Spencer Brown

[97bills]

28 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

No "guru" over here either.  I have watched football evolve for longer than I care to admit, and I see the O-Line being the Achilles heel of this team.

Last year I let a lot of smart fans on this board talk me out of putting big resources into the O-Line.  I think Beane and McDermott thought they

did the right thing too.  They were all wrong.

 

You take out Dawkins and Morse and the other 3 spots have been a revolving door of JAGs or less.  Morse, at any moment could be

out of the league, so what is really left?  They got away with a lot (and I'm hearing more of the same), Josh can make up for it.

I disagree.  Josh is getting older and a little heavier (he likes his food) and will get a little slower.  It's time, this year, to put in the effort in

the OL (even if it's a detriment to other areas) this year.

 

They need to put a core of 3-4 players who will play together for a number of years.  Period.

A late 20's FA with 2 drafted OL this year.  Draft a WR somewhere in the top 4 and get a bigger bodied RB for cheap in FA.

Plug the D the best you can and think about re-stocking some D next year.

 

I'm dying on this hill and if Beane keeps doing what he has been doing with the OL I will be disappointed.

You nailed it. We need guys that will be together for many years.  We saw Allen take to many big hits last year. That’s got to stop…. 

[bouds]

We need another Daryl Williams.  He was so good in 2020, not coincidence that Josh did so much damage from the pocket that year.

[ColoradoBills]

20 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

You aren’t wrong Bates is a really good left guard that is a mediocre right guard. He was forced to start there after the Saffold signing.

Saffold is terrible the second half of the year PFF grave him a 43 grade one of the worst grades for a starting guard in the league.

Browns injuries slowed him down but he was rough.

The Bills honestly need 2 -3 new linemen out of the off season.

 

Agree with Bates having to go back to LG where he belongs.  The other thing about Bates is the backup C stuff.  Any time that Morse is

out (even for a few plays) moving Bates to C and bringing in some horrible depth guy is not the answer.

Draft Morse's replacement this year.

 

Need a very good RG.  It would help Brown (I see him getting another year to start).  Brown is very good at run blocking and I do

think he has a chance to improve in pass protection.  Add one good depth guy (always injuries on the OL) preferably with right side

talent.

 

That's the 3 new guys.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think center is the least of the worries with Bates in place to succeed Morse when the time comes.........but RT is probably the second least.

 

I figured they would only get about 7 years out of Dawkins at LT because he is such a sloppy bodied player........and they will be lucky to get that one more season out of him.

 

The guard spots are more important than RT and both are in flux..........hopefully they sign a good guard, get a new LT prospect in round 1 and Dawkins can be moved inside and Brown does what all the free agent RT's on the market did(evolve from terrible to solid).

 

 

Agreed. Need to invest in two new interior line players right away. 

[JaCrispy]

6 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Long story short, if you were going to build a tackle in a lab, Brown is basically the perfect specimen. 
 

Doesn’t necessarily mean he is a finished product. He needs time and I think this year is make or break. 

Yes but can we take that chance?

[Saint Doug]

I agree that we need better OL play, but this to me sounds like another excuse. Last offseason, it was a pass rusher. All we needed was another pass rusher to beat the Chiefs. By our performance in the playoffs, I don’t even think we fixed that. Granted, Miller was injured, but our pass rush was nonexistent. What’s next year’s scapegoat going to be?

[PBF81]

8 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I hope the Bills have a great plan to solidify a weak offensive line.

 

Plan?  

 

Since when have we seen anything along the lines of an obvious plan?  

 

Anytime questions are asked, the answer is "Trust the Process."   A plan, that's something altogether different.  

[Charles Romes]

I was happy at least that he got a little better at staying on the field late in the year. 

[BADOLBILZ]

56 minutes ago, bouds said:

We need another Daryl Williams.  He was so good in 2020, not coincidence that Josh did so much damage from the pocket that year.

 

 

And while Daryl Williams was just average when moved to RG in 2021..........he was way better than Saffold was at LG in 2022..........and they cut Williams and paid all of the cap savings to Saffold who was then one of the worst performing starting OL in the entire league in 2022.     Yeah,  Williams overall cap figure was too high but the savings wasn't worth cutting him for RS and moving Bates off of LG.   

 

 

[1st&ten]

I hope Tommy Doyle & Ike Boettger can contribute next year & then sign 1 good free agent & draft 2 good lineman & maybe we can revamp the line.

[MrEpsYtown]

39 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yes but can we take that chance?

I don’t think they have much choice in the matter. They won’t be able to afford any upgrades in UFA (I don’t think there are upgrades). I also don’t think a rookie would be any more prepared than Brown. I think you let it ride this year. 

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I don’t think they have much choice in the matter. They won’t be able to afford any upgrades in UFA (I don’t think there are upgrades). I also don’t think a rookie would be any more prepared than Brown. I think you let it ride this year. 

So, I'm following Badolbilz' plan, ideally you'd grab a LT at 27 and kick Dawkins inside to guard. I'd be great with that if there were a potential starting LT worth taking when our turn in the first comes round. Is there such, because the best ones are going to be selected much earlier?

[Success]

58 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yes but can we take that chance?

 

We almost have to, imo.  The "big" investments - in terms of being a higher round pick, or FA acquisition - should be at guard.  We can bring in competition, but it would likely be a bargain FA.  

 

I kind of see the development of Brown as being one of the keys to the Bills' success in the next 5-7 years.  We need a few younger guys to take that "next step."  Some, it's easy to see it happening - Groot, Shakir, Elam.  Others, like Epenesa and Brown, are much less certain.  

[MrEpsYtown]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

So, I'm following Badolbilz' plan, ideally you'd grab a LT at 27 and kick Dawkins inside to guard. I'd be great with that if there were a potential starting LT worth taking when our turn in the first comes round. Is there such, because the best ones are going to be selected much earlier?

I like Broderick Jones, I know some people don’t. But I just really like the upside play. He is already gone in a lot of mocks, but I thibk there is a chance he falls a bit. I will add that I think he is going to have a really good combine. Paris Johnson is probably the best LT in the draft. I love Pete Skoronski, but I think he’s a guard. 

 

If Jones is there, I would consider taking him and moving Dion. I don’t think there is anyone else who could be there, who I would make that move for. 
 

I definitely like taking a round 2-4 type guy, maybe Bergeron, Mauch, or Steen, guys who can play tackle but may be guards in the NFL. But I am not sure I would be willing to go OT round 1 unless its for Jones or Johnson who are both probably way gone. 

[Success]

Side note:  there is always an early "run" on certain positions in the draft.  Sometimes WR, sometimes QB, edge rushers, etc.

 

I'm really hoping it's not O-linemen this year.  I feel like there has been a lot of chatter about how that is a top need for a lot of teams this year.  That's the one thing I do not want to see on draft day.

 

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

Side note:  there is always an early "run" on certain positions in the draft.  Sometimes WR, sometimes QB, edge rushers, etc.

 

I'm really hoping it's not O-linemen this year.  I feel like there has been a lot of chatter about how that is a top need for a lot of teams this year.  That's the one thing I do not want to see on draft day.

 

My very early gut tells me that all the DL, OL and WRs will be gone by pick 27. I think our only hope is that a bunch of quarterbacks go. If they don’t, our pick 27 essentially has the value of a second rounder

[Thurman#1]

Wow, thanks for all the new info, OP.

 

None of us know how much the back surgery affected him. The Bills have a much better idea, but nobody has a perfectly clear idea in cases like this. The Bills doctors have talked to the FO.

 

Nobody knows, but they have much more info than we do. They'd likely want to upgrade the swing tackle at the very least, and perhaps give him some competition.

 

Nothing much to say here.

[3rdand12]

10 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I agree that they need competition for Brown, but the fact that he missed training last offseason due to his back and missed almost all training camp, as well, is an easy explanation for no development.  Now, that isn’t to say that we know he’ll improve if healthy, but I think there is a reason to believe he might.  Still, as you said, they need another OT in case he doesn’t.  

They need another OT regardless. if they get one early in the draft all the better.

 I have love for Spencer, but perhaps we can do better at Starting RT

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I don’t think they have much choice in the matter. They won’t be able to afford any upgrades in UFA (I don’t think there are upgrades). I also don’t think a rookie would be any more prepared than Brown. I think you let it ride this year. 

still need to draft for guard/ center. Perhaps a starting RG.
But RT , if there should be on the table

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

So, I'm following Badolbilz' plan, ideally you'd grab a LT at 27 and kick Dawkins inside to guard. I'd be great with that if there were a potential starting LT worth taking when our turn in the first comes round. Is there such, because the best ones are going to be selected much earlier?

Hows Dion going to feel about that ?

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And while Daryl Williams was just average when moved to RG in 2021..........he was way better than Saffold was at LG in 2022..........and they cut Williams and paid all of the cap savings to Saffold who was then one of the worst performing starting OL in the entire league in 2022.     Yeah,  Williams overall cap figure was too high but the savings wasn't worth cutting him for RS and moving Bates off of LG.   

 

That's how Beane's been stocking the OL since he's been here.  

[Billy Claude]

9 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

it’s a composite score that molds together size, speed, strength as a projection at his position. 

Just to add, Spencer Brown’s 3 cone drill was better than Zay McKenzie’s at 6-8, 311. That’s a short area agility and change of direction score. 

 

 

Not saying that Spencer Brown is not a good athlete at 311 but wasn't this the year that the combine was canceled and therefore all these numbers were essentially self-reported.   As I remember, there were a lot of amazing RAS numbers that year.