Stadium Renderings Part 2

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Speaking of the standard for NFL stadiums, the new standard for NFL stadiums now is a large multiple higher in quality and coolness and space than what we are getting. Sofi, for example, is 1.5 MILLION more sq feet than the new Bills stadium. Raiders new stadium is half a million sq feet larger. The Vikings stadium is nearly half a million sq feet larger. 

 

So my point was Tottenham could at least be the middle ground. Its still not as large as the new stadiums, but it least covers the seats.

instead we are getting a slightly upgraded design of a 20 year old stadium design. That is smaller than any new NFL stadium. And doesn't cover the seats.

 

.

For heaven’s sake dude. You’re all over the map on this topic. First, it’s a roof. Now, it’s square feet. Is it that you believe someone is stealing construction money? If so, who exactly? But, if you just desperately want to sit under a cover, there’ll literally be THOUSANDS of them in the new stadium. I’m sure you can find one to your liking. 
 

Go Bills 

Edited March 2, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[ExiledInIllinois]

"You'll get nothing and like it!"

😆 

 

[Einstein]

28 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

For heaven’s sake dude. You’re all over the map on this topic. First, it’s a roof. Now, it’s square feet. Is it that you believe someone is stealing construction money? If so, who exactly? But, if you just desperately want to sit under a cover, there’ll literally be THOUSANDS of them in the new stadium. I’m sure you can find one to your liking. 
 

Go Bills 

 

I’m not really sure you’re reading what i’m writing. 
 

I said, the newer stadiums and much superior. Larger, roof, etc. So the least we can do is at least get a semi-roof like Tottenham since we aren’t getting the whole shebang.

 

 

[cba fan]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes. Your movie ticket purchase is analogous to your game ticket purchase.

 

The movie theater doesn't ask you to pay for the building whether you go to movies or not, then pay to enter the building, and then pay for the movie ticket itself.

 

The comparison is just not even remotely close.

 

 

PSL's are for stadium recouping costs. “PSLs have always been intended by the NFL to be a funding mechanism for stadium construction or renovation” Stadium attorney Daniel Etna 

 

and... "All the PSL money is used for construction on a stadium" - Pegula Vice President Ron Raccuia

 

 

 

The Oakland PSL's also go the stadium. "The PSLs.... are supposed to help the city of Oakland and Alameda County repay the $200 million cost to expand the stadium, now known as McAfee Coliseum."

 

Then when they moved to Vegas, the PSL's also go the stadium: "The additional money from personal seating licenses has allowed the team to add additional features to the stadium, more suites, a field-level club, and enhanced internet connections for fans."

 

 

This is flat out not true.

 

"The PSL money can only be used to cover the team's expenses moving out of Cleveland."

 "Not one dime (of PSL money) will go to the Modell family." - Art Modell

 

 

No, that PSL money is going back to the NFL under the g4 loan Kroenke signed to borrow the billion dollars. 

 

 

No he doesn't! He took out a $1 billion dollar g4 loan from the NFL.

 

 

Your list has all been wrong!

 

 

You keep ignoring the fact that the Tpegs contribution is being negated by the PSL's. It's not coming from his pocket. It is not coming from ticket sales.

 

It is coming from PSL's that exist only to pay off stadium debt. That is not money coming out of Tpegs wallet. That is money coming from the fans. 

 

- The fans pay for the taxpayer part of the stadium

- The fans pay for the PSL's

- The fans pay for the tickets

 

The actual cash coming from Terry's pocket - irrespective of fans - is about 10%!

 

For example: Let's say I build a roller-skating rink for $100,000. And let's say $60,000 of that comes from taxpayers in the area. And $30,000 comes via a loan that stipulates that it will be paid off via the sale of PSL's that charge other people the right to buy tickets to my rink. How much came form my pocket?

 

The Buffalo news broke this down nicely:

 

"While the Buffalo Bills owners agreed to pay $550 million toward the cost of a new stadium in Orchard Park, that doesn’t mean the Pegulas will be dipping into their own pockets for all of it."

 

 

Pegula's actual expenditure on this stadium will probably be in the 10% to 15% range.

 

the psl money is Pegs. I don't know what is not clear about this.

 

The sports owners get the PSL money and then chooses to put it into the stadium by contract. Their money. If they choose not to put it into the stadium they must put more of their "other "money into the stadium. Shell game don't matter. It is owners' money one way or the other.

 

Pegs is contributing 300 mill plus 50 mill for Highmark demo. Pegs KEEPS all PSL money he acquires, regardless of how much or how little. State and county did not want to risk an iffy PSL WNY market to tie Pegs amount to put into the new stadium. They wanted hard guarantee and got it. 

 

Kroenke getting a loan from NFL is not public money either. His sofi is private financed 100%. No taxpayer is paying that loan back. Kroenke and his partners are.

 

 

[Einstein]

8 minutes ago, cba fan said:

the psl money is Pegs. I don't know what is not clear about this.

 

The sports owners get the PSL money and then chooses to put it into the stadium by contract. 

 

PSL money goes to stadiums. It was invented by Stanford in order to fund their new stadium. It’s the entire point of them. 

 

Every PSL ever used in the NFL has gone to the stadium. Mostly because g4 loans have PPL as collateral. Which is why the Rams PPL is going toward stadium debt too.

 

Without the taxfunder paid for stadium, the PSL would not even exist!

 

.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Einstein

[RiotAct]

If I’m TPegs, I use all the PSL money towards Dom Perrignon and caviar.

[SoCal Deek]

46 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I’m not really sure you’re reading what i’m writing. 
 

I said, the newer stadiums and much superior. Larger, roof, etc. So the least we can do is at least get a semi-roof like Tottenham since we aren’t getting the whole shebang.

 

 

So then you do believe someone is stealing the construction money? Well at least that’s settled.

[Mike in Horseheads]

The longer this thread goes on the worse people are trying to make the place sound. All these references to Totttenham  are laughable like people have been there or something. can't ya give the place a chance?

[cba fan]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

PSL money goes to stadiums. It was invented by Stanford in order to fund their new stadium. It’s the entire point of them. 

 

Every PSL ever used in the NFL has gone to the stadium. Mostly because g4 loans have PPL as collateral. Which is why the Rams PPL is going toward stadium debt too.

 

Without the taxfunder paid for stadium, the PSL would not even exist!

 

.

I get that. I do. You are right about PSL's genesis. I thought more teams directly kept some of the PSL money in past. And i am sorry for beating this topic into the ground.      But.....lol

 

This county, state, and Pegs, deal is very very different from others.

There is absolutely no language tying any of the PSL money to go to the stadium construction. Pegs is only one selling PSL's and keeps it all. Only language in it, if it is in it, is that Pegs is the only one allowed to sell PSL's. (Okland city actually marketed and sold PSL's for a while in Oakland) very weird imo but later sent it back to Team to market and sell.

There is only language stating Pegs must contribute 350 million to the deal. And get approved for the 250 million forgivable loan from NFL from its stadium fund.

 

If Pegs can't sell any PSL's or sells low amount it changes nothing for the deal. If Pegs sells 1 billion dollars or any amounts more of PSL's it changes nothing in the deal.

 

ty for the discourse and staying friendly🙃

19 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Any renderings of the troughs yet?

they need a larger🤣 overhang.................🤣

19 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by cba fan

[BillStime]

Even though it’s a soccer stadium - Indy gets it. 
 

This stadium is going downtown - looks far more dynamic including what appears to be a translucent overhang - unlike whatever cheap material they designed for us.

 

Can’t help but watch this video and not wonder what this could have done for downtown Buffalo and out of the freakn snow belt.

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

This is the story outta Chicago if anyone wants to see what's happening there:

 

[Figster]

On 3/1/2023 at 6:26 PM, SoCal Deek said:

 By the way, Tottenham is not covered because it’s NEW. Their old stadium (White Hart Lane) had covered seats. All English soccer stadiums have covered seats….even the really old rundown ones. It’s been a standard there for most of the past century. That’s most definitely NOT the standard for NFL stadiums. 

 

Just saying. 

The reason I brought Tottenham into the discussion is because its one of Populous's architectural crown jewels IMO. Also the type cable suspension used for the partial roof/ over hang is somewhat unique in design. It was brought into the discussion as a compliment to Populous. So why make it into something its not.

 

Did you know one of the hold ups on this project currently has to do with Buffalo trying to make sure as much of the construction as possible is done by local contractors?   

 

Page down one to watch amazing footage of another Stadium designed by Populous (Tottenham) over hang in high winds. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Figster

[BillStime]

Maybe the architects in the group can opine on the proposed roof in OP.... 

 

Why did the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium roof pulse during Storm Eunice?

 

 

[stevewin]

 

New Peace Bridge Renderings released

Edited March 3, 2023 by stevewin

[purple haze]

On 3/1/2023 at 12:45 PM, Jrb1979 said:

 

If you look around at most stadiums in all sports, it's less about the game and more about the amenities in the stadium. 

What amenities do you want that the new stadium won’t have?   The reason stadiums are less about the game is because teams are trying to attract non-fans or fans that have multiple other entertainment options in a large city.   Most Bills fans actually show up to watch a football  game.  The need in Nashville and Chicago or L.A. is not the need in Buffalo, Green Bay or Kansas City, etc.

 

 

 

 

[BillStime]

34 minutes ago, purple haze said:

What amenities do you want that the new stadium won’t have?   The reason stadiums are less about the game is because teams are trying to attract non-fans or fans that have multiple other entertainment options in a large city.   Most Bills fans actually show up to watch a football  game.  The need in Nashville and Chicago or L.A. is not the need in Buffalo, Green Bay or Kansas City, etc.

 

 

 

 

You left one thing off - tailgating 

 

The outcry from fans who cherish tailgating more than anything doomed a downtown stadium. 
 

 

[Jrb1979]

53 minutes ago, purple haze said:

What amenities do you want that the new stadium won’t have?   The reason stadiums are less about the game is because teams are trying to attract non-fans or fans that have multiple other entertainment options in a large city.   Most Bills fans actually show up to watch a football  game.  The need in Nashville and Chicago or L.A. is not the need in Buffalo, Green Bay or Kansas City, etc.

 

 

 

 

For now they show up but I have a feeling many are going to be priced out of the new stadium. There isn't enough hardcore fans to support the prices that come with a new stadium. They need to attract those non-fans. 

[Breakout Squad]

23 hours ago, BillStime said:

Even though it’s a soccer stadium - Indy gets it. 
 

This stadium is going downtown - looks far more dynamic including what appears to be a translucent overhang - unlike whatever cheap material they designed for us.

 

Can’t help but watch this video and not wonder what this could have done for downtown Buffalo and out of the freakn snow belt.

 

 

Yeah but it’s at least $1 Billion for a 20,000 seat stadium. With office space that would never fill in Buffalo. And I’m sure the apartments are outrageous in price. Just doesn’t seem to compare to our situation. 
 

Indy related tho, I wish the Bills would’ve built a stadium similar to the Colts stadium years ago. Would’ve been cheaper back then and enclosed for $1 Billion. 

[LeGOATski]

On 3/2/2023 at 6:38 PM, BillStime said:

Even though it’s a soccer stadium - Indy gets it. 
 

This stadium is going downtown - looks far more dynamic including what appears to be a translucent overhang - unlike whatever cheap material they designed for us.

 

Can’t help but watch this video and not wonder what this could have done for downtown Buffalo and out of the freakn snow belt.

 

 

It would've done nothing. It's not a "if you build it, they will come" situation. There needs to be actual demand first.

 

A lot of people in this thread seem to view Buffalo as a big city for some reason.

[purple haze]

8 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

For now they show up but I have a feeling many are going to be priced out of the new stadium. There isn't enough hardcore fans to support the prices that come with a new stadium. They need to attract those non-fans. 

I doubt there’s that many non-football fans to get in the area.  The fans that choose not to go to games now probably will when the drunk and fighting contingent is marginalized.  The stadium will be smaller too.  I don’t think crowds will be an issue.