Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 I recall an NPR story/interview with a retired gentleman (may have been CIA, haven't been able to find a link) who said they/he used it quite a bit in Vietnam. The long and the short of it was that you didn't really get much out of a prisoner, and the longer the torture continues, the less usefull they become (for both obvious and not-so-obvious reasons). I'm sure their are actual percentages that we will never see. 344553[/snapback] Another thing to consider is what kind of "torture". Sleep deprivation and pulling out one's fingernails are both considered torture...but I'd wager that overall sleep deprivation is MUCH more effective. But as for toture itself...ideally, no one shouldn't have to resort to it. As a practical matter...it has been and always will be an inescapable reality of the human experience. I'm pretty much resigned to its occurrence.
BillsFanNC Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Lastly, anyone who thinks that the "Liberal" mantra is "Be nice to the TERRORISTS, and they will be nice to us" is a complete idiot. 344495[/snapback] Mindset, not mantra. Some libs are guilty, not all.
KD in CA Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 3. Is there any reason to believe that prisoner abuse/torture/whatever may actually have a negative impact on how the US is viewed globally? If the left wingers repeat it ad nauseam for months on end every time some prisoner stubs his toe? Yes, I'm sure it will have a significant negative impact on how the US is viewed globally. That's probably why people are wondering why the media can’t go a week without putting some bullsh-- ‘torture’ story on the front page that only serves to incite our enemies.
Ghost of BiB Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 ...or more like, it is easier to just make ridiculous statements in hopes that people will blindly believe them. No need to actually back them up with facts.* I am still waiting on the "Iraq never had WMD's" thingy from him. Just remember, facts are irrelevant when you have an agenda. *MoveOn.org rule #7. 344406[/snapback] I thought (might have to go back and look) that he finished his lies and misdeeds statement with a resound "Facts Suck". I simply wanted to be enlightened, as I have no understand of national policy and especially none concerning anything related to any of the WMD issues. All my opinions on anything are obviously driven by my blind allegiance to anything coming out of the right wing inspired hate media.
KRC Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 I thought (might have to go back and look) that he finished his lies and misdeeds statement with a resound "Facts Suck". I simply wanted to be enlightened, as I have no understand of national policy and especially none concerning anything related to any of the WMD issues. All my opinions on anything are obviously driven by my blind allegiance to anything coming out of the right wing inspired hate media. 344671[/snapback] Well, we all know that your knowledge of national security issues is based strictly on what you hear from Rush Limaugh.
Ghost of BiB Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Speaking of PTR, anyone noticed how quick he disappears? Starts the thread then walks. What's wrong with a little discourse? I'm still waiting for my deeply thought enlightment. Reading Ted Coppell transcripts to gain some more expertise enabling you to look down your nose at all of us blind minions?
VABills Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Speaking of PTR, anyone noticed how quick he disappears? Starts the thread then walks. What's wrong with a little discourse? I'm still waiting for my deeply thought enlightment. Reading Ted Coppell transcripts to gain some more expertise enabling you to look down your nose at all of us blind minions? 344774[/snapback] Kind of like Petrino, which damn we haven't seen in a while. Maybe he is looking for his gerbil again.
TheMadCap Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Here's a quote from that article: "Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," Amnesty Secretary General Irene Khan said as the London-based group issued a 308-page annual report that accused the United States of shirking its responsibility to set the bar for human rights protections. The use of the term gulag refers to the extensive system of prison camps in the former Soviet Union, many in remote regions of Siberia and specifically designed to hold political prisoners. The Soviets took over the system from the czarist government and expanded it after the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. Untold thousands of prisoners of the so-called gulags died from hunger, cold, harsh treatment and overwork. Yeah, that's an accurate comparison there. Good job Irene....
Ghost of BiB Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Kind of like Petrino, which damn we haven't seen in a while. Maybe he is looking for his gerbil again. 344775[/snapback] Now, that is cruel. He might be a wuss, not by his beliefs, but by his willingness to express them and then walk away for three months because someone disagrees with him, but I've never thought of him as a gerbil fag. Just a pasty lawn gnome. At least you are a dwarf with a tan.
VABills Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Now, that is cruel. He might be a wuss, not by his beliefs, but by his willingness to express them and then walk away for three months because someone disagrees with him, but I've never thought of him as a gerbil fag. Just a pasty lawn gnome. At least you are a dwarf with a tan. 344795[/snapback] Not lately. Hasn't been warm enough to get out playing golf much.
Ghost of BiB Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Here's a quote from that article: "Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," Amnesty Secretary General Irene Khan said as the London-based group issued a 308-page annual report that accused the United States of shirking its responsibility to set the bar for human rights protections. The use of the term gulag refers to the extensive system of prison camps in the former Soviet Union, many in remote regions of Siberia and specifically designed to hold political prisoners. The Soviets took over the system from the czarist government and expanded it after the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. Untold thousands of prisoners of the so-called gulags died from hunger, cold, harsh treatment and overwork. Yeah, that's an accurate comparison there. Good job Irene.... 344790[/snapback] (shakes his head) Yeah, that's my post.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Here's a quote from that article: "Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," Amnesty Secretary General Irene Khan said as the London-based group issued a 308-page annual report that accused the United States of shirking its responsibility to set the bar for human rights protections. The use of the term gulag refers to the extensive system of prison camps in the former Soviet Union, many in remote regions of Siberia and specifically designed to hold political prisoners. The Soviets took over the system from the czarist government and expanded it after the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. Untold thousands of prisoners of the so-called gulags died from hunger, cold, harsh treatment and overwork. Yeah, that's an accurate comparison there. Good job Irene.... 344790[/snapback] I've just read a few books on the Gulags (currently working my way through The Gulag Archipeligo). That's a pretty damned !@#$ing ignorant comparison to make... ...though coming from AI, it doesn't surprise me much. I've always considered them idiots - well meaning, perhaps, but idiots nontheless.
Ghost of BiB Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 I've just read a few books on the Gulags (currently working my way through The Gulag Archipeligo). That's a pretty damned !@#$ing ignorant comparison to make... ...though coming from AI, it doesn't surprise me much. I've always considered them idiots - well meaning, perhaps, but idiots nontheless. 344809[/snapback] Coming from an idiot...you would know.
TheMadCap Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 I've just read a few books on the Gulags (currently working my way through The Gulag Archipeligo). That's a pretty damned !@#$ing ignorant comparison to make... ...though coming from AI, it doesn't surprise me much. I've always considered them idiots - well meaning, perhaps, but idiots nontheless. 344809[/snapback] That was pretty much my point too...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 25, 2005 Author Posted May 25, 2005 I'm not defending terrorists. I'm not defending anything that they did that got them sent to Gitmo. Let's just assume that every single one of the detainees there is the worst of the worst. Every single one of them deserves to be there. 1. What is the USA's obligation to hold itself to a higher set of standards than how these people, and how other people/governments treat their own prisoners, or their own people, or innocent civilians? People on this board are very quick to shoot down the "They do it, so it's OK for us to do it" arguement in other debates...why should it apply here? 2. Does the use of "torture" (not very easily defined if you really think about it) actually lead to usefull intelligence (historically), or are they just giving up anything that pops into their heads to stop the torture. Has torture/prisoner abuse ever been a usefull tool? 3. Is there any reason to believe that prisoner abuse/torture/whatever may actually have a negative impact on how the US is viewed globally? If we are to believe that the Bush foreign policy plans for the mid-east include the spread of Democracy and Freedom, how does any prisoner abuse, justified in the eyes of the US or not, help to spread these ideals? Extra credit if you leave "Who the !@#$ cares" out of your response. Lastly, anyone who thinks that the "Liberal" mantra is "Be nice to the TERRORISTS, and they will be nice to us" is a complete idiot. 344495[/snapback] Thanks for trying to explain things for me, but it's pointless. Any issue that takes more than one sentance to explain is lost on them. If it ain't black/white, yes/no, their eyes glaze over, then they just go back to watching Fox News or NASCAR. PTR
PromoTheRobot Posted May 25, 2005 Author Posted May 25, 2005 Speaking of PTR, anyone noticed how quick he disappears? Starts the thread then walks. What's wrong with a little discourse? I'm still waiting for my deeply thought enlightment. Reading Ted Coppell transcripts to gain some more expertise enabling you to look down your nose at all of us blind minions? 344774[/snapback] Unlike you I have a job and can't spend 18 hours a day arguing with people who only speak in one-sylable words. But I would be happy to debate you on any topic. As long as we stick to documented facts, not something you heard on Savage Nation or Sean Hannity. PTR
Ghost of BiB Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Thanks for trying to explain things for me, but it's pointless. Any issue that takes more than one sentance to explain is lost on them. If it ain't black/white, yes/no, their eyes glaze over, then they just go back to watching Fox News or NASCAR. PTR 344842[/snapback] That the best you can do? I know the shades of grey more than most people. I will look you directly in the eyes when i talk, and my eyes are clear. I don't watch TV news. But, I do enjoy NASCAR. Give you that one. Thank you for belittling a few million people. You like basketball? I think it sucks.
Ghost of BiB Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Unlike you I have a job and can't spend 18 hours a day arguing with people who only speak in one-sylable words. But I would be happy to debate you on any topic. As long as we stick to documented facts, not something you heard on Savage Nation or Sean Hannity. PTR 344844[/snapback] Yes, you stupid prick. I have a job.
VABills Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 That the best you can do? I know the shades of grey more than most people. I will look you directly in the eyes when i talk, and my eyes are clear. I don't watch TV news. But, I do enjoy NASCAR. Give you that one. Thank you for belittling a few million people. You like basketball? I think it sucks. 344845[/snapback] Yeah you do have that fault don't you? I try not to hold it against you too much.
Ghost of BiB Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Yeah you do have that fault don't you? I try not to hold it against you too much. 344853[/snapback] And you have some morbid fascination with hitting little white balls with expensive sticks. Whatever. At least we can agree on Buffy.
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