when there are multiple instances of weather and wind screwing this team in ways that other teams simply do not get screwed. It is conceding to a detrimental factor when absolutely everything to do otherwise should be being done. And to me that's weak. And it's concerning. It gives me a bit of an ominous feeling toward the future of the team, and for the city of Buffalo altogether.

 

I can only pray we get lucky even just once and are able to overcome these issues and get a Lombardi. If somehow we still don't, don't be surprised if there are moments in that season where playing conditions determined the outcome of a game that would have put us in a better position to do so. I love outdoor ball just as much as the old timers here, but I love to see the Bills win even more.

 

List of dome teams who've won the Super Bowl:

• 1999 St. Louis Rams
• 2006 Indianapolis Colts
• 2009 New Orleans Saints

The End

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Yea it is. Everything will be a significant upgrade. The concourses will be state of the art. 
 

But the players don’t care about the concourses. The fans want the best product on the field and an open air stadium puts the team at a disadvantage. Players don’t want to play in Buffalo weather. I don’t understand why we’re ok with open air.

I literally have no idea how this is a response to my post. I didn’t say the PLAYERS would care about the concourses. I said that the FANS will no doubt experience a significant upgrade there. Now, as regards to the players, I’m guessing the locker rooms will be somewhat of an upgrade as well, although I know they did a remodel to them in the last renovation project. 
 

Make sense? 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

31 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

And that's where you're wrong. It's not about playing here, they don't want to live here. Plan to build a dome that encompasses the city?

They also don’t want to live here. But that has nothing to do with the stadium.

 

Are you arguing players want to play in Buffalo’s weather? 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

I literally have no idea how this is a response to my post. I didn’t say the PLAYERS would care about the concourses. I said that the FANS will no doubt experience a significant upgrade there. Now, as regards to the players, I’m guessing the locker rooms will be somewhat of an upgrade as well, although I know they did a remodel to them in the last renovation project. 
 

Make sense? 

I also said it’ll be a major upgrade but no one cares about how pretty and wide the new concourses will be.

 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

List of dome teams who've won the Super Bowl:

• 1999 St. Louis Rams
• 2006 Indianapolis Colts
• 2009 New Orleans Saints

The End

Now do teams that have lake effect climates vs those that don’t.

[Jrb1979]

18 minutes ago, teef said:

i agree about the stadium experience, but i think the people are demanding more because the tickets have become extremely expensive.  i may go to a stadium once just to check it out, but unless i'm into the game itself, i'm likely not spending the money.  i just think you've made certain assumptions like you tend to do before knowing all of the facts.   so, other than new concourses, what would you like to see that you don't think the new stadium will have?   i'm just trying to understand the angst outside of not having a dome.

A good example is something similar to Progressive field in Cleveland. They have an area for kids to play, a patio and bar overlooking the field. On the main level each micro brewery has their own concession with different food at each one. Those are things I would like to see that I have feeling won't happen. 

 

Upgraded seats and a roof over most of the stands doesn't impress me. 

[JoPoy88]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I also said it’ll be a major upgrade but no one cares about how pretty and wide the new concourses will be.

 

 

 

 

Now do teams that have lake effect climates vs those that don’t.

First it was “players” don’t care about upgraded concourses, now it’s “no one.”

 

How many games in the past, oh, 15 years or so have been affected by severe lake effect snow events?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

A good example is something similar to Progressive field in Cleveland. They have an area for kids to play, a patio and bar overlooking the field. On the main level each micro brewery has their own concession with different food at each one. Those are things I would like to see that I have feeling won't happen. 

 

Upgraded seats and a roof over most of the stands doesn't impress me. 

I think most fans would be ok without those things. 

[teef]

10 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

A good example is something similar to Progressive field in Cleveland. They have an area for kids to play, a patio and bar overlooking the field. On the main level each micro brewery has their own concession with different food at each one. Those are things I would like to see that I have feeling won't happen. 

 

Upgraded seats and a roof over most of the stands doesn't impress me. 

i have to imagine we'll see something similar to that.  i'm just assuming though.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

First it was “players” don’t care about upgraded concourses, now it’s “no one.”

 

How many games in the past, oh, 15 years or so have been affected by severe lake effect snow events?

It’s not just the snow. In fact snow alone isn’t that bad to play in. It’s the wet, wind, cold, and snow all in one.

 

Severe snow events the last 15 years? I can think of 3 which is probably 3 too many.

 

Are you arguing players want to play in Buffalo’s climate? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PBF81]

16 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

IMO I think why many don't want a huge over the top stadium is the cost for tickets at that kind of stadium. Many would be priced out. 

 

It doesn't seem as if a lot of people noticed, but when the team put out their "survey" with the likely new prices, I couldn't help but notice that the regular face value price was now going to be more than what aftermarket prices are.  I followed aftermarket prices much of the season and noticed that generally speaking they weren't twice face value, until some of the more expensive tickets in the playoffs.  But the survey prices were over twice current face value, plus PSLs.   

 

We can talk about Indy, Chicago, Minnesota all we want, Cincinnati even, but all of those locals have a notably bigger corporate base.  

 

What's interesting is what a small percentage, relatively speaking, ticket sales are as a percentage of revenues.  I'm wondering if the team doesn't care if it sells out the seats.  I'm not sure what the individual ticket sale policy would be.  If I were on the business end of this on the team side, I'd be wondering how many tickets at over twice the existing prices, plus PSLs, I could sell, with that being compounded once Allen's no longer here.  Since presumably they're going forward with this, it only makes me wonder if they don't care about a full boat.  Pegula only cares about the PSLs since that's funding "his" share of this.  Even a lot of people here with seasons are complaining about those prices and saying that they're not going to pay them.  Some already talking about bailing on the current 12% hike for next year.  It leads me to conclude that they don't care and that it probably doesn't matter.  

 

As to the stadium tho, I think that a design like Lucas Oil Stadium would fit Orchard Park much better than a mirrored design that looks like it belongs in some schnitzy metro area or Sydney Australia or something.  

29 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

A good example is something similar to Progressive field in Cleveland. They have an area for kids to play, a patio and bar overlooking the field. On the main level each micro brewery has their own concession with different food at each one. Those are things I would like to see that I have feeling won't happen. 

 

Upgraded seats and a roof over most of the stands doesn't impress me. 

 

So fans leave their kids in a play area and go watch the game?  

 

[Saxum]

On 2/26/2023 at 10:28 AM, Einstein said:

 

This is where i’m at. Seems underwhelming for $1.4 billion or whatever the cost is at right now.

 

The Vikings got that taj mahal of a stadium for about the same price, albeit 5 or so years ago.

 

Axthally, the more I look at it the more I really dislike it. No real discernible features. Looks like a soccer stadium mixed with MetLife. 

 

"Axthally" it is not surprising you dislike something about the Bills.

They remind you of the nuns who used to hit your fingers with their rulers when you misspelled.